Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #10

[Kimster]

http://g.co/maps/jbnsq

Link for Anstead. Hope this one works


Edit. Yes. Seems to work

Yes, it does!

 

[Kimster]

There seems to be a lot of open space around there where one could put a body and the remains not be found for a long time. By putting her in a waterway, it seems to me either they were in a big hurry or wanted her to be found, especially if the waterway is often used by boats/canoes.

 

[laserdisc10]

Ok, Kimster. If you minimise/remove the stuff on the left hand side of that page, it will clear the way for you to see what I've described a few posts up, namely Anstead itself as it shows on Google, with the little red tear-drop thing. Then, still going left, you'll see Tyolum Scout Camp.

Then, if you zoom in a bit, you'll get a better view of the mouth of Kholo Creek where it meets the Brisbane River. Mouth of Kholo Creek is close to where ABC's remains were discovered

and, it's the suburb of Anstead where the witness claims to have seen two four wheel vehicles travelling basically in convoy (one with lights dimmed) at approx. 4 a.m. the morning ABC was reported by her spouse to be missing (he reported this at approx. 7 to 7.30 a.m. apparently, although reports differ).

He reportedly claimed to police that he'd last seen ABC at 10 p.m. the previous night as she watched tv and just before he retired for the night. Various reports state she may have 'gone for a walk' early the next morning

That's where the discrepancies arise, for * if * the husband's car was one of those claimed as sighted by the witness (at 4 a.m. and 'within 2 kilometres' of where his wife's body was discovered 11 days later) it implies he did not spend the entire night asleep

Members of Websleuths who are local are very familiar with the area and know almost the precise spot where the witness claims to have seen the two four wheel vehicles. They are able to pinpoint that location far more accurately than simply the suburb of Anstead as shown in the Google map linked to above. Maybe they will be able to configure a map to show the spot where the two vehicles were seen. Hopefully they will when they come back online, because it would be very helpful for those of us who are not familiar with that area, although I'll keep looking

 

[Paradox11]

Morning.

I’m probably one of the people who broke the TOS last night, and I apologise for that. :blushing:

I left at about 8pm and maveric1 was hinting that he knew who owned the blue car and suggested we try and figure it out.

 

[laserdisc10]

There seems to be a lot of open space around there where one could put a body and the remains not be found for a long time. By putting her in a waterway, it seems to me either they were in a big hurry or wanted her to be found, especially if the waterway is often used by boats/canoes.

Kimster, there are many differing opinions as to where ABC's remains were initially placed

A local politician, for example, had this to say:

If Mrs Baden-Clay's body had been dumped further upstream in Kholo Creek closer to the Tyamolum Scout Camp, it is likely to have remained trapped and concealed beneath fallen trees which line the creek bank following the devastating January 2011 Brisbane River flood

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/20...uld-never.html

He had more to say, as can be read at the above link


He's not alone in suspecting ABC's remains were placed in very thick bush in the hope they would never be recovered or, if they were, it would not be for considerable time. In short, there are those who believe it was intended by the killer/s that ABC's remains should not be found

It's believed by many that this would have been the case if not for unseasonal heavy rains a week or so after ABC was killed. It's believed by some that these heavy rains carried ABC's remains into tributaries of Kholo Creek, which in turn washed her into Kholo Creek itself, finally depositing ABC's remains close to the mouth of Kholo Creek, where it joins the larger Brisbane River

Others suspect/believe that ABC was first left in the Tyolum Scout Camp (16 hectares approx. in size) and may later have been moved. It's hoped toxicology and forensics will clarify this

Maps of the region show the distance between ABC's home and the spot where she was found and this disinclines people to believe she walked that distance, beginning after 10 a.m. (which is when her spouse claimed he last saw her, reportedly)

If she didn't walk, did she drive to where her body was eventually discovered? Well, if she did drive - how did her car make its way back to her home?

"Insp Gundry confirmed that when Ms Baden-Clay was declared missing, her car was still on the family property."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226335681703



Way back at the beginning, early Websleuths posts prove to be very interesting and some would say, well-informed. This one, for example, from a poster ID, 'Rexo' on April 29th 2012

The weir is not far from my house at Karana Downs. The water there is quite clear. Reckon someone fishing there might have spotted her underwater because the Police efforts were pretty much concentrated to Brookfield area, though I did suggest they check out at Scout Camp at Karana Downs due to his scouting connections. I had only been thinking this morning that he must have driven out our way because when screams broke out in the hot zone, the first thing he would want to do is bundle her into the car and get the hell out of there. Hence liklihood of finding body in hot zone = very low. He would then arrive at intersection of Rafting Creek and Moggill Roads and logically would turn right towards isolated areas rather than left towards city and congested areas

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169529&page=14


and the response immediately beneath it, from Indogwetrust:

Without revealing the identity of the 'elder' I referred to earlier in the post. What was frustrating was this person was born and bred here and had abundant local knowledge and experience in particular community services, yet the police did not avail themsleves of his expertise, not since the last time I spoke to him a couple of days ago. Frustrating and so disappointing.

I meant to add good point Rexo re: which direction someone would have turned from the intersection, makes so much sense!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169529&page=14


Websleuthers have engaged in logical speculation almost all the way through. Hit and miss at times, but only to be expected considering a very close-mouthed media and investigators

 

[laserdisc10]

Just after six in the morning (Saturday) and still nothing about Allison in the Courier Mail headlines or even the '10 most popular' topics

Maybe a news ban because arrests are imminent?

 

[Kimster]

Now I'm confused. If her remains were laid up river where there was hope she would never be found and moved down river because of the rains, then wouldn't the location of the two vehicles be in the wrong spot? :waitasec: Because they would be too far down stream?

 

[JK673]

Now I'm confused. If her remains were laid up river where there was hope she would never be found and moved down river because of the rains, then wouldn't the location of the two vehicles be in the wrong spot? :waitasec: Because they would be too far down stream?

I just tried to post but it didnt work. MOO: i do not think she was taken to scout camp, maybe dumped where she was found, car stopped and thrown over etc. Have a look at the place she was found using google maps in satellite version and you can see the road. I think that is where the two cars were seen.

 

[Greg]

Here is a Google map of Anstead, a suburb of Brisbane. It covers the area said to be the location of where the witness saw the two 4 x wheel drives. And within the same location, you can see the Tyolum Scout Camp and also (if you zoom in) Kholo Creek where it joins the Brisbane River (up in top left-hand corner)

Google Maps


I'll keep looking to see if I can find something more definitive re: the witness sighting in relation to where ABC's remains were discovered

DAMN that Anstead be a big area!!!

 

[laserdisc10]

Now I'm confused. If her remains were laid up river where there was hope she would never be found and moved down river because of the rains, then wouldn't the location of the two vehicles be in the wrong spot? :waitasec: Because they would be too far down stream?

We need the locals, Kimster Hopefully they'll be back soon

It's been claimed the witness saw the two four-wheels 'within 2 kilometres' of where ABC's remains were discovered. But of course, those vehicles could have been returning from, or going to, the place where the body may have originally been placed when they were spotted by the witness

Then there are those who believe (as with the local politician Paul Tully linked above) that the original site was flooded and carried ABC's remains down to the mouth approx. of Kholo Creek

We don't know how much information the police have or how many witness sightings they have under their belt. It may be that the witness reported by the media told police that several other vehicles were in the vicinity at the time. The drivers of those other vehicles may not have come forward for reasons of their own. Police may have released information about one witness in order to encourage others to come forth. Those other witnesses of course may have reasons of their own for hanging-back (they may have been engaged in illegal activities, for instance, or they could have been up to extra-marital hanky panky, etc.)

 

[Blonde]

I think this is GBC in the photo on the left, in happier times.


http://smartbook.century21.com.au/pav/7080#/page78552

 

[Soul range]

I can't find an online link sorry, however the Courier Mail has a small article today.
It is about the Dickies thanking everyone for the sympathy cards and support. They say they have been given free tickets for entry and rides to the Brookfield show and will be taking the children this weekend.

I wonder if they know GBC took them last night? It also shows he didn't have to take them to make sure they didn't miss out on going when he would have known full well their Grandparents were taking them today. Obviously an opportunity for him to garner support and sympathy in the community. IMO

In some ways I think it is a shame that the whole of Brisbane can read that the children will be at the show this weekend. Poor Dickies may have thought they were just making conversation with the journalist and then there it is in print.

 

[pudwink]

Hi laser, thanks for posting the map. Before I found WS and was frantically doing my own crappiola version of sleuthing in the Gregory's, I wondered about the bridge on Wirraburra? Rd. Could a body potentially end up where ABC's body was found, if put into the creek from there? (with all the heavy rain and all) I'm on the north side of Brissy and not familiar at all with the Brookfied/Anstead area. Do you know which part of the Mt.Crosby Rd the two cars were seen? Initially I thought the scout camp would be the place where POI would leave ABC but wondered if the scout camp land included the area near Wirraburra Rd/Bridge...sorry so many questions.The more time that passes the more deflated I feel that an arrest is going to be made anytime soon

 

[Candarella]

I can't find an online link sorry, however the Courier Mail has a small article today.
It is about the Dickies thanking everyone for the sympathy cards and support. They say they have been given free tickets for entry and rides to the Brookfield show and will be taking the children this weekend.

I wonder if they know GBC took them last night? It also shows he didn't have to take them to make sure they didn't miss out on going when he would have known full well their Grandparents were taking them today. Obviously an opportunity for him to garner support and sympathy in the community. IMO

In some ways I think it is a shame that the whole of Brisbane can read that the children will be at the show this weekend. Poor Dickies may have thought they were just making conversation with the journalist and then there it is in print.

Damn good point...Why the hell would he have been there yesterday knowing damn well how the majority feel about him and to top it all knowing that the grandparents were taking the kids this weekend. So he couldnt use the excuse of doing it for the kids....I dont know hey...he sure is hell is playing mind games!:banghead:

 

[CJ60]

Here is a link to the article where the police were searching Bunya St and Wirrabarra Rd.

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...ents-in-the-area/story-e6frfkvr-1226345259099


Here is the link saying cars were seen at Anstead.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8468149/witness-comes-forward-in-baden-clay-case

If you Google Map Wirrabarra Rd, Anstead QLD, a map will come up showing Bunya, Wirrabarra, Mt Crosby Rd, Kholo Creek Crossing and Anstead.

(This is Kholo Creek Crossing - not Kholo Bridge, which is much further up river)


IMO Allison would have been left upstream and not at the bridge. It would be far too risky to throw anyone off the bridge, or even pull in to the siding and place a body under the bridge. If she was left near one of the dry creek beds, she may never have been found- if it had not rained. There is a lot of activity up Bunya St - Scout Camp, Laser Skirmish and houses - but Wirrabarra is far more isolated and hilly. And those dry creeks become torrents in heavy rain.
Canoeists wouldn't be up that far - not enough water- but they use the Brisbane River, or the mouth of Kholo Creek where it meets the river.

The swirling of water under the bridge pylons may have brought her to rest there - rather than her body be carried out into the river itself. Another poster explained this earlier. It is a miracle her body was found, IMO!

Hope this helps!

 

[Lu-Lu]

I'm not local to Anstead, but I live in Brisbane. And I love nearmap.

Try this link, I've put a place marker in... http://www.nearmap.com/?q=Zoom_Here@-27.526266,152.847301&ll=-27.526098,152.847301&z=20&t=h&nmd=20091102

It will take you to the home page first, scroll down and check the box that you agree to the terms, and then the last link person use will turn from grey to orange. Click that to go to the map. Have a look at the area on different dates. Sept 19th, 2011 and the area is very dry, trees and bushes have less foliage so you can see the dirt tracks that are frequently used. Change the date to Jan 14th 2011, during our floods last year, and you can see that the area is very affected by flood water. The path of Kholo Creek becomes more obvious.

Have a look at this place marker on the dates of 21 Aug,2010 & June 8, 2010. Is this scout stuff? There are a couple of cars there. http://www.nearmap.com/?q=Scout_Stuff%3F@-27.5268686,152.8466041&ll=-27.526785,152.846604&z=21&t=h&nmd=20100821

 

[laserdisc10]

Hi laser, thanks for posting the map. Before I found WS and was frantically doing my own crappiola version of sleuthing in the Gregory's, I wondered about the bridge on Wirraburra? Rd. Could a body potentially end up where ABC's body was found, if put into the creek from there? (with all the heavy rain and all) I'm on the north side of Brissy and not familiar at all with the Brookfied/Anstead area. Do you know which part of the Mt.Crosby Rd the two cars were seen? Initially I thought the scout camp would be the place where POI would leave ABC but wondered if the scout camp land included the area near Wirraburra Rd/Bridge...sorry so many questions.The more time that passes the more deflated I feel that an arrest is going to be made anytime soon

I'm in the same boat as yourself, Pudwink, as far as not having local knowledge of the area

However, the police have a lot of resources at their disposal. They'll have experts examining flora and fora from ABC's remains and these will be traced to sources (for example and least ickky, there would be minute debris in hair and clothing which could provide a wealth of information). They'll be able to find out about water levels and currents, etc. Almost the moment ABC's remains were found, they had forensics taking samples from vegetation in the area, etc. and this would have continued at all points deemed probable

They'll make an arrest, don't worry. Someone killed Allison Dickie. The police had reasons to spring into action as swiftly as they did. The public will not allow her murder to go unanswered and the police know it. In the meantime, Allison's killer/s can keep on losing weight and sweating their way through their days and nights

 

[CJ60]

Hi laser, thanks for posting the map. Before I found WS and was frantically doing my own crappiola version of sleuthing in the Gregory's, I wondered about the bridge on Wirraburra? Rd. Could a body potentially end up where ABC's body was found, if put into the creek from there? (with all the heavy rain and all) I'm on the north side of Brissy and not familiar at all with the Brookfied/Anstead area. Do you know which part of the Mt.Crosby Rd the two cars were seen? Initially I thought the scout camp would be the place where POI would leave ABC but wondered if the scout camp land included the area near Wirraburra Rd/Bridge...sorry so many questions.The more time that passes the more deflated I feel that an arrest is going to be made anytime soon

Yes - Wirrabarra Rd!

 

[Cardio381]

Yes reports and statements gathered by police IRT a case are not wholly released in the advent of forthecoming information to corroborate individual reports ie: one story may support another without the originators collaborating their stories through media releases therefore giving both versions authenticity via their similarity in content without overtly feeding off each other.
The Media IRT the time and volume of information given to a story too has its ebbs and flows influenced by
#1: Sales
#2: Relevance
#3: Result for public
#4: Legalities
The dynamics of information flow for public information and "Justice" are complex especially when the truth is being sought when the perpetrator is not cooperating with us in delivering it.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Yes reports and statements gathered by police IRT a case are not wholly released in the advent of forthecoming information to corroborate individual reports ie: one story may support another without the originators collaborating their stories through media releases therefore giving both versions authenticity via their similarity in content without overtly feeding off each other.
The Media IRT the time and volume of information given to a story too has its ebbs and flows influenced by
#1: Sales
#2: Relevance
#3: Result for public
#4: Legalities
The dynamics of information flow for public information and "Justice" are complex especially when the truth is being sought when the perpetrator is not cooperating with us in delivering it.

Sorry...IRT?