Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

[HN man]

I really don't think anyone could have anticipated the immense amount of nationwide media interest in this case, least of all GBC. The pressure must be enormous on those associated with the crime.

 

[Jaguar88]

HN_man is quite correct. QC = SC. I think the Republican movement was to blame for the change ...

GBC has hired himself a 1st class brief (or his solicitor has).

Yep, QCs, knighthoods disappeared in QLD around the same time

 

[JK673]

I think hiring legal eagles the way he has is standard practice amongst those with the funds to do so, particularly when you're going to be the first person the police will suspect. My cousin is a senior partner for probably the most prestigious law firm in Australia and he said to me never talk to the police except to give your name, address and date of birth and call him immediately (this was back in my protest days). SO GBC's actions in this regard seem reasonable to me.

When you are brought in for questioning maybe, not before you call the police to report a missing person.......

 

[Hawkins]

Mr Baden Clay is under no obligation to provide a statement. If he is to be charged with an offence then it is up to the Crown to prove each element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. It is not the job of either he or his lawyers to disprove anything. He does not have to prove, or even comment on, where he was or what he was doing at any time. If he is to eventually appear in court it is highly unlikely that he will take the witness stand to give evidence. If any of these realities and rights appear to the wider public to be a expression of a consciousness of guilt then it is a good thing that he would be tried by only twelve people, all of whom will be required to objectively assess the evidence tested in court, and not the evidence alleged by media or public speculation. As to how a lawyer can represent a person who makes admissions in relation to aspects of an offence, that is the essence of the lawyer's role. The Crown can accuse a citizen of a crime and then utilise the entire resources of the State to try and convict them. A single citizen, regardless of their status, has nothing like this power. Often times a person will be accused by police and the Crown of either the wrong offence, or of too many counts, and it is the job of the defence lawyers to make sure that this is brought to light. But lawyers do not generally have hundreds of searchers, forensic services on call, a compliant media and the weight of public opinion behind them. They can only use the law, their intellect and cross-examination skill to stand between a citizen and the State. Each year many people in Qld are accused of offences they did not commit or of the wrong offences. Rape is a common charge which is brought against the innocent. Put yourself in the position of such a person and ask what sort of lawyer you would then want standing between you and the State, plus a media calling for your blood.

 

[Hawkins]

If the QPS were close to an arrest then they would simply carry out the arrest, not proclaim it in the media.

 

[Caviar]

Happy Mothers Day to all fellow mums out there. I awoke to the wonderful news that an arrest looks imminent....bloody marvellous. I will save my final rejoicing for the life sentence.

I hope the girls are surrounded my grand maternal love today...thinking of them.

Just caught up reading....cannot believe my post about how often strangulation occurs (without death) in an abusive relationship turned into some sordid threesome...what the hell?! Totally did not suggest this!

Talking about abusive relationships, when i came home feeling beautiful with a lovely new hair do, my ex partner started world war 3. He much preferred me looking dowdy. A new hair do had to mean a new man and his jealousy was insane.

If GBC was like my ex, insecure and controlling, the hair do may have been enough to spark a violent rage. IMO.

 

[Keyboredom]

Hmmm, think I'd rather the threesome than an argument over a hair-do phobia :moo: some blokes are a serious worry

 

[Keentoknow]

LOL yes

I get the feeling DS Ainsworth enjoys fishing...

and wants to drag his catch through Mother's Day first

DS Ainsworth has been resposible for some big catches. He will get the catch of the day. A man to be well respected.:jail:

 

[Fuskier]

Mr Baden Clay is under no obligation to provide a statement. If he is to be charged with an offence then it is up to the Crown to prove each element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. It is not the job of either he or his lawyers to disprove anything. He does not have to prove, or even comment on, where he was or what he was doing at any time. If he is to eventually appear in court it is highly unlikely that he will take the witness stand to give evidence. If any of these realities and rights appear to the wider public to be a expression of a consciousness of guilt then it is a good thing that he would be tried by only twelve people, all of whom will be required to objectively assess the evidence tested in court, and not the evidence alleged by media or public speculation. As to how a lawyer can represent a person who makes admissions in relation to aspects of an offence, that is the essence of the lawyer's role. The Crown can accuse a citizen of a crime and then utilise the entire resources of the State to try and convict them. A single citizen, regardless of their status, has nothing like this power. Often times a person will be accused by police and the Crown of either the wrong offence, or of too many counts, and it is the job of the defence lawyers to make sure that this is brought to light. But lawyers do not generally have hundreds of searchers, forensic services on call, a compliant media and the weight of public opinion behind them. They can only use the law, their intellect and cross-examination skill to stand between a citizen and the State. Each year many people in Qld are accused of offences they did not commit or of the wrong offences. Rape is a common charge which is brought against the innocent. Put yourself in the position of such a person and ask what sort of lawyer you would then want standing between you and the State, plus a media calling for your blood.

Thanks HAWKINS for clarifying that the function of a Lawyer/Barrister is to stand between The Accused and The State - to ensure that Justice is done and the charges are proved beyond reasonable doubt. Their tool of trade is The Law, not lynch mob mentality.
Look forward to reading your inserts. They bridge our gaps in knowledge just where we need it. Thank you.

 

[Liadan]

While I am really happy about the Courier Mail's proclaimation that an arrest will be made soon - I just can't help thinking that the police made a statement such 'yes we are getting there' or something quite mild and the paper has blown the statement up for headlines.

I love the fact that those involved will be shaking in their shoes but until I hear Aisworth say 'we are about to make an arrest' I don't hold much faith in the headlines. I do think the media have been very considerate to he family - generally by now we would see the whole life portraits of the suspected splashed over the news.

But I think like Hawkins said the QPS don't need to use the media to put the fear of hell into someone, they could simply say we are closing in and intend to make an arrest. (Then there would be a big shizzle in someones pants. )

 

[CJ60]

DS Ainsworth has been resposible for some big catches. He will get the catch of the day. A man to be well respected.:jail:

Well said!

However, I have no respect for a man that defends a monster that abducts a baby girl, bites her, murders her and throws her on the roof of a toilet block.

 

[Karo]

Its his job, not a choice, really, everyone is entitled to a defence, no matter how abhorent he thinks it is.

 

[CJ60]

Happy Mothers Day to all fellow mums out there. I awoke to the wonderful news that an arrest looks imminent....bloody marvellous. I will save my final rejoicing for the life sentence.

I hope the girls are surrounded my grand maternal love today...thinking of them.

Just caught up reading....cannot believe my post about how often strangulation occurs (without death) in an abusive relationship turned into some sordid threesome...what the hell?! Totally did not suggest this!

Talking about abusive relationships, when i came home feeling beautiful with a lovely new hair do, my ex partner started world war 3. He much preferred me looking dowdy. A new hair do had to mean a new man and his jealousy was insane.


If GBC was like my ex, insecure and controlling, the hair do may have been enough to spark a violent rage. IMO.

Right back at you Caviar!

Wishing all of you mum's out there a happy mothers day..

I am looking forward to spending time with my 2 beautiful girls today; I cherish them dearly.

This year, special thoughts not only to 3 little girls, and a loving mum who will never be able to celebrate this day together again, but to all mothers who have lost daughters, and daughters who have lost mum's ......

Have a wonderful day!

 

[pugsandfrogs]

If the QPS were close to an arrest then they would simply carry out the arrest, not proclaim it in the media.

Perhaps to flush out more information. Make the perp (whoever it may be) get nervous and make a mistake.

Remember Kiesha Abrahams? NSW police knew who the killer was all along, but they waited months. Then the mother and step father made a fatal mistake.

 

[plentyofnous]

Hi All
Long time lurker, first post. IMO, this is a complicated case, don t think the Police have much to go on and are looking desperate for evidence, for such a high profile case they need to be very careful not to jump too quickly as GBC s legal team will be ready to pounce. It must be remembered that Police, even seasoned Detectives don t normally have any legal qualifications and that the Courts will determine guilt, not the Police and the media. They will not want the perp to escape incarceration or be allowed bail ( where he/she will be able to liase with legal team more freely so will be building solid case which will be checked and double checked.
Most interesting, if GBC is innocent, they are dragging him ( and his family incl 3 little girls ) through the mud from which he/they will never recover.
What did happen, IMO is that there was a fight,she was seeing another as well, she threatened to leave , with the kids and money and he cracked. I think its that simple but he was very lucky that they didn t find her earlier and that evidence has been disposed of and eroded over time.

 

[pugsandfrogs]

While I am really happy about the Courier Mail's proclaimation that an arrest will be made soon - I just can't help thinking that the police made a statement such 'yes we are getting there' or something quite mild and the paper has blown the statement up for headlines.

I love the fact that those involved will be shaking in their shoes but until I hear Aisworth say 'we are about to make an arrest' I don't hold much faith in the headlines. I do think the media have been very considerate to he family - generally by now we would see the whole life portraits of the suspected splashed over the news.

But I think like Hawkins said the QPS don't need to use the media to put the fear of hell into someone, they could simply say we are closing in and intend to make an arrest. (Then there would be a big shizzle in someones pants. )

Maybe that was what the 10 minute discussion with GBC at his parents house yesterday was?

 

[CJ60]

Maybe that was what the 10 minute discussion with GBC at his parents house yesterday was?

Well, that could be the reason he didn't invite them in for tea and scones!

 

[factfinda]

Not sure if this has been clarified before, but the reason for the comment from police regarding "a personal safety strategy for those exercising in isolated areas such as on bike paths or along river walkways, advising them to stay aware of their surroundings while maintaining a "streetwise" appearance" is because many residents had been asking whether the area was safe or whether a random killer was on the loose. Even if the killer in this case is not considered a threat to any other resident, it would be irresponsible of police to say there was no danger to anyone in the area - ever. Thus, police wanted to remind people of basic safety and common sense, otherwise if someone was out walking in a remote area and was attacked (by someone not related to this case), then the victim could say "well, we were told it was safe here so this is why I went walking alone at midnight, etc".

 

[Ixnaye]

Unfortunately I agree that the headline of today's Sunday Mail is merely an attempt to rattle the cage of the culprit/s and keep the pressure on them. If they had enough evidence they would have arrested someone not just be talking about doing it. Fingers crossed they will be able to put all the pieces together soon and have an air tight case.

Personally I think Mr Baden-Clay Senior might be involved in this. A friend of mine used to work with him when he was in the insurance game and he can't understand why NGC and EBC would have been working in GBC's business at their age in life. My friend is the same age as them and he has been long retired and living the good life and he thought the Baden-Clays would have long been doing so too. Especially since NBC used to act as though he was somebody even way back then. My friend thinks that the only reason that they would have been working in the real estate business is because they had financially backed it so it was in their own best interests to be in there and working.

Now if the marriage was on the rocks and say ABC had decided to actually end the marriage and get a divorce then they would have to divide up assets etc and that would have no doubt jeopardised an already struggling business.

Maybe NBC knew ABC was home alone and the kids were at a sleepover so he went to speak with her about the divorce prospect, hoping to change her mind. ABC fed up with her cheating husband and sick of her in laws interference and domineering ways stands up for herself and an argument ensues.......NBC loses his temper and.......

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Inanna]

Thank God for Hawkins!

I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.

I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...

It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.

I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...

GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...

IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.

If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.

I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.

I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...