Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

[plentyofnous]

Really, if the Police are closing down roundabouts 3 weeks after event, looking for clues, don t think we will see an arrest soon

 

[oreily85]

IF TW is the OW...

Huh? Who or what is a TW and an OW?

 

[plentyofnous]

think it is tm and "other woman"

 

[Limaes]

Thank God for Hawkins!

I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.

I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...

It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.

I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...

GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...

IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.

If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.

I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.

I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...

Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.

GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.

 

[CJ60]

Its his job, not a choice, really, everyone is entitled to a defence, no matter how abhorent he thinks it is.

I know...

Back at the end of Thread 6 we were discussing this; I'm not a lawyer - I can't even understand half of Hawkin's posts!! Thanks you Hawkins ( whatever your profession is) and all others - I am trying to get my head around what you say.

I just feel that if someone like PD ever had to go through what this little baby's mum has ( it would destroy me if I lost one of my children, especially under circumstances like this) would it be enough to make him switch camps? Prosecute, not defend?

And I am still trying to make sense of Hawkin's post - that a person can admit they murdered someone, say where they hid the body, and the lawyer has to keep quiet.. unless they think they will kill again. I just can't get my head around it.

So, for instance, say the police eventually arrest the person they think killed Allison. Even if they have admitted to their lawyer that they killed her - but want to deny it, can they go into court and lie under oath - and their lawyer ( or barrister ??) know they are lying?

I think a lot of people on this forum are just mum's like Allison, and want to see her murderer caught, and put away for a very long time....thinking with our hearts, not our heads..

 

[plentyofnous]

What do I do if my client confesses guilt to me but wants to plead not guilty?

According to the Qld Solicitors' Rule 15.2 you have a choice as to how to proceed.

You can cease to act provided there is sufficent time for another lawyer to be briefed prior to the hearing and the client does not object (see 15.2.1); or
You can continue to act and put the Crown to proof, but there are limitations placed on your defence. You cannot, for example, put an argument that is inconsistent with what you know to be true. These limitations are spelled out in Solicitors' Rule 15.2.2 (a)-(c).

 

[Nads]

:woohoo:

Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.

GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.

Or TM doesn't want to spend money on a lawyer.

 

[CJ60]

This guy was sentenced to life, with parole after 13yrs. So, he's probably been out by now for some time.

I don't know how they sleep at night. I positively sobbed for what seemed like an eternity after sentencing. I was sent a letter a couple years ago requisting me to be a juror again for the supreme court. I, of course asked to be excused. I found the whole process traumatic enough, being a single girl in my very early 20's. And now, since having kids, I cry at any sappy sad moment in a tv show, movie, or even commerical. I know I wouldn't be able to keep my composure being a juror again.

Lu-Lu,

Allison's case upsets me; I can't imagine what it would be like being on a jury for this horrible, horrible crime. How on earth can you come up with a defence like 'she provoked me' And you were so young...

And this man could now be on the streets again. So wrong - has no right to be alive himself, IMO. Thank you for sharing this - so very, very traumatic for you. I don't ever want to be called for jury duty; I would not be a good juror. As stated before, my decisions would be guided by my heart and not my head : (

 

[CaseClosed]

I know...

Back at the end of Thread 6 we were discussing this; I'm not a lawyer - I can't even understand half of Hawkin's posts!! Thanks you Hawkins ( whatever your profession is) and all others - I am trying to get my head around what you say.

I just feel that if someone like PD ever had to go through what this little baby's mum has ( it would destroy me if I lost one of my children, especially under circumstances like this) would it be enough to make him switch camps? Prosecute, not defend?

And I am still trying to make sense of Hawkin's post - that a person can admit they murdered someone, say where they hid the body, and the lawyer has to keep quiet.. unless they think they will kill again. I just can't get my head around it.

So, for instance, say the police eventually arrest the person they think killed Allison. Even if they have admitted to their lawyer that they killed her - but want to deny it, can they go into court and lie under oath - and their lawyer ( or barrister ??) know they are lying?

I think a lot of people on this forum are just mum's like Allison, and want to see her murderer caught, and put away for a very long time....thinking with our hearts, not our heads..

I understand exactly what you are saying, however, there is always someone who has to do the so called "dirty/ugly jobs" in our society. Also, in this country the Law works on the basis that you are "presumed innocent" and as such, the prosecution has to prove otherwise. I don't envy the role of a defence lawyer ... it must be terribly difficult for them to have to keep quiet about what they know, but I do understand it. Many innocent people have ended up in jail for long periods of time, but now thanks to DNA and other modern technologies, they are proven innocent. Imaging their defence team, believing that the person is innocent, how they must feel when they loose their cases. I'm sure defence lawyers have a conscience and are not inhumane, but they have to abide by what the Law stipulates. It goes both ways.

 

[oreily85]

Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.

GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.

How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*

 

[Nads]

I've wrangled my way out of jury duty several times but I'd quite like to be involved in this one. Mainly to find out the facts that we wish we all knew!

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

:woohoo:


Or TM doesn't want to spend money on a lawyer.

It is believed by me and others that TM has hired a lawyer to represent her interests in this matter .

 

[Limaes]

We don't get the Courier Mail where I live. The interview with Allison's best friend is only available in print. If anyone reads it can you please give a recap of what's in it.

Thanks!

 

[CaseClosed]

How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*

Looking at the photos of the funeral, the big Bwana does not look concerned at all IMO. On the other hand, the husband seems very concerned (more than sad) and also almost like saying "sorry!" to the coffin and to the girls. I think that someone helped him after the fact, but time will tell.

 

[CJ60]

I think hiring legal eagles the way he has is standard practice amongst those with the funds to do so, particularly when you're going to be the first person the police will suspect. My cousin is a senior partner for probably the most prestigious law firm in Australia and he said to me never talk to the police except to give your name, address and date of birth and call him immediately (this was back in my protest days). SO GBC's actions in this regard seem reasonable to me.

Thanks SKMA,

Personally, the only reason for me to just give my name, address, DOB and call my lawyer would be if I was guilty! If innocent, nothing to worry about. JMO.
I know that everyone is saying it was wise, as he would be the prime suspect, but the only thing on my mind so soon after my wife's disappearance would be her welfare - FIND HER, for god's sake!

 

[indogwetrust]

At the risk of being pedantic back at you, i think you will find an SC is the equivalent of a QC.
I just detest such authorative misinformation, particularly when we have so few facts to work with.

This was my point, hence, my use of the word 'pedantic'. GBC's counsel IS an SC, not a QC in the pedantic sense of the word, though in all practicalities, this is the same thing.

This was not intended to be, nor was, 'authoritative misinformation' - I prefaced and qualified my comment clearly. My point was to illustrate his counsel's proper title i.e this is a 'fact we have to work with'.

This is the terminology now used, except for those barristers who where already a QC before the change was made and they could choose to either retain the title or move to SC.

Woah back a bit next time and take a closer look.

 

[plentyofnous]

If the Police turned up, he said my wifes missing, had scratches on his face and torso, and her car / his car had been sighted at a roundabout when he said he was asleep, we would all be talking about his upcoming trial. Don t think he is covering for anybody, think he has just shut up, not said much at all, and is acting under his very expensive advice. IMO he may be playing the "depression" card to create REASONABLE DOUBT

 

[Limaes]

How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*

That may be true too. If it is, he is one hell of a weakling to not be able to stop a cat fight turning into murder.

I respect your opinion but I still feel that GBC is the 'main' player.

 

[CaseClosed]

If the Police turned up, he said my wifes missing, had scratches on his face and torso, and her car / his car had been sighted at a roundabout when he said he was asleep, we would all be talking about his upcoming trial. Don t think he is covering for anybody, think he has just shut up, not said much at all, and is acting under his very expensive advice. IMO he may be playing the "depression" card to create REASONABLE DOUBT

I can see "temporary insanity" coming up (the pressures of life, failing business, separation, etc. sent him over the edge, blah blah blah)

 

[jlydia]

We don't get the Courier Mail where I live. The interview with Allison's best friend is only available in print. If anyone reads it can you please give a recap of what's in it.

Thanks!

It's pretty crap to be honest. Goes on about Mother's Day and handmade cards and a family get together. Does mention that ABC's dad is turning 72 today, but apart from that, nothing that you can't read online.