Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9

[AllyG]

YOUR IGNORE LIST AND YOU!​

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Can they still read your posts? That is unless they "ignore" you too?

 

[Kimster]

Can they still read your posts? That is unless they "ignore" you too?

Yes, they can read your posts unless they do the same. We have many members using the ignore feature on Websleuths. The only drawback they seem to have is that they can still see the quotes within others' posts.

 

[WheresColumbo]

Yes it has been mentioned here in a list from (Keyboredom) which i searched for yesterday and is a great reference to keep handy.I was going to ask them to repost but heres the page of facts and other info based on the jungle drums ....thread2#page37 post905 worth a look
I can't find any reference to that situation re the accident and taking off his shirt in that post. Have I misundertood?

Thanks Karo. The 'shirt off' business was mentioned in another forum. Probably someone's imagination gone wild!

 

[Karo]

Self discipline is a great tool, practice makes perfect

 

[Kimster]

Has there been any new news yet today? I've searched the internet to no avail.

 

[Acer]

Bit out there but maybe the two cars were because GBC could not go through with dumping the body. He may have made a phone call and someone else turned up to assist (or push him in to) getting rid of the evidence.

 

[Karo]

TOMORROW marks four weeks of heartache since mother-of-three Allison Baden-Clay disappeared but the floral tributes being laid at her Brookfield home and at the Kholo Creek Bridge near where her body was found only grow in number.

More than 20 detectives yesterday continued their methodical hunt to find Mrs Baden-Clay's killer from a major incident room first erected at the Indooroopilly Police Station almost a month ago, shortly after the 43-year-old was reported missing by her husband at 7.30am on Friday, April 20.

The Courier-Mail understands detectives are scouring hundreds of witness statements and are still interviewing widely as they wait for final toxicology results.

Police earlier this week declared that members of the Brookfield community should not fear for their safety, adding they believed Mrs Baden-Clay's killer was someone she knew.
todays Courier Mail

 

[True]

Has there been any new news yet today? I've searched the internet to no avail.

I've searched Courier Mail, channels 7 and 9 Kimster, from what I can see nothing new.

 

[Hawkins]

There are generally seven ways in which a person may be held criminally responsible for an offence in Qld. Five of those appear most relevant to this alleged homicide. The Criminal Code provides that when an offence (such as murder) is committed, any and all of the following people may be charged with the murder:
The person(s) who actually committed the murder
Any person who aided the principal offender
Any person who enabled the principal offender to commit the offence
Any person who counselled the principal offender to commited the offence
Any person who procured the principal offender to commited the offence

An aider is usually physically present when the murder is carried out. They could hold the victim down or restrain them. They could simply be physically present and by that presence give encouragment and tacit support to the actual killer.

An enabler is not usually present at the time of the murder, but does something which helps the principal offender. They might provide the weapon, keep a lookout, clean up the scene, lure the victim to the murder location etc.

A counsellor is a person who advises the principal offender to carry out the murder and may offer advice as to how to carry it out.

A procurer is a person who obtains the assistance of another person to do the actual killing.

If investigators come across a fact and evidentiary scenario in which a number of these heads of complicity may be involved, then the investigation can be very complex and demanding in terms of time and resources. Witness statements, direct evidence and circumstantial evidence must all be collated and cross-checked and any inconsistencies resolved before charges are laid. If more than one offender is to be charged with the offence then the subsequent trials will usually be held concurrently. That is there will be a single court trial in which all those charged will appear in the dock at the same time, usually represented by separate lawyers, or at least separate barristers. Such a trial can be very demanding on all involved and the prosecution team will need a significant amount of time to prepare, as will the defence. The potential for errors and ommissions is significant.

Once a single person is charged, the dynamcis of the investigation become much narrower as all those who may be potentially charged are put in 'lock-down' by their own lawyers and the process becomes slower and more demanding still. Multiple lawyers with significant eperience will be watching for every potential breach of procedure and of the laws of evidence.

 

[CaseClosed]

Looks like discussion of the 2 cars seems to upset the binClayden fanclub trolls, so maybe lets look at that.

Theories I've seen so far:

1. Allison meets perp and lover in bush - fight ensues
2. Perp + accomp drive Alli to bridge intending to fake suicide and change mind
3. Perp drives there to dump, has breakdown/flat battery; needs tow home.

Any others?

Fight heard near home and phone movement may exclude (1)
Strange car movement (very close; lights off) could indicate towing - why else could cars be doing that?

IMO the car was not being towed. The additional car may have been used to transport body in order not to leave evidence in the white Prado, which the perp knew would be searched by police as standard investigation, because it was the car she normally drove (apparently).

 

[willough]

Looks like discussion of the 2 cars seems to upset the binClayden fanclub trolls, so maybe lets look at that.

Theories I've seen so far:

1. Allison meets perp and lover in bush - fight ensues
2. Perp + accomp drive Alli to bridge intending to fake suicide and change mind
3. Perp drives there to dump, has breakdown/flat battery; needs tow home.

Any others?

Fight heard near home and phone movement may exclude (1)
Strange car movement (very close; lights off) could indicate towing - why else could cars be doing that?

I dont think flat battery................I think ....Cant fnd her keys to start car. (which means it wasnt gerard, as he surely would have a set)

Need keys to start a car, but if there was a fight and they were lost in the fight.

Also gives good reasoning for car being close behind other car.....someone was behind the wheel of the car with it in neutral maybe.

 

[Neuromancer]

Good morning everyone!


Supposedly the first ambo to assist the car accident victim saw that the driver was unable to release his seat belt. Probably due to the airbag! Ambo told him he'd have to remove his shirt. The injured driver went into some sort of pannicked response. The shirt was removed. According to the 'friend of the ambo', drivers chest was markedly scratched and bruised.

Yes this is interesting because, regardless of what exactly happened at the scene, having the car accident would have meant having a full physical examination at the hospital that would have documented any pre-existing injuries in detail. More, you'd imagine, than any meeting with police that was avoided in the process.

 

[Paradox11]

I can't think of a reason why they would ask him to remove his shirt because the seatbelt was stuck. In fact I'm not sure how he would get his shirt off with the seatbelt on and the airbag inflated. Taking clothes off in a car is hard enough without your seatbelt on.

 

[Neuromancer]

Bit out there but maybe the two cars were because GBC could not go through with dumping the body. He may have made a phone call and someone else turned up to assist (or push him in to) getting rid of the evidence.

Thanks i'll add that to the list

 

[Karo]

I suspect that it didn't happen at all, the shirt removal thing.

 

[willough]

I wonder if the police have Allison's car keys. Wherever her car keys are, are probably where this all went down. Somehow, the keys were lost, thus them not being able to start the car to bring it home. Car was towed in neutral, reason it looked so close, only had parkers on, to keep safe and maybe lights so close, would annoy front driver anyway.

Or as they were dumping body....keys fell out of pocket....In dead of night, couldnt find keys.....Waited till light, went to get keys before they called police.

 

[Hawkins]

A case which is based largely or exlcusively on circumstantial evidence is much more difficult for prosecutors. If there is insufficient direct evidence (such as DNA, eye witnesses, finger prints, CCTV footage) to convince the DPP that there is a good chancce to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt then a trial will not take place. It may well costs ,illions of dollars and if unsuccessful will generally mean that the accused person(s) cannot be charged again. Where a person is charged solely on the basis of circumstantial evidence a jury must be convinced that the only expalanation consistent with that evidence is the guilt of the person charged. Circumstantial evidence is rarely that strong. It wll often be enough to make it highly likely that the accused committed the offence and be enough to make them liable for civil action, and to make them guilty in the eyes of the media and public. If the accused is acquitted in such circumstances then the very media outlets and public who demanded quick, and often premature, action will be out for the prosecution's blood.

 

[Neuromancer]

I can't think of a reason why they would ask him to remove his shirt because the seatbelt was stuck. In fact I'm not sure how he would get his shirt off with the seatbelt on and the airbag inflated. Taking clothes off in a car is hard enough without your seatbelt on.

Ambulance officers have little hesitation in cutting off clothes to examine an injury - they have special scissors that can do it safely in seconds without moving the patient.

If someone was complaining of chest pain, cutting shirt would be a first step. Apart from looking for injury, you're also wanting to assess breathing, and get cardiac monitor electrodes attached.

 

[Barram5]

Yes it has been mentioned here in a list from (Keyboredom) which i searched for yesterday and is a great reference to keep handy.I was going to ask them to repost but heres the page of facts and other info based on the jungle drums ....thread2#page37 post905 worth a look
I can't find any reference to that situation re the accident and taking off his shirt in that post. Have I misundertood?

I should have posted link but didn't realise I till after I posted directions to info list so this is the page link.....http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170913&page=37

 

[Neuromancer]

I wonder if the police have Allison's car keys. Wherever her car keys are, are probably where this all went down. Somehow, the keys were lost, thus them not being able to start the car to bring it home. Car was towed in neutral, reason it looked so close, only had parkers on, to keep safe and maybe lights so close, would annoy front driver anyway.

Or as they were dumping body....keys fell out of pocket....In dead of night, couldnt find keys.....Waited till light, went to get keys before they called police.

Towing without keys would be near impossible because of steering lock.