Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[SherlockSleuth]

Can anyone shed any light on anything the profilers said about CSK? Just wondering if it fits BRE.

It just hit me again how utterly brazen CSK was to take a third victim from the SAME location. This is absurd when you think about it.

The other thing bugging me, is how do the police interview 700 people who were at Claremont the night JR disappeared and not one of them could identify MM. In a small town like Perth? Just seems weird.

 

[lsdmongre]

Still waiting to see/hear what, if anything, that the police have as hard evidence. Would hate to think that they jumped the gun with an arrest and charge with the hope of finding hard evidence that may or may not of been found so far. There has been nothing more from the police since the initial arrest, why??? Oh, IMO

I would like to remind you they do have DNA as evidence from 2 victims and one of those victims is actually a living witness. Would love to know if the KK victim has been taken in and identified the accused via sound or site.



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[SherlockSleuth]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

The above article has a tiny bit of information from the FBI profiler. Basically 'find the guy who committed the KK cemetery rape. He's your guy'. Not bad hey.

Surely if the accused is innocent he'll have an alibi for at least one of the incidents. An interstate trip. A drinking session. A fling. A bank statement with a purchase for a can of coke on the other side of town. Something. Otherwise with no alibi and his DNA not once but twice.....

 

[Spinnaker]

I would like to remind you they do have DNA as evidence from 2 victims and one of those victims is actually a living witness. Would love to know if the KK victim has been taken in and identified the accused via sound or site.

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There are also the car fibres found on JC to consider which potentially can be linked to the car - if there is a match with the car there could also be DNA in the vehicle also.

 

[JoWa]

The Sunday Night program on CSK that has the identikit with eyes that look like BRE had another portion of the identikit in the background.
Down the bottom of the screenshot, next to the same map as the original identikit with eyes image.
Hard to make out much but there is a definite thin moustache.

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[JoWa]

Also the Sunday Night show ended with Detective Ferguson saying that CSK is possibly still killing but he had changed his MO. An obvious link would be people that won't be missed, such as prostitutes.

Which brings me to Con Bayens the detective in charge of the prostitute task force from 2000-2002 who found the car boot lined with plastic and other suspicious tools.

This taskforce is setup after the CSKs 3 victims yet he seemed adamant it was linked. I previously believed this was found closer to the CSK disappearances not several years after which may be why the Macro taskforce didn't show enthusiasm.

Link to Con Bayens correspondence regarding the plastic lined boot.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...a-police-about-claremont-investigation/#page1


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[Trueblue2017]

I would like to remind you they do have DNA as evidence from 2 victims and one of those victims is actually a living witness. Would love to know if the KK victim has been taken in and identified the accused via sound or site.



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yes DNA links the cases but nothing has ever been reported as 100% matching BRE. just to remind all, imo

 

[RETPI]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

The above article has a tiny bit of information from the FBI profiler. Basically 'find the guy who committed the KK cemetery rape. He's your guy'. Not bad hey.

Surely if the accused is innocent he'll have an alibi for at least one of the incidents. An interstate trip. A drinking session. A fling. A bank statement with a purchase for a can of coke on the other side of town. Something. Otherwise with no alibi and his DNA not once but twice.....

DNA actually linked to three incidents. Huntingdale, Karrakatta and one Claremont.

Robin NAPPER and others, believed that Karrakatta was linked and that WAPOL should also look at other precursor crimes, but their experience was rejected.

Unfortunately, some would say that the investigation was doomed from the start, when a certain individual was put in charge.

Someone, mentioned on the earlier thread that WAPOL had poor media advice. That is not true. They have had excellent advice from a number of former journalists that have worked in WAPOL media relations over many years.

It was certain investigators in WAPOL, that failed to take that advice.

 

[Trueblue2017]

There are also the car fibres found on JC to consider which potentially can be linked to the car - if there is a match with the car there could also be DNA in the vehicle also.

"to the car" which car, BREs old Telstra car? But if the police matched the fibres conclusively to BREs car why not state that or did the fibres NOT match and they are still Looking for the car used? Just imo

as I stated earlier nothing conclusively has been reported stating BREs DNA or old car matches anything, just that DNA links the crimes.

just trying to maintain an open mind, until conclusive evidence is actually produced.

 

[Trueblue2017]

I

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

The above article has a tiny bit of information from the FBI profiler. Basically 'find the guy who committed the KK cemetery rape. He's your guy'. Not bad hey.

Surely if the accused is innocent he'll have an alibi for at least one of the incidents. An interstate trip. A drinking session. A fling. A bank statement with a purchase for a can of coke on the other side of town. Something. Otherwise with no alibi and his DNA not once but twice.....

Agreed, but how many sleuths can conclusively state exactly where they were 20+ years ago. I have been trying to think of where I was and can only really come up with Valentine's Day 96. It would have to be a special event...imo

If he had an alibi for each time it would be more suspect, IMO.
even most employers only keep records for the 7 years as required by tax, it just uses up too much space, even to keep electronically past the required time frame. IMO

his DNA, are you 100% sure? I believe it was reported as familial DNA and not necessarily 100% linked to BRE, I may wrong.

 

[Spinnaker]

I don 't believe that WAPOL have an obligation to advise the public of their findings regards to DNA matches and results from the car and other searches - as much as we would like to be updated.

This is a matter which will be raised though the judiciary process.



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[Trueblue2017]

"to the car" which car, BREs old Telstra car?

I don 't believe that WAPOL have an obligation to advise the public of their findings regards to DNA matches and results from the car and other searches - as much as we would like to be updated. This is a matter which will be raised though the judiciary process.




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Agreed, and we should stick to the facts as we know them reported by the police, not newspaper do lie or take poetic license. No 100% match to BRE that is fact. Nothing reported, leaked or officially about any victims DNA being found in any property or car of BRE, fact.

not rumour nor conclusion, but fact...thus far ��

 

[Spinnaker]

Agreed, and we should stick to the facts as we know them reported by the police, newspaper do lie or take poetic license. No 100% match to BRE that is fact. Nothing reported, leaked or officially about any victims DNA being found in any property or car of BRE, fact.

not rumour nor conclusion, but fact...thus far ��

The below article indicates that there was indeed a positive DNA match.

"It is understood a DNA sample was taken from him immediately after his arrest and the positive results came back about 12 hours later, leading to him being formally charged."

http://www.news.com.au/national/claremont-serial-killings-stolen-kimono-helped-lead-police-to-arrest/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

 

[Trueblue2017]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

The above article has a tiny bit of information from the FBI profiler. Basically 'find the guy who committed the KK cemetery rape. He's your guy'. Not bad hey.

Surely if the accused is innocent he'll have an alibi for at least one of the incidents. An interstate trip. A drinking session. A fling. A bank statement with a purchase for a can of coke on the other side of town. Something. Otherwise with no alibi and his DNA not once but twice.....

the below article indicates that there was indeed a positive DNA match.

"It is understood a DNA sample was taken from him immediately after his arrest and the positive results came back about 12 hours later, leading to him being formally charged."

http://www.news.com.au/national/claremont-serial-killings-stolen-kimono-helped-lead-police-to-arrest/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

This is a newspaper report that starts with "it is understood..." As I said earlier poetic license, not fact as in 100% conclusive. The police reported a familial link which as you would know is not 100% conclusive. And it will struggle to stand the rigours of our court process, IMO

Dont believe everything you read in a newspaper, especially if it starts with, it is understood, that's their out if it is incorrect. Oh imo

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Do we know where JR worked? Which child care centre?

 

[RETPI]

This is a newspaper report that starts with "it is understood..." As I said earlier poetic license, not fact as in 100% conclusive. The police reported a familial link which as you would know is not 100% conclusive. And it will struggle to stand the rigours of our court process, IMO



Dont believe everything you read in a newspaper, especially if it starts with, it is understood, that's their out if it is incorrect. Oh imo

A familial link helped to establish BE as the POI. So not BE's DNA, but a relative on the data base.

Investigation allegedly determines BE the most likely relative to have committed the crime, based on factors such as occupation, vehicle he was driving at the time, etc.

He was subsequently taken in for questioning and HIS DNA taken. Positive result obtained (and this sample not familial) and he was subsequently charged.

That's my understanding and given he's sitting in Hakea, I am reasonably confident I am correct.

 

[Trueblue2017]

A familial link helped to establish BE as the POI. So not BE's DNA, but a relative on the data base.

Investigation allegedly determines BE the most likely relative to have committed the crime, based on factors such as occupation, vehicle he was driving at the time, etc.

He was subsequently taken in for questioning and HIS DNA taken. Positive result obtained (and this sample not familial) and he was subsequently charged.

That's my understanding and given he's sitting in Hakea, I am reasonably confident I am correct.

is this a fact or your understanding? There is a very significant difference. Just IMO

 

[MyLeftFoot]

A familial link helped to establish BE as the POI. So not BE's DNA, but a relative on the data base.

Investigation allegedly determines BE the most likely relative to have committed the crime, based on factors such as occupation, vehicle he was driving at the time, etc.

He was subsequently taken in for questioning and HIS DNA taken. Positive result obtained (and this sample not familial) and he was subsequently charged.

That's my understanding and given he's sitting in Hakea, I am reasonably confident I am correct.

Lets not beat around the bush here Retpi...do you really believe that BE's DNA wasn't acquired before the raid? Considering the media was tipped off and reporting as it unfolded..seriously, we know how it really works!

 

[gajafar]

The Sunday Night program on CSK that has the identikit with eyes that look like BRE had another portion of the identikit in the background.
Down the bottom of the screenshot, next to the same map as the original identikit with eyes image.
Hard to make out much but there is a definite thin moustache.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

great find there. Have lightened and joined to the upper half. Possibly looks like Robin Dyers.

 

[BReVeTTe]

> ....the Sunday Night show ended with Detective Ferguson saying that CSK is possibly still killing but he had changed his MO. An obvious link would be people that won't be missed, such as prostitutes.

Which brings me to Con Bayens the detective in charge of the prostitute task force from 2000-2002 who found the car boot lined with plastic and other suspicious tools.

This taskforce is setup after the CSKs 3 victims yet he seemed adamant it was linked. I previously believed this was found closer to the CSK disappearances not several years after which may be why the Macro taskforce didn't show enthusiasm.

Link to Con Bayens correspondence regarding the plastic lined boot.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...a-police-about-claremont-investigation/#page1

this refresher link also has some on the matter of con bayen's report >
[ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uspect-walk-free-focused-tying-man-crime.html ]

today i'v thought an awful lot about skepticism...
the ability to maintain an open mind would have to be the best attribute of any aspiring sleuth, particularly in unlikely 'sets of circumstance', theories, and the improbable, which -when afforded consideration- the sequential order of events should lean towards discussion, debate, and the possible revelation of something previously unconsidered in any newly arising avenue of thought.

while i can understand how skepticism might sometimes become employed as a defense mechanism, it is good sleuthing's worst enemy, and tunnel vision's greatest ally
...imo

extract > just trying to maintain an open mind, until conclusive evidence is actually produced.

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