Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[no name]

Freo Tide info according to wolfram alpha sourced from their database (sorry, manage attachments doesnt seem to work for me)
20Jun88 - High Tide 1.1m 11.35am - Low Tide .7m 9.31pm
21Jun88 - High Tide 1.03m 11.52am - Low Tide .73m 8.27pm
22Jun88 - High Tide .97m 10.07am - Low Tide .76m 8.25pm
Sunrise around 7.20am all 3 days - sunset approx 5.20pm.
Moon set by 12.30am at latest
The groyne looked very different in the 80's compared to today. It didnt have large protruding boulders encasing it on all sides, instead, most of the rocks were almost level with the flat concrete. If my memory serves me correctly, there were at least 2 sections that you had to take a considerable step down to get onto the rocks too. One was about halfway down to the right and Im pretty sure the end dropped off most of the way around. I remember watching people surfing "The Cove" to the left being able to run the length and jump off quite easily without having to clamber over boulders. It was really dark at night time too. We were sitting out there one night after a party at the surfclub when they switched off their lights & we had to wait until our eyes readjusted enough to be able to climb off, which we did as quick as we could. I dont ever recall a time that it didnt have access for a car to drive down there either. Quite often the path was completely covered with sand and therefore not visible, but Im pretty sure its always been there.
The beach itself changed alot too as Id imagine it still does today. Sometimes you could step straight from the sand onto the bitumen below the now Indiana Tea Rooms, sometimes you had to climb up & other days you'd have to walk around to the stairs. The same went for getting in and out of the water. The bank was so high at times that you could jump straight from sand into waist deep water and you'd have to swim south to get out closer to the groyne and walk back.
For whats its worth, the fact that the car ended up in the ocean is the least baffling aspect to me whether it was driven off the sand or the groyne, either is possible IMO. The damage sways me to the groyne but the lights being on makes me think it was driven off the sand. Ive always wondered if the backseat could have been kicked out somehow, perhaps by someone trapped in the boot but not making it to shore. Or maybe it had "evidence" on it that someone was trying to dispose of and thought throwing it into the ocean was a good idea then once they got there they realised they could get the whole car in as well. Surely it had to be a hastily made decision rather than a plan.
Finally... Ive been searching for a photo for 2 days that shows the groyne as I remember it - here it is. I have no idea when this was taken but I would say it would have to be close to that time. At the least, it is a better indication of how the groyne looked compared to today anyway. Again, sorry about the attachment issue, check this link. https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/western-australia_0.jpg

 

[WhyWhy]

Great photo Noname! Certainly looks like the '80s. Remember when that many people actually swam, for our non locals many less visit the beach (sharks?skin cancer?ipads??). I remember old fisherman panel vans on the groyne along with fishing line on the old power line between light poles. This photo has the single (current) light..but there was vehicular access on the herringbone brick path in the '80s and conc flyover in the '70s. Oh and connected to the case I don't think it's the CSK, someone infatuated with or felt jilted by JC. BRE out of her league and social set? (IMO)


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[anna.w]

Great photo Noname! Certainly looks like the '80s. Remember when that many people actually swam, for our non locals many less visit the beach (sharks?skin cancer?ipads??). I remember old fisherman panel vans on the groyne along with fishing line on the old power line between light poles. This photo has the single (current) light..but there was vehicular access on the herringbone brick path in the '80s and conc flyover in the '70s. Oh and connected to the case I don't think it's the CSK, someone infatuated with or felt jilted by JC. BRE out of her league and social set? (IMO)


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This is the sort of local knowledge that changes things for me.

Other people may well have made reference to vehicles on the groyne, but I'd never picked up on it.

I assumed that a vehicle going down that groyne, even during the night, would be such a bizarre occurrence that the person who drove it could pretty much expect any passerby to note and remember it. That in turn made me draw certain conclusions about the mindset of the person who drove it (impulsive, unnecessarily elaborate, probably young).

If fishing people drove vehicles onto it, that makes the risk much more calculated.

Thanks for the post.

 

[Spinnaker]

Freo Tide info according to wolfram alpha sourced from their database (sorry, manage attachments doesnt seem to work for me)
20Jun88 - High Tide 1.1m 11.35am - Low Tide .7m 9.31pm
21Jun88 - High Tide 1.03m 11.52am - Low Tide .73m 8.27pm
22Jun88 - High Tide .97m 10.07am - Low Tide .76m 8.25pm
Sunrise around 7.20am all 3 days - sunset approx 5.20pm.
Moon set by 12.30am at latest
The groyne looked very different in the 80's compared to today. It didnt have large protruding boulders encasing it on all sides, instead, most of the rocks were almost level with the flat concrete. If my memory serves me correctly, there were at least 2 sections that you had to take a considerable step down to get onto the rocks too. One was about halfway down to the right and Im pretty sure the end dropped off most of the way around. I remember watching people surfing "The Cove" to the left being able to run the length and jump off quite easily without having to clamber over boulders. It was really dark at night time too. We were sitting out there one night after a party at the surfclub when they switched off their lights & we had to wait until our eyes readjusted enough to be able to climb off, which we did as quick as we could. I dont ever recall a time that it didnt have access for a car to drive down there either. Quite often the path was completely covered with sand and therefore not visible, but Im pretty sure its always been there.
The beach itself changed alot too as Id imagine it still does today. Sometimes you could step straight from the sand onto the bitumen below the now Indiana Tea Rooms, sometimes you had to climb up & other days you'd have to walk around to the stairs. The same went for getting in and out of the water. The bank was so high at times that you could jump straight from sand into waist deep water and you'd have to swim south to get out closer to the groyne and walk back.
For whats its worth, the fact that the car ended up in the ocean is the least baffling aspect to me whether it was driven off the sand or the groyne, either is possible IMO. The damage sways me to the groyne but the lights being on makes me think it was driven off the sand. Ive always wondered if the backseat could have been kicked out somehow, perhaps by someone trapped in the boot but not making it to shore. Or maybe it had "evidence" on it that someone was trying to dispose of and thought throwing it into the ocean was a good idea then once they got there they realised they could get the whole car in as well. Surely it had to be a hastily made decision rather than a plan.
Finally... Ive been searching for a photo for 2 days that shows the groyne as I remember it - here it is. I have no idea when this was taken but I would say it would have to be close to that time. At the least, it is a better indication of how the groyne looked compared to today anyway. Again, sorry about the attachment issue, check this link. https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/western-australia_0.jpg

Great post, thanks no name.


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[Spooks-R-Us]

Unlikely to be any connection, just because it rhymes.

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Ummmmm that was the point of my comment about my tin foil hat..... I wasn't being serious

 

[meticulously]

#No Name quoted:
Freo Tide info according to wolfram alpha sourced from their database (sorry, manage attachments doesnt seem to work for me)

20Jun88 - High Tide 1.1m 11.35am - Low Tide .7m 9.31pm

21Jun88 - High Tide 1.03m 11.52am - Low Tide .73m 8.27pm

22Jun88 - High Tide .97m 10.07am - Low Tide .76m 8.25pm

Sunrise around 7.20am all 3 days - sunset approx 5.20pm.
Moon set by 12.30am at latest .

" I dont ever recall a time that it didnt have access for a car to drive down there either." (Unquote )
------------------------------------

#No Name thanks for your recollection about the groyne access . Are you confident in saying that the car could have been driven off the groyne ?
The tide chart info is great but thats only if your familiar with the mean averages "meaning locals only" .
I want to see the month of june chart at least if not the whole year to evaluate if there was a big tidal coefficient at the time 20th-22nd june .
edit : found the website, just need to figure out how to read it .

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Fremantle+june+1988

I cant access any tide data, maybe you have to pay for "pro access" how did you do it #No-Name ?


.

 

[Moustachio]

Maybe it was a greater risk to the perp to of left the car at the crime scene or abduction scene for some reason than to dump it at the beach

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It's an excellent way to destroy DNA, especially where there is a lot of material to otherwise clean - and in some cases that would be well nigh impossible.

 

[meticulously]

Found a tide chart for the month of june 1988 fremantle WA.
http://tides.mobilegeographics.com/calendar/month/2037.html?y=1988&m=6&d=20

Sun 19 11:09 AM WST / 0.99 m 9:00 PM WST / 0.53 m 7:16 AM WST 5:19 PM WST

Mon 20 11:23 AM WST / 0.95 m 9:04 PM WST / 0.56 m 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST

Tue 21 11:27 AM WST / 0.90 m 8:57 PM WST / 0.59 m 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST

Wed 22 9:30 AM WST / 0.85 m 8:34 PM WST / 0.61 m First Quarter 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST .

With this tide chart link it shows only a SMALL Tidal Range predicted for the period 19th june to 22nd june 1988 .
That's different from what I guessed previously, apologies. This is an example of a new moon tide from the same month june "88 showing a bigger movement . " 14 8:52 AM WST / 1.15 m 7:06 PM WST / 0.40 m New Moon ."

But, in the event of low barometric pressure the tide will rise regardless of the charts predicted levels, the "inverse barometer effect" . This is known as a storm surge in extreme cases .
http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/tides/about/p3d-storms.shtml

http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Pressure-And-Tides
Here is an example of a scenario regarding barometric pressure;
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?46865-Tidal-height-and-barometric-pressure

 

[Innerchild]

Freo Tide info according to wolfram alpha sourced from their database (sorry, manage attachments doesnt seem to work for me)
20Jun88 - High Tide 1.1m 11.35am - Low Tide .7m 9.31pm
21Jun88 - High Tide 1.03m 11.52am - Low Tide .73m 8.27pm
22Jun88 - High Tide .97m 10.07am - Low Tide .76m 8.25pm
Sunrise around 7.20am all 3 days - sunset approx 5.20pm.
Moon set by 12.30am at latest
The groyne looked very different in the 80's compared to today. It didnt have large protruding boulders encasing it on all sides, instead, most of the rocks were almost level with the flat concrete. If my memory serves me correctly, there were at least 2 sections that you had to take a considerable step down to get onto the rocks too. One was about halfway down to the right and Im pretty sure the end dropped off most of the way around. I remember watching people surfing "The Cove" to the left being able to run the length and jump off quite easily without having to clamber over boulders. It was really dark at night time too. We were sitting out there one night after a party at the surfclub when they switched off their lights & we had to wait until our eyes readjusted enough to be able to climb off, which we did as quick as we could. I dont ever recall a time that it didnt have access for a car to drive down there either. Quite often the path was completely covered with sand and therefore not visible, but Im pretty sure its always been there.
The beach itself changed alot too as Id imagine it still does today. Sometimes you could step straight from the sand onto the bitumen below the now Indiana Tea Rooms, sometimes you had to climb up & other days you'd have to walk around to the stairs. The same went for getting in and out of the water. The bank was so high at times that you could jump straight from sand into waist deep water and you'd have to swim south to get out closer to the groyne and walk back.
For whats its worth, the fact that the car ended up in the ocean is the least baffling aspect to me whether it was driven off the sand or the groyne, either is possible IMO. The damage sways me to the groyne but the lights being on makes me think it was driven off the sand. Ive always wondered if the backseat could have been kicked out somehow, perhaps by someone trapped in the boot but not making it to shore. Or maybe it had "evidence" on it that someone was trying to dispose of and thought throwing it into the ocean was a good idea then once they got there they realised they could get the whole car in as well. Surely it had to be a hastily made decision rather than a plan.
Finally... Ive been searching for a photo for 2 days that shows the groyne as I remember it - here it is. I have no idea when this was taken but I would say it would have to be close to that time. At the least, it is a better indication of how the groyne looked compared to today anyway. Again, sorry about the attachment issue, check this link. https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/western-australia_0.jpg

I’m replying to some posts from the last thread as well as this one.

Thanks 7SJ I also think it was his first step up into the big time, the “apprentice”, but my with theory I think there may have been a “mentor” and a “patsy” as well. I also agree KT was an opportunistic abduction by him, and possible the next victim.

Looking at the severe crush damage to the car, I don’t think it would be able to be driven once the damage occurred. I still am looking for the image I’ve seen before on webslueths showing it further up on the white sand the sand and ocean in the background, it may be a different one than is shown in the thumbnail.

I only remember hearing radio reports of the car recovery at the time and accepted the suggestions of the media or police that it seemed someone had driven it into the ocean and walked home or to their car or the appalling suggestion made that somehow this was a suicide. The suicide suggestion was retracted by police and reports were made that no one was in the car when it entered the ocean.

It wasn’t until viewing the photos of the damaged car and reading more detailed accounts of what is known about JC going missing, that I now question this scenario.
Thanks to “no name” for printing tide charts and summer picture of Cott groyne.

21Jun88 Low tide .73m 8.27pm
22Jun88 High tide .97 10.07am
Tide was coming in at the rate of 25cm over 13 ½ hours when the car was put into water.

Being uni-tidal (1 high and 1 low tide in approx 24 hours ) means we have little if any at times tidal movement. There are exceptions, days when Perth is bi-tidal and when combined with wind, moon phases and swell that we get a tide up to the boat ramp but it was not over these couple of days. If somebody can please find the photo of the car pulled up on the white sand with ocean in background it would save 1000 words!
Protected by the groyne there is no noticeable current, and no waves in the picture only a small chop on the ocean surface indicating a light wind.

Below is an excerpt from article from 2000 (time of when car was found is wrong) discussing how headlights were on and front window open. Doesn’t say about how crushed the car was! Other reports have said the headlights were still on and the car upside down, as well as the back seat taken out before the car entered the ocean and was found at another beach (not sure how far).
Source: The Sunday Times (Perth, Western Australia, Australia). (July 9, 2000): News: p004 From Infotrac Newsstand.Document Type: ArticleCopyright: COPYRIGHT 2000 News Limited http://sundaytimes.com.au/

“At 12.30am on June 20, 1988 Ms Cutler left the Parmelia Hotel, after a staff function. She was never seen again.
Weeks later (inaccuracy it was early Mon22nd the car was spotted), Ms Cutler’s empty two-tone grey 1963 Fiat was spotted in the ocean off Cottesloe Surf Club boatsheds.
Forensic tests showed that the ignition and headlights had been on when the car entered the water, the front driver’s side window was open, the rear doors were locked and both front doors were unlocked.
Police ruled out suicide because Ms Cutler’s body would have been washed ashore if she had driven the car into the surf.”

“No name” thanks also for your descriptions of how the sand stepped to the paths and how this changed at different times, I also remember it being like this. However I only remember the path going along part way to the groyne and then going up to the surf club. I think this pathway was only extended later when they upgraded the groyne. I did walk this pathway many times as a Cott SLSC member. Boards and skis were stored in the clubhouse at the top of the hill at the time.

From memory the only way possible for a vehicle to get on the groyne was to drive along the sand, and this is what the beach life guard’s 4WD did occasionally. It was also the only vehicle that I ever remember going on to the groyne. Sometimes the 4WD had to use the boat ramp and other he could drive straight off the beach access road, to get onto the sand. There was also a decent lip from the sand to the groyne which couldn’t always be negotiated.

I don’t think it is possible at all for car to be driven directly into the water and end up damaged like it was.

I only think there is a slight possibility the car could access the groyne, but then in a driverless state and possibly having to use a ramp, as the rocks would still be 50 to 60 cm high, that it could be launched off the groyne, bounce on the rocks causing the roof to be crushed almost to the bonnet and then bounce into the ocean, is not a possibility for me. A crash of that significance would be heard by many nearby residents, but wasn’t.

Disposing of the car in water could have been a good way of destroying evidence but lots of other ways to do that. I agree with other suggestions that the car was a sign or IMO a West directional beacon, important enough for someone to go to the extraordinary amount of trouble to dispose of it in the ocean at Cottesloe beach.

 

[Innerchild]

Is there any chance the car was dumped the next night after jc last seen , night of 21st ?)


See the water on the sand behind car indicates wave action .

"He who waits" australian story documentary link for car
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...php?p=12572876

Pretty sure JC last confirmed sighting was in car park of Parmelia Hilton at 12.30 am on the 20th June 1988 (Saturday morning after working Friday night).
Car was found 50m off Cott SLSC boatshed (now Indiana) in the early morning of Monday 22nd June. Possible dumped around 2.00am (night of 21st June).
Is this the winter solstice?

 

[petedavo.au]

Great photo Noname! Certainly looks like the '80s. Remember when that many people actually swam, for our non locals many less visit the beach (sharks?skin cancer?ipads??). I remember old fisherman panel vans on the groyne along with fishing line on the old power line between light poles. This photo has the single (current) light..but there was vehicular access on the herringbone brick path in the '80s and conc flyover in the '70s. Oh and connected to the case I don't think it's the CSK, someone infatuated with or felt jilted by JC. BRE out of her league and social set? (IMO)


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http://surfingdownsouth.com.au/tag/city-beach-tea-rooms/

This pic is from Floreat Groyne, just up the coast from Cottesloe. Now that I think of it, this is much how the Cottesloe groyne looked when I was a kid. And there was a wooden walkway on the north side of it that we used to play under. There wasn't a bitumen car park then, just a road onto the groyne and ramp, and everyone parked under the Norfolk Island Pines, which is now blocked off and grassed over.

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[Innerchild]

Thread # 5
05-21-2016, 12:39 PM#423
BenJones84
Former Member
Join Date
Apr 2016
Posts
40
Originally Posted by elastic
to assume the CSK is plotting wuith his dump sites, and tagetting victims based on their irish names/meanings/links is also concerning.
The CSK is clearly positioning the bodies with high accuracy. The killer must have a very good knowledge of maps. In 1996, there was no google earth, definitely someone with an interest in orienteering.. but hey look who I'm explaiing it to.

Attached Images
11tq5wi.jpg (77.0 KB, 125 views)
2m3mz4g.jpg (62.4 KB, 126 views)

I have attached images posted by Ben Jones in #5. Instead of regarding Cottesloe beach as due west", if you fix an east- west line to the image with respect to the north - south line of JR and CG centering on the Conti, where would this line pass through?

Could it be a directional marker for SS? Parkerville?

 

[meticulously]

Pretty sure JC last confirmed sighting was in car park of Parmelia Hilton at 12.30 am on the 20th June 1988 (Saturday morning after working Friday night).
Car was found 50m off Cott SLSC boatshed (now Indiana) in the early morning of Monday 22nd June. Possible dumped around 2.00am (night of 21st June).
Is this the winter solstice?

"Protected by the groyne there is no noticeable current, and no waves in the picture only a small chop on the ocean surface indicating a light wind."

"Tide was coming in at the rate of 25cm over 13 ½ hours when the car was put into water."

#Innerchild if the car was directly in front of the clubhouse that puts it at a distance to the groyne wouldn't it ?

#Innerchild Where are you seeing the picture indicating "a small chop and light wind"
During the days 20th-22nd june 1988 ?

Both the two tide charts linked in previous posts are reporting differing times & tide levels . the barometric pressure at the time is a factor which can change things drastically.
The synoptic charts i posted have part of the info needed , theres no evidence of how big the swell was, which could be up to 3metres off cottesloe being mid winter . the charts i posted are the 21st & 22nd june when its the days before that are most important (17th-20th june) moo .
http://www.linz.govt.nz/sea/tides/introduction-tides/meteorological-effects-tides

 

[petedavo.au]

Obviously, this guy that Estelle Blackburn is talking about isn't BRE, nor the rogue Police Recruit In the 1986 story with the road rage mania, but it might still be of interest in regards Julie Cutler.
http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2007/s2089795.htm

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[Canning Vale]

Traffic Branch did basically what the RTA used to do except the licensing, plus they ran the 2 booze buses, and the speed cameras from the old RTA building in Plain St. There was also a unit called Police Escort that escorted oversized loads. I think they were based in Welshpool at the Main Roads Depot and then it was privatised or contracted out. CIB had unmarked vehicles which were all the same with antennae always in the same location, (in the 70's they were all white Kingswoods with a drive to stay alive sticker on the rear bumper and a vhf antenna on the right rear panel, when they changed to XD falcons, they did exactly the same thing, as I remember a school friend upon getting his first car, a white XD falcon buying a CB antenna and placing it in the same spot, and saying "reckon I'll get away with speeding cause it looks look a demon?".


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Thank you for the response petedavo..

From what I can remember Traffic Branch in the early 1990s didn’t always communicate well with the police. For instance, my husband and I witnessed a break-in with a woman nearby waiting in a getaway car. Traffic Branch attended the scene, obtained the woman’s details and vehicle details but neglected to stop the robbery in progress. The following days after, my husband phoned the police several times, but had difficulties persuading them that the vehicle was involved in the robbery – eventually they understood.

Also, during the 1990s there didn’t seem to be many police rostered on and when we did call them they could take hours to attend – Traffic Branch were probably used if they were in the area.

 

[Canning Vale]

BRE turned 17 in December 1985, so he probably got his driver's licence about then. He started work with Telecom in 1986.

 

[Canning Vale]

Is there anyone who lived in the Gosnells or Huntingdale area during the mid 1980s. BRE probably rode a bicycle back and forth to school. Near to G High School is a pathway which runs alongside the river. Does anyone remember BRE as a youth? Any sports that he played after school?

 

[petedavo.au]

Someone suggested a mentor, One POI (whose not BRE) for KT and JC appears to have online playing records as a former player at http://thornliecc.wa.cricket.com.au
Anybody know if BRE was in any Cricket Clubs? Especially Thornlie?

 

[Innerchild]

Good pick up Meticulously! All the newspaper articles have JC disappearing early morning on the 20th June and her car turning up 2 days later on 22nd June in ocean off Cott beach. This would indicate a Sunday night function and her car turning up early on a Wednesday morning.

I was convinced she disappeared after a Friday night function but this would make the date 18th June and her car being found early morning on Monday 20th June.

Now I'm not sure if the dates are correct, or the days??

The tide charts in your post include the sunrise and sunset which makes it a little difficult to read. However its almost same as "no names" post.

Low tide of .53m at 9.00 pm Sunday 19th and high tide of .95m at 11.23 am Monday 20th June. Tide coming in. Tidal difference of 42 cm from low to high in approx 13 1/2 hours.

Low tide of .59m at 8.57 pm Tues 21st and high tide of .85m at 9.30 am Wed 22nd June. Tide coming in. Tidal difference of 26 cm from low to high over approx 12 1/2 hours.

I believe I showed the tide on 21st to 22nd from "no names" info and seems same tidal difference but over slightly smaller time period, as yours.

Car would have been around 50 m horizontally or parallel to shore from groyne if it was in front of boatshed, and it was reported 50 m out to sea.

The picture was of the car after being towed out of the ocean. I saw the picture on websleuths and thought I copied it onto a word doc. I have probably saved over this .doc and now can't find it and have been trying to find it again in websleuths. It came up when people were discussing JC previously. Others recently (around Feb) have been also talking about and trying to find same photo, I believe.

The car was sitting on white sand to the right of the photo and to the left it showed the ocean with no swell or waves and only a slight wind chop. It also showed an average amount of white sand for Cott beach, nothing like wild high tide photos that have been put up. I originally thought the photo was the same as the thumbprint photo of the crushed JC car that is on this thread, but now don't think it was.

I am well aware of some of the winter seas and winter sand patterns we get at Cott beach, but it was not at all like that and calm, with small tidal movement coming in.

 

[meticulously]

rsbm

Car would have been around 50 m horizontally or parallel to shore from groyne if it was in front of boatshed, and it was reported 50 m out to sea.

The picture was of the car after being towed out of the ocean. I saw the picture on websleuths and thought I copied it onto a word doc. I have probably saved over this .doc and now can't find it and have been trying to find it again in websleuths. It came up when people were discussing JC previously. Others recently (around Feb) have been also talking about and trying to find same photo, I believe.

The car was sitting on white sand to the right of the photo and to the left it showed the ocean with no swell or waves and only a slight wind chop. It also showed an average amount of white sand for Cott beach, nothing like wild high tide photos that have been put up. I originally thought the photo was the same as the thumbprint photo of the crushed JC car that is on this thread, but now don't think it was.

I am well aware of some of the winter seas and winter sand patterns we get at Cott beach, but it was not at all like that and calm, with small tidal movement coming in.

Thanks #Innerchild thats very helpful .

synoptic chart 21-6-88 . Showing
Fine weather & northerly winds , these winds indicate the southward flowing leeuwin current would be the predominant flow, if any.
I'm not suggesting a strong current but mostly pointing out that if the car went off the groyne it wouldn't drift north ,as the leeuwin current is opposite flowing south.

BTW #Innerchild,
I am the poster who posted the pictures of the car a few months ago iirc , think im the first poster who has done since #papertrail did so a year or more ago .
That picture shown is just copied &
cropped from the original #papertrail post, its on this page above .
I haven't seen the picture your looking for and will be suprised to find if i have missed it .
This is cropped from one of 6 frames from the c/ghost vids and the source of the pics i posted .