Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[sosocurious]

He sold his business a few years ago and moved to the Port Macquarie area to be with his wife and family.

http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/s...gton-man-investigated-in-william-tyrell-case/

Was he not with his wife and family for a while before relocating?

 

[frogwell]

Apparently there was no suspicion of sexual assault of either of these victims by B.S. reported by the victims mother prior to the 1987 event. Given her and the children had lived for a month with a convicted paedophile (who had a proclivity to rape girls under 10) earlier in the year, did it occur to her or her mother to volunteer this information to doctors and DOCS workers when the injuries were discovered? If not, I would be highly suspicious of the reasons why. MOO

 

[frogwell]

So the child mentioned in this post is a different child than the two girls?

I think all the allegations in the article come from one of the victims. MOO

 

[sosocurious]

Apparently there was no suspicion of sexual assault of either of these victims by B.S. reported by the victims mother prior to the 1987 event. Given her and the children had lived for a month with a convicted paedophile (who had a proclivity to rape girls under 10) earlier in the year, did it occur to her or her mother to volunteer this information to doctors and DOCS workers when the injuries were discovered? If not, I would be highly suspicious of the reasons why. MOO

A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and *bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.
The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2

Maybe she did frog but she was never heard. We hear so much about victims being silenced and I guess her suspicions may have needed to be substantiated.
This was 3 decades ago.

The court documents also allege Mr Spedding threatened his two victims not to tell anyone about what had taken place.
“The above practices were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’,” police allege.
“There were also threats made to one (victim) that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other (victim) would be harmed.”
Both alleged victims reported the abuse in 1987, the statement of facts allege. Their claims were also supported by medical evidence and case notes from the time, police allege.

ww.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/bill-spedding-refused-bail-over-child-sex-abuse-charges/news-story/0cfed148876894827911a87f4aefaca4

 

[Karinna]

A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and *bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.
The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2

Maybe she did frog but she was never heard. We hear so much about victims being silenced and I guess her suspicions may have needed to be substantiated.
This was 3 decades ago.

The court documents also allege Mr Spedding threatened his two victims not to tell anyone about what had taken place.
“The above practices were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’,” police allege.
“There were also threats made to one (victim) that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other (victim) would be harmed.”
Both alleged victims reported the abuse in 1987, the statement of facts allege. Their claims were also supported by medical evidence and case notes from the time, police allege.

ww.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/bill-spedding-refused-bail-over-child-sex-abuse-charges/news-story/0cfed148876894827911a87f4aefaca4

BBM, I agree victims need to be heard. And any child abuse case investigated properly. From what we know the case of child sexual abuse against the two girls was reported and investigated at the time regarding BS, and no charges and arrest were made.
I wonder why he and the mother of the girls divorced? Was it a nasty divorce?
I ask that because i have known of women to pull all kinds of stunts on an ex partner. Men are also falsely accused of child molestation in certain cases, in a nasty divorce, because some women want to cut the partner out of their child's life for monetary reasons etc.
The two girls in question here were definitely molested but by whom? Was there DNA evidence taken from them at the hospital at the time i wonder? It is so important to have forensic evidence IMO, otherwise its a he said she said.
I don't know what happened in BS & his ex's case.

 

[frogwell]

A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and *bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.
The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2

Maybe she did frog but she was never heard. We hear so much about victims being silenced and I guess her suspicions may have needed to be substantiated.
This was 3 decades ago.

The court documents also allege Mr Spedding threatened his two victims not to tell anyone about what had taken place.
“The above practices were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’,” police allege.
“There were also threats made to one (victim) that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other (victim) would be harmed.”
Both alleged victims reported the abuse in 1987, the statement of facts allege. Their claims were also supported by medical evidence and case notes from the time, police allege.

ww.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/bill-spedding-refused-bail-over-child-sex-abuse-charges/news-story/0cfed148876894827911a87f4aefaca4

Or maybe she was everything the judge described at the time.
https://jade.io/article/151822 In this link at point 16 "The sentencing judge referred to his quite unfortunate upbringing and the effect of the psychological and psychiatric evidence before him."

That line in J.H.'s file makes me wonder what kind of a home C.H. grew up in, let alone the trauma and stigma of her brother's behaviour upon the family.

The judge who described her was from a family court matter and this was after the 1987 assaults were discovered and B.S. had been cleared in the investigation. By the end of 1987, B.S. was with M.S. It would be interesting to note who the other men were that she had made similar allegations against.

 

[frogwell]

BBM, I agree victims need to be heard. And any child abuse case investigated properly. From what we know the case of child sexual abuse against the two girls was reported and investigated at the time regarding BS, and no charges and arrest were made.
I wonder why he and the mother of the girls divorced? Was it a nasty divorce?
I ask that because i have known of women to pull all kinds of stunts on an ex partner. Men are also falsely accused of child molestation in certain cases, in a nasty divorce, because some women want to cut the partner out of their child's life for monetary reasons etc.
The two girls in question here were definitely molested but by whom? Was there DNA evidence taken from them at the hospital at the time i wonder? It is so important to have forensic evidence IMO, otherwise its a he said she said.
I don't know what happened in BS & his ex's case.

I would say it would have been a difficult separation given the allegations against B.S., around the crime that happened to the victims. I do not know if this event is what perpetuated the separation or if the separation was already underway when the event occurred. If J.H. did the crime, his family may have thought it might have tarnished their chances of having custody/ access to the victims let alone having to explain to the victims as they grew older how this assault was able to happen to them.MOO

 

[Karinna]

I would say it would have been a difficult separation given the allegations against B.S., around the crime that happened to the victims. I do not know if this event is what perpetuated the separation or if the separation was already underway when the event occurred. If J.H. did the crime, his family may have thought it might have tarnished their chances of having custody/ access to the victims let alone having to explain to the victims as they grew older how this assault was able to happen to them.MOO

I agree, and we are not privy to all the information surrounding the people in question, IMO.
But i am of the opinion in order to convict someone of such a heinous crime there has to be strong evidence as to who exactly the perpetrator of the crimes were against the girls.
And from what i have read it is not known exactly when the abuse happened, which makes it difficult to pinpoint without forensics.

 

[sosocurious]

BBM, I agree victims need to be heard. And any child abuse case investigated properly. From what we know the case of child sexual abuse against the two girls was reported and investigated at the time regarding BS, and no charges and arrest were made.
I wonder why he and the mother of the girls divorced? Was it a nasty divorce?
I ask that because i have known of women to pull all kinds of stunts on an ex partner. Men are also falsely accused of child molestation in certain cases, in a nasty divorce, because some women want to cut the partner out of their child's life for monetary reasons etc.
The two girls in question here were definitely molested but by whom? Was there DNA evidence taken from them at the hospital at the time i wonder? It is so important to have forensic evidence IMO, otherwise its a he said she said.
I don't know what happened in BS & his ex's case.

Yes I agree Karrina there are so many ifs and buts.
I guess the fact is that right now in Feb 2017 BS is on trial for the sexual abuse of young girls in a caravan at Campbelltown in April / May of 1987 and there must be a bloody good reason for that. imo
Sano taskforce is the prosecuting agency for charges that he will be fronting court for in Victoria on 30 March 2017.

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

 

[purpleandgreen]

Great sleuthing with that link soso.

https://www.victas.uca.org.au/communityservices/Documents/Sano.pdf

Now that adds a whole new dimension!

Yes I agree Karrina there are so many ifs and buts.
I guess the fact is that right now in Feb 2017 BS is on trial for the sexual abuse of young girls in a caravan at Campbelltown in April / May of 1987 and there must be a bloody good reason for that. imo
Sano taskforce is the prosecuting agency for charges that he will be fronting court for in Victoria on 30 March 2017.

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

 

[Karinna]

Yes I agree Karrina there are so many ifs and buts.
I guess the fact is that right now in Feb 2017 BS is on trial for the sexual abuse of young girls in a caravan at Campbelltown in April / May of 1987 and there must be a bloody good reason for that. imo
Sano taskforce is the prosecuting agency for charges that he will be fronting court for in Victoria on 30 March 2017.

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

This Sano taskforce?
(quote)
Vic Police considering investigation into taskforce over Pell media leak
Updated 22 Feb 2016, 4:06pm

Some leaders within the Catholic Church are worried that sexual abuse allegations recently levelled against Cardinal George Pell could compromise the integrity of the Royal Commission, currently sitting in Ballarat. Victoria Police says it's considering launching an internal investigation into the SANO taskforce, over a leak to the media that detectives are looking into claims Cardinal George Pell abused children over four decades.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/vic-police-considering-investigation-into/7189374

 

[sosocurious]

This Sano taskforce?
(quote)
Vic Police considering investigation into taskforce over Pell media leak
Updated 22 Feb 2016, 4:06pm

Some leaders within the Catholic Church are worried that sexual abuse allegations recently levelled against Cardinal George Pell could compromise the integrity of the Royal Commission, currently sitting in Ballarat. Victoria Police says it's considering launching an internal investigation into the SANO taskforce, over a leak to the media that detectives are looking into claims Cardinal George Pell abused children over four decades.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/vic-police-considering-investigation-into/7189374

Leaks ..

The closed-door inquiry – organised via the National Committee for Professional Standards, which also oversees the abuse complaints processes for the Catholic Church, Towards Healing – concluded that both the complainant and the Cardinal were honest witnesses.
"I accept as correct the submission of (counsel) that the complainant, when giving evidence of molesting, gave the impression that he was speaking honestly from an actual recollection. However, the respondent, also, gave me the impression that he was speaking the truth," Mr Southwell said.

The absence of forensic evidence due to the 40-year interval since the alleged offence, the complainant's credibility, lack of corroborative evidence and Cardinal Pell's sworn denial of the accusations were key factors in the inquiry's conclusion, Mr Southwell said at the time.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/c...sexual-abuse-allegations-20160219-gmz080.html

A sworn declaration ..denying the allegations of sexual abuse was a key factor. hmmm

But this thread is not about Pell.
It is it about William Tyrrell a little boy who disappeared on the 12 Sept 2014.:tears:
BS remains a POI in his disappearance it does seems. As he has not been cleared as far as I am aware.
He is currently facing numerous charges of having sexually abused children in two states.

There were no leaks with BS as far as Sano goes. His solicitor tried to get the details suppressed in Victoria. The judge ruled, No.
imo

 

[frogwell]

Yes I agree Karrina there are so many ifs and buts.
I guess the fact is that right now in Feb 2017 BS is on trial for the sexual abuse of young girls in a caravan at Campbelltown in April / May of 1987 and there must be a bloody good reason for that. imo
Sano taskforce is the prosecuting agency for charges that he will be fronting court for in Victoria on 30 March 2017.

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

Well call me cynical, but the NSW police have put a huge amount of resources into WT's case. Seems BS fits their profile but they can't place him there and so far he has a clean record. I am greatly concerned that this judge will not allow a whole lot of evidence in B.S. defence around Hillsley and the public will not be allowed to witness it. I guess I don't have as much faith in the police and judiciary as many others on this forum do. I think there would be a lot of leaning in this case as this is a very high profile case and the NSW government do not want to look bad even though they were WT's guardian at the time he disappeared, something they won't even publicly acknowledge. So they throw all their weight behind the case with a lot of tax payers money to pay for extra resources and to cough up a $1 million reward if required. FACS, Police and now the judiciary are all government departments under huge pressure to get WT's case to a resolution. How they go about that worries me.MOO

 

[Karinna]

Leaks ..

The closed-door inquiry – organised via the National Committee for Professional Standards, which also oversees the abuse complaints processes for the Catholic Church, Towards Healing – concluded that both the complainant and the Cardinal were honest witnesses.
"I accept as correct the submission of (counsel) that the complainant, when giving evidence of molesting, gave the impression that he was speaking honestly from an actual recollection. However, the respondent, also, gave me the impression that he was speaking the truth," Mr Southwell said.

The absence of forensic evidence due to the 40-year interval since the alleged offence, the complainant's credibility, lack of corroborative evidence and Cardinal Pell's sworn denial of the accusations were key factors in the inquiry's conclusion, Mr Southwell said at the time.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/c...sexual-abuse-allegations-20160219-gmz080.html

A sworn declaration ..denying the allegations of sexual abuse was a key factor. hmmm

But this thread is not about Pell.
It is it about William Tyrrell a little boy who disappeared on the 12 Sept 2014.:tears:
BS remains a POI in his disappearance it does seems. As he has not been cleared as far as I am aware.
He is currently facing numerous charges of having sexually abused children in two states.

There were no leaks with BS as far as Sano goes. His solicitor tried to get the details suppressed in Victoria. The judge ruled, No.
imo

It has nothing to do with Pell, but more to do with SANO. I think its called tainting a potential jury pre Trial?
Oh yes there have been plenty of leaks about BS in the msn, why? To sway public opinion? He is only a POI among many others but was placed out there as a suspect IMO.
A POI in and of itself means nothing until it changes from POI to suspect.

 

[Karinna]

Well call me cynical, but the NSW police have put a huge amount of resources into WT's case. Seems BS fits their profile but they can't place him there and so far he has a clean record. I am greatly concerned that this judge will not allow a whole lot of evidence in B.S. defence around Hillsley and the public will not be allowed to witness it. MOO

Does the public in Australia normally get to witness a Trial?

 

[frogwell]

Does the public in Australia normally get to witness a Trial?

There are many trials that are reported on publicly. I e-mailed The Australian and The Daily Telegraph, both have reported extensively on B.S. and asked if they would be covering the trials. Sarah Crawford from The daily telegraph replied that they intended to and had lawyers at the court arguing about suppression orders which the judge had decided to place over all of the evidence hearing. She said the judge would revisit the suppression orders when the trial starts in proper on the 20/02/2017 (tomorrow) and that the lawyers for the journalists would be back at court again on that date to argue their points.

 

[Karinna]

There are many trials that are reported on publicly. I e-mailed The Australian and The Daily Telegraph, both have reported extensively on B.S. and asked if they would be covering the trials. Sarah Crawford from The daily telegraph replied that they intended to and had lawyers at the court arguing about suppression orders which the judge had decided to place over all of the evidence hearing. She said the judge would revisit the suppression orders when the trial starts in proper on the 20/02/2017 (tomorrow) and that the lawyers for the journalists would be back at court again on that date to argue their points.

Thanks for your reply and info. I think i meant more that are Trials normally televised in Aus.? I can't think of any offhand, but have lived in both the U.S.A. & Aus. and currently back in Aus.

 

[frogwell]

No we don't televise trials, not even photos in the courtroom howeverI have noticed that the judge may be filmed sometimes in some sentencings recently, which is a very big change. Or I am possibly mistaken and it is the handing down of findings from the coroners court. MOO

 

[Karinna]

No we don't televise trials, not even photos in the courtroom howeverI have noticed that the judge may be filmed sometimes in some sentencings recently, which is a very big change. Or I am possibly mistaken and it is the handing down of findings from the coroners court. MOO

Thankyou for clarifying.

 

[Karinna]

I also think its very sad there is no further news on William's case, and he has to be out there somewhere,
I am just hopeful someone that loves and cares about him has him and he just hasn't been found yet.