AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[Shelby2]

Sierra's case was completely different. She was either snatched or got into a vehicle and her bookbag with clothes was left/thrown/placed outside where it was found. LE knew a red car was involved and they had a geo area to focus on/around.

None of those factors exist in Isa's case. A grid search works when there's a specific and identifiable central geographical point and a search extends from there covering a finite amount of acreage.

What is that geographical point in which to set up a grid? What information is pointing to this area?

They start at her home and go from there? There has to be a better reason than they don't know where to look. A grid search could turn up something, who knows. Maybe they did a grid search of the neighborhood already, I don't know.

 

[FrayedKnot]

They start at her home and go from there? There has to be a better reason than they don't know where to look. A grid search could turn up something, who knows. Maybe they did a grid search of the neighborhood already, I don't know.

ITA. Look where poor Caylee was found. And that area had been searched.

 

[pieper4]

Sad reality. I'm the only person viewing this thread right now.

Time to step up TPD/FBI. If you got it, show it. Otherwise the public's lost the passion needed to help you out.

 

[Prof]

Personally, I don't see an empty thread at 2 or 3 am PST as indicative of the public's lack of passion...
Being in PST, I have noted through the years that most threads stay most active in EST average waking hours.
I would not call a file name on blog an accurate determiner that Isa's case has gone cold.
LE has stated recently enough for me that they are actively working on this case.
JMO

 

[iSleuth]

I was thinking about the abduction of Jaycee Dugard in relation to Isa yesterday. Jaycee was stolen, in broad daylight, with multiple witnesses and even her stepdad chasing after her. Yet, the finger of suspicion was on him for all those years, up until she emerged as an adult. The suspicion was so strong (even though there wasn't any evidence that he had harmed her, just normal familial stuff that might "look" suspicious under a microscope) that it led to the divorce of Jaycee's mom from the stepdad. Looking back, I wonder how anyone really thought he could have been behind her disappearance, and for what end.

I feel like the same thing is happening to SC and RC. I don't believe Mr. Celis is a criminal mastermind that could outsmart the TPD or the FBI. I also believe that if he did something to Isa, her remains would have been found already. In my opinion, due to lack of evidence pointing to the abductor (criminals get lucky, too), the only place LE has to look is at the Celis couple. And unfortunately, that is not going to bring Isa home.

Despite his claim that Isabel was " abducted", the cases are very different because SC did not actually see someone/anyone take IC.

JD's stepfather actually stated that he was watching her walk to the bus stop when he saw the car pull up and the Garridos kidnap her. ( God bless JD)

SC said that he had "no idea" why he thought she had been abducted and he never heard( saw) anything.

To me similarities can be drawn between IC , MM, and LI

3 children in family
Screen ( claim/tampering??)
911 call or somethings sketchy surrounding (early) contact w/ LE
Timeline issues
Behavior ( questionable) pre/post
K9 ( alerts)
close knit family and or community( with something at stake)
numerous confusing/confounding: sitings or evidence.

Please feel free to add to the list.

:cow:

Prayers for Isabel, Lisa, Maddie ( and of course all the victims of abuse)

 

[GutFeeling!]

So you mean, CPS say, only one parent can stay, but the parents choose which one?

No.

CPS do not arrange no-contact orders lightly. It is actually the most stringent condition they can put on a parent, short of getting them arrested. It is only the suspected perpetrator who is subject to any conditions...the susperp doesn't get to choose his wife to take the rap for him. In this case CPS clearly believe the boys are safe with RC, but not with SC.

I hope they are still searching for Isabel. They need to find her and bring her home! Find her and they find the truth.:maddening:

BBM That is just not true. Read my previous posts to see why

 

[Dr. Know?]

It's news. Good or bad we have some news!

Celis case detectives keep search warrant sealed

CREATED 6:42 PM

But detectives have asked over and over to keep the warrants sealed. They requested 30 days under seal at first; then another 45, then yet another 45 days.

That means the warrants will probably be locked up until late August---about four months after Isabel's disappearance.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/160916585.html

 

[time]

It's news. Good or bad we have some news!

Celis case detectives keep search warrant sealed

CREATED 6:42 PM

But detectives have asked over and over to keep the warrants sealed. They requested 30 days under seal at first; then another 45, then yet another 45 days.

That means the warrants will probably be locked up until late August---about four months after Isabel's disappearance.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/160916585.html

Thank you. There must be something they really don't want public? I hope that's a good thing. But too bad we don't know any more.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Makes no sense as far as it being just evidence on the family.. number one, the family knows what evidence was found with them guilty of the crime(they committed it..its their home)..number two, certainly the public is aware that the supposed focus is solely on this family and seemingly no where else..

It seems to me atleast in theory that the evidence could very likely show involvement of another party that LE desperately wish to keep in the frame of mind that they are not suspected and no evidence leading anywhere except for family.. IMO for obvious strategic reasons that would make sense..

With not knowing it of course could go either way but IMO it strictly being evidence of family guilt wouldn't make sense for the above reasons and the obvious desperate need LE feel to keep the evidence unknown still.. jmo nothing more..

 

[SapphireSteel]

]Makes no sense as far as it being just evidence on the family.. number one, the family knows what evidence was found with them guilty of the crime(they committed it..its their home)[/B]..number two, certainly the public is aware that the supposed focus is solely on this family and seemingly no where else..

It seems to me atleast in theory that the evidence could very likely show involvement of another party that LE desperately wish to keep in the frame of mind that they are not suspected and no evidence leading anywhere except for family.. IMO for obvious strategic reasons that would make sense..

With not knowing it of course could go either way but IMO it strictly being evidence of family guilt wouldn't make sense for the above reasons and the obvious desperate need LE feel to keep the evidence unknown still.. jmo nothing more..

I don't think the family would necessarily know what forensics LE have come up with, these tests are advancing almost daily. They also have no way to know what LE may have learned from friends/neighbours/onlookers.

 

[Prof]

I am not following... posters seemed to be specifically responding to the search warrants not being released. The information in the search warrants would not have results from forensic tests. I don't think all friends, or all neighbors or all onlookers had search warrants served either...

 

[SmoothOperator]

I don't think the family would necessarily know what forensics LE have come up with, these tests are advancing almost daily. They also have no way to know what LE may have learned from friends/neighbours/onlookers.

As prof stated above search warrants DO NOT YIELD forensic testing results, nor anything else that you refer to.. search warrants and onlookers? Search warrants and discussions with friends and neighbors? ..those issues have zero to do with the search warrants..

 

[pieper4]

A search warrant release often includes transcripts of detectives convincing the judge to issue the warrant. They tell the judge what they think they may find. After the search, detectives report what they did find.

BBM. From the article posted at http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/160916585.html

Perhaps that is where posters are "getting" or extrapolating info/hopes. I dunno. I'm not them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

As prof stated above search warrants DO NOT YIELD forensic testing results, nor anything else that you refer to.. search warrants and onlookers? Search warrants and discussions with friends and neighbors? ..those issues have zero to do with the search warrants..

I'm sorry, you seem to misunderstand.

I was referring to your statement when you said this

Makes no sense as far as it being just evidence on the family.. number one, the family knows what evidence was found with them guilty of the crime(they committed it..its their home

I was not referring what is IN the warrants, I was referring to your assumption that the family would KNOW what forensic evidence was found if they were indeed guilty.

IMO they would not know...forensic science is incredible these days and LE have resources far beyond even what we can imagine.

One thing I am sure of, is that the family ARE NOT criminal masterminds with a superior or intimate knowlege of crime scene, forensic testing, witness statements or any other evidence LE may have.

I repeat, most offenders are caught by an OVERLOOKED DETAIL. No crime is perfect, and every offender leaves something behind. There is no way for an offender to know exactly what he has left behind at a scene...if there was, it wouldn't be left behind!

 

[SapphireSteel]

A search warrant release often includes transcripts of detectives convincing the judge to issue the warrant. They tell the judge what they think they may find. After the search, detectives report what they did find.

BBM. From the article posted at http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/160916585.html

Perhaps that is where posters are "getting" or extrapolating info/hopes. I dunno. I'm not them.

As they have refused to reveal the contents of the warrants, this indicates to me that the contents DO NOT support the unknown abductor theory.

There would be no reason to keep the warrants sealed, if they supported an unknown abductor theory IMO.

The warrants seem to mainly focus on the children's bedrooms from what BC herself said. This suggests to me that LE thinks something happened IN those bedrooms - not outside of, not at a secondary crime scene, but actually INSIDE the house.

IMO.

 

[SmoothOperator]

A search warrant release often includes transcripts of detectives convincing the judge to issue the warrant. They tell the judge what they think they may find. After the search, detectives report what they did find.

BBM. From the article posted at http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/160916585.html

Perhaps that is where posters are "getting" or extrapolating info/hopes. I dunno. I'm not them.

Uh. .yea they report what's found in the search that the warrant was for.. :doh: forensic testing result? ..uh.. no.. hopes? ..really?

Really what does it matter that some people choose to look at this case from what may be a very different angle than what some others may choose to look at it from? .. its really an issue with this case and has obviously caused problems throughout sadly.. i don't get it and it makes for hostility that's for certain.. what does anyone care if one of us wants to look at the case and presume the family is not guilty? ..so what its just the same for those that are looking at the case and presuming the family is guilty.. its an opinion.. a personal choice or way they are viewing the case.. and in looking at it from that angle are discussing how particular aspects with there being so many unknowns can be viewed slightly or even very drastically different..

But it seems to be that the discussion of a differing view is being perceived as fierce family loyalty.. or blind dumbness.. when honestly its neither of the two whatsoever.. the vast majority that tend to view the case from more a presumed not guilty of the family ..most reside nowhere near Tucson, AZ and have zero ties to this family whatsoever..its being perceived and at times accused to be something that its not..

Its a personal opinion.. personal choice.. personal view of how one, some, a few, etc of us are looking at the case.. and in it being a different view from others there is going to be discussion and aspects not looked at the same..

Its a very basic concept here.. one that exists on every single case and sub forum within this site.. yet for some reason is a very real problem in this case and these threads for Isabel Celis.. *shrug*

 

[pieper4]

Uh. .yea they report what's found in the search that the warrant was for.. :doh: forensic testing result? ..uh.. no.. hopes? ..really?

Really what does it matter that some people choose to look at this case from what may be a very different angle than what some others may choose to look at it from? .. its really an issue with this case and has obviously caused problems throughout sadly.. i don't get it and it makes for hostility that's for certain.. what does anyone care if one of us wants to look at the case and presume the family is not guilty? ..so what its just the same for those that are looking at the case and presuming the family is guilty.. its an opinion.. a personal choice or way they are viewing the case.. and in looking at it from that angle are discussing how particular aspects with there being so many unknowns can be viewed slightly or even very drastically different..

But it seems to be that the discussion of a differing view is being perceived as fierce family loyalty.. or blind dumbness.. when honestly its neither of the two whatsoever.. the vast majority that tend to view the case from more a presumed not guilty of the family ..most reside nowhere near Tucson, AZ and have zero ties to this family whatsoever..its being perceived and at times accused to be something that its not..

Its a personal opinion.. personal choice.. personal view of how one, some, a few, etc of us are looking at the case.. and in it being a different view from others there is going to be discussion and aspects not looked at the same..

Its a very basic concept here.. one that exists on every single case and sub forum within this site.. yet for some reason is a very real problem in this case and these threads for Isabel Celis.. *shrug*

As I said, I am merely providing a possible context or interpretation for others' posts. I posted nothing of the sort.

For me, I think she's alive. I think at least one parent knows where she is. So to me unsealing the warrants matters not until LE is ready to do so. Hopefully in conjunction with an arrest/arrests.

 

[white rabbit]

could a lawyer (preferably from arizona) chime in here so we know what we're talking about? i sure don't. lol.

http://arizonalawcenter.com/offenses/search-warrant.html

"A search warrant is usually sought when the police suspect someone of a crime and want to search their property, their workplace, their vehicles or some other place where they can legally store information and keep it from others."

now, we know they had warrants for the celis home, RR's truck, and the neighbor (i forgot what street it was on) where the dogs scent-tracked.

so what is in these warrants that the TPD does not want us to see? i agree forensic results won't be included...so we have two childrens' bedrooms, an uncle's truck, and a neighbor. which of the above is so "sensitive" that they don't want us to know what they were looking for?

 

[white rabbit]

i'm re-reading this article and a comment i found interesting...

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

"The reality of the situation is that we still could go a couple of different ways with this investigation," Villasenor said.
Investigators are narrowing everything down to a couple of working premises, Villasenor said."

how many different ways can you go with a stranger abduction? only one, IMO...which leads me to believe (however incorrectly it may be at this time) that they're looking at either one or multiple perps with one or multiple parties involved in a cover-up. which leads me to believe, unfortunately, the perp(s) lie within the immediate family...

JMO.

 

[iSleuth]

could a lawyer (preferably from arizona) chime in here so we know what we're talking about? i sure don't. lol.

http://arizonalawcenter.com/offenses/search-warrant.html

"A search warrant is usually sought when the police suspect someone of a crime and want to search their property, their workplace, their vehicles or some other place where they can legally store information and keep it from others."

now, we know they had warrants for the celis home, RR's truck, and the neighbor (i forgot what street it was on) where the dogs scent-tracked.

so what is in these warrants that the TPD does not want us to see? i agree forensic results won't be included...so we have two childrens' bedrooms, an uncle's truck, and a neighbor. which of the above is so "sensitive" that they don't want us to know what they were looking for?

Warrants may not contain forensics but they have to be very specific as to which probable causes or evidence presented previously would give them specific next step warrants based on the findings/theories. So I am pretty sure we (public) would be able to infer ( possibly erroneously too!) a lot from the wording especially in the later warrants.

But...I bet some of what they are withholding is areas searched in response to k9 ( cadaverine) responses to evidence collected.


cguru:

Was the truck in RR's driveway JM's??