AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 5

[BetteDavisEyes]

He didn't appear to be getting escorted by an attorney.

Amid the circumstances of having a missing - possibly kidnapped - child, I'm surprised that Mr. Celis didn't request a delay in the court appearance regarding dog issues. Doesn't seem like something that couldn't be put off until later. :moo:

 

[gitana1]

I wish I was talented enough to draw the plans, but I am not.

Darn it. I wish someone was and knew how to post. Because I'm worse than you. East, west, means nothing to me and front or back means just a little more than that without something to look at.

 

[AZYaYa]

While I can understand tuning dogs out, it is hard for me to understand why a family who has a charge pending in court with possibly very large fines about the very dogs in question would allow dogs to "go nuts" at a very early hour of the morning, if any time of the day?

The incident happened just the Friday before, the charge was made on the 19th, just a day or two before, and they were set to go to court today.

If one is already in trouble with Tuscon Animal Care enough for them to file a misdemeanror charge with large fines AND possible jail time, why would one not at least be sensitive to dogs barking?

I live in Tucson and have a house off an alley, with a high wall, and my dog barks anytime someone walks by in the alley -- and people walk in the alleys here ALL the time. It seems to be how people walk their dogs - through alleys. People also go through trash bins here, and drive through alleys collecting things. Some people do it daily. Residents often leave out items near the trash bins that people might want (furniture, appliances). In my neighborhood, you can follow the direction a person goes through a series of alleys based on the barking dogs at each house along the way.

The way I imagine the barking dogs in the early morning - it would make sense if BC woke for work about 6:30, let the dogs out, another neighbors' dog(s) or workers/men were out, and so the dogs barked. If the men weren't in her yard, she wouldn't have paid attention necessarily, if the pattern of her neighborhood is like mine.

Also, to answer someone's question, she does not live too far from where she works. 10-15 minutes, I'd guess.

Also, in reply to someone else's question, as the weather warms up here, starting time for many outside jobs is early in the day. I have workers here now, and they came at 7 a.m.. Along that same note, we often leave a gate unlocked so they can access it as needed, and often it remains unlocked after the project is finished. Probably need to change that!

 

[liltexans]

Amid the circumstances of having a missing - possibly kidnapped - child, I'm surprised that Mr. Celis didn't request a delay in the court appearance regarding dog issues. Doesn't seem like something that couldn't be put off until later. :moo:

Maybe he did request a delay and it wasn't granted.

 

[Cazzie]

Welcome to WS, AZYaYa!

Makes so much sense...dogs have a keen sense of hearing (and smell), and probably a sixth sense IMO...so a high wall, especially in their normal day-to-day environment, is going to lead to the sharpening of their non-visual senses...

 

[AnaTeresa]

Maybe he did request a delay and it wasn't granted.

Or if he's pro se, didn't know he could request one.

 

[No Stone Unturned]

Amid the circumstances of having a missing - possibly kidnapped - child, I'm surprised that Mr. Celis didn't request a delay in the court appearance regarding dog issues. Doesn't seem like something that couldn't be put off until later. :moo:

I think that IF he postponed, he would be depicted as 'not wanting to show himself' in a court of law. I can just hear NG saying it was breaking news.

 

[Patty G]

Darn it. I wish someone was and knew how to post. Because I'm worse than you. East, west, means nothing to me and front or back means just a little more than that without something to look at.

Maybe one of our members will see the posts about a floor plan and has the ability to do this type of thing for all of us.

 

[Isabelle]

Really good point. Barking/growling, heck all vocalizations (and other behavior) by dogs, cats (purring seems to be unique, so far), horses, donkeys, etc...foreign languages that humans can and do learn...

Probably veering off-topic, but has any dog person heard the "turtle bark" (frantic high-pitched yipping)? I guess from their perspective, it mite be similar to a human spotting a UFO or alien...

I don't mean to minimize the importance of finding Isa safe... :heart:

Like everyone else here, I'm sure, I wish we knew more and had more info released by LE.

Yes, my female poochon has a very high pitched yip when she is excited or if another dog takes her chewie from her

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think that IF he postponed, he would be depicted as 'not wanting to show himself' in a court of law. I can just hear NG saying it was breaking news.

I appreciate your take on this, but I had different thoughts that I'd prefer not to post :couch:

 

[Thinkzerz]

Amid the circumstances of having a missing - possibly kidnapped - child, I'm surprised that Mr. Celis didn't request a delay in the court appearance regarding dog issues. Doesn't seem like something that couldn't be put off until later. :moo:

Maybe he just wanted to get it out of the way so all his attention can go on Isa?

 

[Cazzie]

Yes, my female poochon has a very high pitched yip when she is excited or if another dog takes her chewie from her

I wonder how many cases where a MP's (or diseased victim's) own pet directly led to finding out what happened to them? (Lassie-style, but perhaps, and hopefully, we have more "techniques" now?)

 

[No Stone Unturned]

I appreciate your take on this, but I had different thoughts that I'd prefer not to post :couch:

I admit that I was staunchly in the camp of non-parental abduction at the beginning. After watching the tape of their statement over and over, I'm on the fence.

It's unpopular up here though.

:fence:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Maybe he just wanted to get it out of the way so all his attention can go on Isa?

If my child were missing, I wouldn't give a da*n about a pet citation. :moo:

 

[Emeralgem]

i think that if he postponed, he would be depicted as 'not wanting to show himself' in a court of law. i can just hear ng saying it was breaking news.

bbm..bombshell tonight!!!!!!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

bbm..bombshell tonight!!!!!!

DH and I have a mid-week dinner date this evening, so I hope I can count on my fellow sleuthers to post about NG's show. TIA

 

[Emeralgem]

I admit that I was staunchly in the camp of non-parental abduction at the beginning. After watching the tape of their statement over and over, I'm on the fence.

It's unpopular up here though.
:fence:

I realize that but for me... I'm suspicious.. Can't HELP it..... I do hope and pray they are not involved though..JMHO

 

[katydid23]

I live in Tucson and have a house off an alley, with a high wall, and my dog barks anytime someone walks by in the alley -- and people walk in the alleys here ALL the time. It seems to be how people walk their dogs - through alleys. People also go through trash bins here, and drive through alleys collecting things. Some people do it daily. Residents often leave out items near the trash bins that people might want (furniture, appliances). In my neighborhood, you can follow the direction a person goes through a series of alleys based on the barking dogs at each house along the way.

The way I imagine the barking dogs in the early morning - it would make sense if BC woke for work about 6:30, let the dogs out, another neighbors' dog(s) or workers/men were out, and so the dogs barked. If the men weren't in her yard, she wouldn't have paid attention necessarily, if the pattern of her neighborhood is like mine.

Also, to answer someone's question, she does not live too far from where she works. 10-15 minutes, I'd guess.

Also, in reply to someone else's question, as the weather warms up here, starting time for many outside jobs is early in the day. I have workers here now, and they came at 7 a.m.. Along that same note, we often leave a gate unlocked so they can access it as needed, and often it remains unlocked after the project is finished. Probably need to change that!

Great first post, and :welcome: to WS.

Thank you , I wondered how far the hospital was from their home.

Also,I agree about the neighbor. I think she did feel that the men's voices were from the side yard, and not just from the alley. But that seems strange that they would take a child in broad daylight, and talk out loud while doing so.

 

[Patty G]

If the father didn't make the attempt to get his court appearance delayed because his daughter is missing, then he has no choice but to show up. The court could issue a bench warrant for not showing. So the few minutes it took him to go today, didn't harm the search for Isabel.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I admit that I was staunchly in the camp of non-parental abduction at the beginning. After watching the tape of their statement over and over, I'm on the fence.

It's unpopular up here though.

:fence:

I never blame parents in cases like this until I see some pretty hard evidence. That said, I am finding increasingly difficult to believe someone took that little girl out of her bed without alerting anyone, especially if it was through a window, she was 4 feet tall and 50 pounds, that isnt a small kid to be carrying through a window. Granted we do not know they entered/exited through a window so I will remain in the fence but from what we know right now I am just having a hard time believing this was a random abduction and that has nothing to do with what the parents said or looked like, it is based on the fact that abductions like that are extremely rare.


One thing I have learned over the years following crime is that things are always way weirder than I first assumed. On the other hand, if you take bits and pieces of a family and dont know them or the whole story, every family you look at would appear to be strange and dysfunctional including all of us. You really need the whole picture to draw any accurate conclusions about a person or family.