Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[JuneBug67]

My crystal ball tells me that sadly, 3-4yrs down the road after the conclusion of the third WM trial, the extreme narcissistic DM will get dopamine fix once again behind bars, as an actor plays him in the lead role of some sort of made for TV movie. You just know it's coming.

This set of cases needs a good, GOOD, extensively reasearched and deeply sourced book. I really think there is a deep vein to be mined here about how this all came to pass and about the culture it occurred in. Like an In Cold Blood for the twenty-tens, or like that other Canadian crime book that tried to be In Cold Blood for the nineties - Invisible Darkness - minus the pervasive sense of paranoia he tended to write with. I hope there is interest at some point by somebody with the will and the skill.

 

[JuneBug67]

Driving home I had a revelation about why things make so little sense to me. If you remove the incinerator from both the Tim and Laura equations - just pretend it’s not there ether before or after - you have two situations that seem for all the world like accidents or unplanned events. Robbery gone wrong and party while the girlfriend is away gone wrong. That is, I think, at the root of why this never quite computes for me. It’s the juxtaposition of the dark, ominous order implied by the Eliminator and the chaos of the crimes.

 

[artemis17]

God I hope Smich testifies again

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

 

[Ms.elle]

Because DM appears to have "nothing to lose" ...

What prevents him from stating to the jury,
"I think it's important for you guys to know that both Mark and I are already serving time for First degree murder. We were both found guilty of killing a guy named Timothy Bosma."

If he did that, it would almost certainly result in a mistrial. Hence, I think its a pretty reasonable concern to have.

 

[JuneBug67]

Am I remembering correctly that he also wrote in a letter that someone was pulled over either going to or leaving his mother's house? IMO there is someone else involved with the letters. I wonder if we'll ever get the story?

Yes...I recall it as a guy his mother knew getting pulled over and interrogated after simply knocking on her door and then driving away when nobody answered. Would be interesting to me to know how off that description is...memory and it’s nature fascinates me.

 

[Just4TB]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
"Remember the storm front we ended up on the north channel... remember how I was going to round the pass.... the current legal predicament i'm in seems ... I may be blown against the rocks of an unkind jury..."

This answers a longstanding question. CN is now confirmed to be one of the two girlfriends who went with DM on the Sailboat he rented, and in which, on it's return, the owner found blood, calling the cops.
Cops believed DM that one of the girls was menstruating, (and must have been twirling her tampon like a baton... smh.)

The "North Channel" is a popular sailing destination north of Manitoulin Island, from where DM rented the boat.

 

[Just4TB]

Shannon Martin
later when she's reported missing, i told you that mark told me that she OD'd... it wasn't clear this happened at maple gate... mark wouldn't call police because he'd be charged with trafficking.

...much later you asked Mark if he's still selling coke, Dell made him promise not to.
Mark told you "Cuz of that Laura *****, dont you know? even though you knew she OD'd with Mark...(it goes on at length here)

It ends with:

re read this a couple of times, and destroy immediately.
by Shannon Martin 12:51 PM

RSBM

(it goes on at length here)

Has the FULL letter been released for us to view the at length portion?

 

[Just4TB]

I'm a bit late viewing the days events... but geez this one really stuck out...

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
The letters seem to suggest #Millard was trying to create an alibi for the #LauraBabcock murder. "I won't ask you to give testimony that can't be disproved. We need to get our stories straight... you said you wanted to be a secret agent. Be mine."

Per his letter... DM "won't ask CN to give testimony that can't be disproved".
Logical deduction, this means he will ask her to give testimony that can be disproved.

And that is exactly what has occurred with his own "testimony" by way of questions to witnesses. It could be disproved, and with his own letters to CN, his version of events has been disproved.

 

[Just4TB]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
"That stuff I wrote before about seeing Mark and someone partying in the basement? That was just brainstorming. Forget it. Destroy this letter to protect me." Millard letter to Noudga. #LauraBabcock

Prophetic words. What a storm "that stuff DM wrote" has become. Hey DM, try that brain again. What's 32 + 22 + another 25 =?

 

[Typhoo1961]

God I hope Smich testifies again

I'm hoping for that as well. I've been wondering why Dungey has been so quiet.
Let's see what next week brings.

 

[winter2017]

Very well said your summary is perfect. I love the one about CN , so true and the three losers MM, SS, AM , unbelievable how they allowed DM to prey on them and they were so easily bought for drugs, place to stay and empty promises.

There's a belief that you're the sum of your 5 closest friends. DM's closest friends were MS, CN, AM, MM & SS.

"Low Intelligence Award" goes to DM. The only thing that helped DM was his access to the Millard money and all of the privileges that came with it. It masked how stupid DM really is. DM is simply a well funded psychopath with very good manipulation skills. No person with a brain in their head would put pen to paper and write dozens of incriminatory letters while in jail.

"Sexual Deviant award" goes to CN. She's a smart cookie with few morals. IMO, CN is a psychopath and sexual deviant. I believe that DM murdering LB turned her on. Knowing what those letters said, CN wasn't holding onto them because she couldn't find a shredder. They turned her on. I don't think CN would have ever have thought about blackmailing DM knowing that DM had mastered operating the Eliminator. That would have tied her for the "low intelligence" award.

"Submissive Psycho Side Kick Award" goes to MS. He was submissive to DM- asked him for money, asked him for drugs. DM instructed him to "sew" some stuff to make his own pocket change, needed DM for transportation. As much as DM's crimes turned CN on, they made MS feel powerful and important.

"Gold Digging Enabler Award" - the one and only Rabbit. Of course Rabbit needed WM out of the pic to really make a power move as a successful gold digger and Mother of the Year- she thought she was set for life until DM needed a truck. Actually, DM's fate has been sealed because of Rabbit. If she refused to deliver the letters to CN- they wouldn't be resting in the Jury's lap today.

Tied for the "Stupid Blind Bat Award" are MM, SS, AM- I don't need to say more.

So, all together, they add up to a big stack of stupid with 3 innocent murder victims in their wake.

Now, there was a letter in the TB case where DM was telling CN how he was going to address the Jury. IMO, he's probably spending the long weekend writing out his spectacular address. I don't believe for one minute that he wants the trial to end with the letters.

As far as CN is concerned, maybe she's coming home to lend some support to Rabbit as the trial comes to an end? The two of them seem to find comfort with each other.

 

[tommyR]

God I hope Smich testifies again

For the drama I agree 100%. That would be something!
But as the evidence stands now I can't see it. Dungey has to be happy with where he sits. The Crown did not prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that MS was involved in Laura's murder. If the charge to the jury is limited to M1, M2 or Manslaughter I can see MS walking.

 

[MsSherlock]

For the drama I agree 100%. That would be something!
But as the evidence stands now I can't see it. Dungey has to be happy with where he sits. The Crown did not prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that MS was involved in Laura's murder. If the charge to the jury is limited to M1, M2 or Manslaughter I can see MS walking.

I agree that as the Crown's case has wrapped up, if TD had the only defendant in this case he'd probably be sitting the next round out, but DM is could be a game changer. DM didn't take the stand in the TB trial and he probably faults his legal team for advising him not to (if in fact they did). He may actually be thinking that his testimony in the TB case would have changed the verdict.

The Crown ended their case brilliantly- DM is now in a corner and has to somehow explain these letters to the Jury. One way is If DM takes the stand in some form of MS-centric defence, then IMO TD may be forced to put MS on the stand and DM knows that if he passes on his opportunity to take the stand there's a chance that MS will do a repeat of the TB trial and this time the Jury may believe MS considering DM's letters. We owe such a huge "thank you" to DM's courier who made sure Rabbit got these letters to personally deliver to his sentimental secret agent. MOO

 

[deugirtni]

For the drama I agree 100%. That would be something!
But as the evidence stands now I can't see it. Dungey has to be happy with where he sits. The Crown did not prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that MS was involved in Laura's murder. If the charge to the jury is limited to M1, M2 or Manslaughter I can see MS walking.

"I can see MS walking"

Albeit not tooooo far, seeing as how he's already incarcerated for 25.

 

[deugirtni]

My crystal ball tells me that sadly, 3-4yrs down the road after the conclusion of the third WM trial, the extreme narcissistic DM will get dopamine fix once again behind bars, as an actor plays him in the lead role of some sort of made for TV movie. You just know it's coming.

It's obvious that his view of himself is vastly different from how others view him, and I think it will *kill* him that he won't have any control over what is portrayed and how it is portrayed (and by whom and how they make him come across to the viewer)... and of course, he won't receive any revenues from his story being told. He'll have to be in solitary for the rest of his life. moo.

 

[deugirtni]

I agree that as the Crown's case has wrapped up, if TD had the only defendant in this case he'd probably be sitting the next round out, but DM is could be a game changer. DM didn't take the stand in the TB trial and he probably faults his legal team for advising him not to (if in fact they did). He may actually be thinking that his testimony in the TB case would have changed the verdict.

The Crown ended their case brilliantly- DM is now in a corner and has to somehow explain these letters to the Jury. One way is If DM takes the stand in some form of MS-centric defence, then IMO TD may be forced to put MS on the stand and DM knows that if he passes on his opportunity to take the stand there's a chance that MS will do a repeat of the TB trial and this time the Jury may believe MS considering DM's letters. We owe such a huge "thank you" to DM's courier who made sure Rabbit got these letters to personally deliver to his sentimental secret agent. MOO

Yes, it is so ironic that these unmoralled characters, through their illegal letter-running (surely it must be illegal (and especially for a lawyer??) to facilitate an accused's correspondence to and from the people with whom he has no-contact orders?), ended up securing such damning evidence for the Crown, which likely had/will have a large role in helping the jury convict the criminal.

 

[Grey-St]

I can’t remember the exact date, but I’m pretty sure it was either after the verdict or during deliberations. It’s on sound cloud if you search ‘900CHML’

Re: contact visits, I can’t say for certain but I know in DM’s jailhouse interviews for the Spec and the Star (I think) it was mentioned that it was an interview done through glass. Believe it was the same with the interview with Smich.

I would assume that the accused in a 1st degree murder case are denied the right to be able to have physical contact with their visitors, especially in a case this high profile.

Thank you so much for answering this for me! I sincerely hope that one day we do find out the story here. I'm ready to fall off my chair!

 

[Inspector_North]

I'm a bit late viewing the days events... but geez this one really stuck out...



Per his letter... DM "won't ask CN to give testimony that can't be disproved".
Logical deduction, this means he will ask her to give testimony that can be disproved.

And that is exactly what has occurred with his own "testimony" by way of questions to witnesses. It could be disproved, and with his own letters to CN, his version of events has been disproved.

Do we know when the letters were written? Without dates stamped on the letters, it was almost a year from the time DM was arrested to the time LE searched CN's bedroom (May 2013 to April 2014). I see the initial story of LB and TB as early letters, and as DM received discovery of the evidence, like pings and texts, he needed to reboot his stories.

We got a glimpse of one of his early stories of TB through DM's only interview when he and his initial lawyer were at that time hinting he was not involved at all. This seems to be reflected in an early letter to CN about MS and his fellow buddies with street names being responsible. IIRC, he changed that story as time progressed to helping clean up MS's mess. The same type of story adjusting seemed to occur with LB as DM received LE discovery.

We may even find that the WM trial will have a similar progression of DM defense strategy.
Testimony that can't be disproved was a snapshot in time that changed with discovery, especially once her room was searched. MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

For the drama I agree 100%. That would be something!
But as the evidence stands now I can't see it. Dungey has to be happy with where he sits. The Crown did not prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that MS was involved in Laura's murder. If the charge to the jury is limited to M1, M2 or Manslaughter I can see MS walking.

You don't see MS's activity before, during, and after the murder and incineration as enough to prove he was an active partner? MS was found guilty of M1 even though there was the same sort of evidence that put MS in another vehicle at the time TB was murdered. Evidence in this trial puts him in the same house. All the other evidence of MS's involvement is very similar to the TB trial, with a RAP song and garage bragging session thrown in. MOO

 

[Grey-St]

For the drama I agree 100%. That would be something!
But as the evidence stands now I can't see it. Dungey has to be happy with where he sits. The Crown did not prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that MS was involved in Laura's murder. If the charge to the jury is limited to M1, M2 or Manslaughter I can see MS walking.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/murder-vs-manslaughter-1.1155132

I found this article useful, and for those that also need clarity around what constitutes M1, M2, and Manslaughter, I'd definitely check it out.

The only narrative we are getting thus far, as the crown rests its case, suggests M1 as per the charges. It will be interesting to see if another narrative is brought forward as a defence strategy, or if they will just argue that M1 has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and leave it at that. I agree that the case against MS is weaker for a "culpable homicide that is planned and deliberate", but if it comes down to M1 or walk, the jury may rule guilty of M1, simply because they feel that he was more likely involved than not involved.

Unless another narrative is brought forward, I think this is plausible. It will be interesting to see what happens as we continue on.