Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

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Normally you are quite correct but this case is anything but normal.

In highly public cases the judge can add safeguards to assure that the accused(s) get a fair trial.

Thank you, Deacon. So I guess it is at the Judge’s discretion then? Would the Judge ask the jurors many questions, and/or would the defence and the Crown be allowed to question potential jurors as well?

You are so knowledgeable about the law. If you have time, I would really appreciate it if you could explain the part of the jury process that doesn’t seem to be all that well known, whereby two jurors are selected and have a say as to whether other jurors should be selected. I know they have a title, but I forget what it is — “triers of ?” ... it is a curious procedure that I witnessed in court a few years back. Had never heard tell of that practice before then.

Thank you for your time.


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I've finally had some time to sit and really read through billandrews' timeline.

Well done, sir. Thank you for this.

In reading all of the exchanges in sequence, combined with the other evidence and testimony presented ... I'm confident in saying that, were I on the jury, I'd be satisfied in my decision to hand down M1 convictions to both parties.

The messages show, to me, that there was knowledge by MS of what was going to happen ... and the holes in texts can easily be explained away by them being in the same place at the same time and speaking/acting together in person. I'm confident that they were together based on the cell pings.

It just seems so ... stupid. I think DM is a person of at least average intelligence, and for him to make so many of the blatantly stupid "mistakes" he made baffles me. Not the least of which is the fact that he'd have known the last few/frequent calls/contact LB had were to him, and would be traced to him -- but to then document via photos the things that he did ... he's just really, really stupid.

Most laypeople know that if someone goes missing, the 1st person they look to is the spouse/partner, followed by a good look at their last/frequent contacts. How did he overlook this as a "criminal mastermind?" Is that why we have the introduction of the Lucas Bate phone post-LB/pre-TB?
And don't get me started on the letters -- crafting a story about the death/disappearance of LB before even being charged? Come on, now.

Perhaps he was diluted in his self-perceived intelligence because he surrounded himself with so many people who were, arguably, less intelligent than he. By comparison, he was a genius. Made to feel even more superior because the people he kept in his circle depended on him for the basic necessities of life, sex, or a paycheque.

I don't think he'll truly feel the magnitude of his fall from demented grace until the conclusion of all 3 trials and he's spent a few more years in lockup and realizes he's got absolutely nowhere to go and no other cards in his hand.
Assumptive, of course, that he is capable of feeling any of those feelings at all.
I don't anticipate any sort of self-reflective reflection; rather, a delusional life in prison where he wraps himself in education and writes nonsensical "brainstorming" memoirs.

As for the MS-rehabilitation discussion ... I'm not so sure.
With some clarity away from the drugs and lifestyle he was leading as a freeloading degenerate ... could he turn the corner?
Maybe.
But let's not forget he was a willing participant in 2 (IMO) murders, of his own volition.
He talked tirelessly of getting a job and making something of himself, but he never did. The alternative was too easy.

I'd be happy to see them both live out their days, without parole, in prison.

I do still find myself wondering how much CN knew.
A lot of communication has her seemingly in the know ... but there's not enough evidence presented for me to commit to my feelings toward her involvement.
And perhaps rightfully so, for she's not on trial here.

I am looking forward to the release of the information that the jury didn't see, and perhaps seeing more of the letters presented in WM's trial for a better look at the bigger picture.

Crown stated something about the implausibility of coincidence in their closing address that stuck with me and has been what I've been using as a measure of reason to review all the evidence with.

It's a sad reality, but both accused are responsible for this heinous, senseless tragedy and deserve no less than M1 convictions.
Thank you for this, ab-initio! It pretty much personifies how I've been feeling. I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just say that I agree with all of these reasoned points.

The crowns statement on the implausibility of coincidence really resonated with me, also. Both the accused are responsible, and I will be satisfied with M1 convictions for both. JMO.
 
I love where you say that he surrounded himself with far less intelligent people and by comparison he was a genius , that is a priceless comment , so true. It made him feel superior and also to have MS and MM both desperate for money , to be willing to do things for him so he would give them a small compensation. MM went across the border with him I believe to act as a decoy because he was always searched.
MS and MM were very dependent on him for food , a place to stay, to get around they did not drive, and for drugs.
That is where I question the parents of these two , MM was just 18, did her parents not wonder why she had no job and how was she living?
She dropped out of school to just drift around with MS. She had a step dad she said was too strict, but maybe he was trying to raise her and she just did not like the rules. She seems like a very rebellious young person and wanted to do what she wanted to.
I think it is amazing she did not get more involved in the criminal activities and then would have also ended up in prison. It is very surprised she did not, it could have very well been her also facing prison time because she seemed to be controlled by MS and who knows in future they may have involved her in more murders, Then she would be in prison for the rest of her life.

Yes Millard surrounded himself with "needy" types, however I don't see any evidence of him being any more intelligent than any of them. In fact, he is downright stupid. If a guy like SL could be on Millard's tail within days of LBs disappearance, how long would it be before police would come looking. Not that I'm blaming TPS for not investigating in those first few days, but certainly after the months turned to years somebody would have investigated? Did here family just give up?

As for MM, a lot of things don't add up with that girl and I for one feel that she had a lot more knowledge than she let on. This girl was there when LB was murdered, she was alone with Millard and Smich mere hours after TB was murdered and incinerated, and she was there when LB was incinerated. What can she tell us about these three events? They were happy in the truck, thats about it. Is she evil? Consider that when Smich confessed his participation in TBs murder, her response was to announce her plans to marry him. Did Smich make her wait in the truck for four hours when they burned LB? I guess they could have sent her in to the hangar where Millard had a bed in his office, but decided to let her sit in a place where she could actually see sparks flying makes more sense. And I'm still waiting for an answer as to why she begged Smich not to go on the TB mission if she knew nothing about it, but I don't expect an answer on that anytime soon.
 
Yes Millard surrounded himself with "needy" types, however I don't see any evidence of him being any more intelligent than any of them. In fact, he is downright stupid. If a guy like SL could be on Millard's tail within days of LBs disappearance, how long would it be before police would come looking. Not that I'm blaming TPS for not investigating in those first few days, but certainly after the months turned to years somebody would have investigated? Did here family just give up?

As for MM, a lot of things don't add up with that girl and I for one feel that she had a lot more knowledge than she let on. This girl was there when LB was murdered, she was alone with Millard and Smich mere hours after TB was murdered and incinerated, and she was there when LB was incinerated. What can she tell us about these three events? They were happy in the truck, thats about it. Is she evil? Consider that when Smich confessed his participation in TBs murder, her response was to announce her plans to marry him. Did Smich make her wait in the truck for four hours when they burned LB? I guess they could have sent her in to the hangar where Millard had a bed in his office, but decided to let her sit in a place where she could actually see sparks flying makes more sense. And I'm still waiting for an answer as to why she begged Smich not to go on the TB mission if she knew nothing about it, but I don't expect an answer on that anytime soon.
I agree there is something very creepy about her. I don't buy her act of innocense at all.
I think she was a bad person for MS to hook up with, like the judge said about someone aiding and abetting , wh encouraged MS IMO in some of the things he did. If you look at pictures of her, she looks like she is having a very good time, while he sang the rap, she is in the video.
I definitely think her whole performance in both cases nothing but an act. I think she did tell the truth at least as much as it did not in anyway incriminate her.
She is bad news and definitely someone for MS to stay away from. I wonder if she even is still in contact with him by visiting him or writing to him.
She blamed her stepfather for being too stern well he was dealing with someone that was out of control and maybe that was his way to try to deal with it.
She is definitely bad news.
 
The jury is coming in, we're now getting underway.
by Adam Carter 10:11 AM

Closing up now.
 
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