Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[Just4TB]

Going back and reading some old articles. What a pile of poop. DM stresses how he didnt buy gifts or really care that much for CN. Yet from Pillay in Tim's trial

https://www.google.ca/amp/ottawasun.../wcm/4079a003-a8b2-40db-8277-559593356418/amp

"Pillay showed the jury several text messages Millard sent Noudga before his arrest when he tells her how much he loves her and desires her.

She said they had been dating about 26 months before his arrest. She said he was generous to her, taking her on trips to Washington, Las Vegas, British Virgin Islands, Jamaica, and other destinations"

Good point, DM "doth protest too much" on that subject. Gifts that eventually include killing an ex-girlfriend whom he was accused of still having on the side, to show CN how dedicated he was to her.
The 'mission' to Claireville, I believe, was to show CN proof of the gift.

 

[chaines]

They are suppose to have no idea. But I can't really see that happening as the media is pretty prevalent about this story.

This is something that concerns me. I find it hard to believe that nobody on the jury knows about Tim Bosma. But if they DID manage to find 12 people who don't know about that case, are those people really representative of overall society? I would be concerned that they could be out of touch with the realities of the world and also a bit naive. JMO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So I was just reading through some of the first days of trial. I was look My for where LB was picking up in a “blue or Green truck” to see if maybe it was WM van as some people refer to minivans as trucks.

So LB stayed at Stefan Blasik’s place on July 1st (LB was dropped off at parents house by Jessica Trevor’s on June 30th (girl from across the park) I wonder if this date is wrong? LB stayed at Stefan’s place on July 1st, this should be the day Lacey was dropped at parents as Stefan’s parents had strict rule of no dogs. This would kabish th whole “dropped Lacey off at Parents to go on trip” theory. Mr B said LB dropped dog off on June 30th to go on trip but she actually stayed at Stefan’s.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

This is something that concerns me. I find it hard to believe that nobody on the jury knows about Tim Bosma. But if they DID manage to find 12 people who don't know about that case, are those people really representative of overall society? I would be concerned that they could be out of touch with the realities of the world and also a bit naive. JMO

The people I’ve asked that don’t know are pretty good people that are in touch with reality. Not everyone watches the news or uses social media.

 

[dar107]

There is much news happening locally nationaly internationally ... couple that with the busy lifes of todays society working kids family time social time etc I think an exceptionally high percent of the population would not know much if anything about this case.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So I was just reading through some of the first days of trial.I was looking for where LB was picked up in a “blue or Green truck” to see if maybe it was WM’d van as some people refer to minivans as trucks.

So LB stayed at Stefan Blasik’s place on July 1st (LB was dropped off at parents house by Jessica Trevor’s on June 30th (girl from across the park) I wonder if this date is wrong? LB stayed at Stefan’s place on July 1st, this should be the day Lacey was dropped at parents as Stefan’s parents had strict rule of no dogs. This would kabish th whole “dropped Lacey off at Parents to go on trip” theory. Mr B said LB dropped dog off on June 30th to go on trip but she actually stayed at Stefan’s.

Bbm to fix typos so ya’all can understand lol

Wow!! Sorry for typos, my new iPhone 7 sucks! Updated something and the keyboard went bonkers!!

 

[Georgeo]

Thinking about the phone pings near the conservation area...is there a dump or somewhere the soiled mattress could have been dropped off, that is near there?

If DM had green van, would mattress fit somehow? Roof racks? Wrapped in tarp maybe? Maybe he dumped mattress into a waterway near conservation area? Assume it would sink to bottom and and stains or DNA would be watered down and disappear in no time.

He could have driven to his farm and burned the mattress night of July 3rd. When TB evidence was being collected, there were 2 burn areas at the farm.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I just read again on CTV an article about the SCoC ruling on text messages.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/text-m...en-once-received-supreme-court-says-1.3712970

Does anyone have any input about how this can not affect this case, and the LB case on appeal?
Without the text messages and pictures, there would be close to no evidence.

The phones in that case were improperly seized by police. They couldn't get texts into the trial from the defendants phone for that reason. So they used his partners phone which was also improperly seized but said they could use this guys texts because once he sent them he had no right to privacy.

This just means the police need to get proper warrants or have them voluntarily turned over etc before they seize phones if they want to use any text messages

Heres the ruling if you want to read it : https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16896/index.do

After reading it - it could potentially help MS if he had a right to privacy since everything was found via DM's computer. There is the issue of DM paying for MS's phone which could impact things. And since all the searches were fine in this case - that changes things as well. Not a lawyer so far from an expert on how it would be interpretted but don't see how it helps DM.

 

[Shaz14]

The people I’ve asked that don’t know are pretty good people that are in touch with reality. Not everyone watches the news or uses social media.

I talked to my mom yesterday about the trial. She watches the news every night and vaguely knows about this trial, but she didn’t realize that they were the same people who were convicted of killing TB. She may have heard it at some point but she’s busy, only getting very high level information, and it isn’t a keen interest of hers, so I can see how she is not aware of the connection.

 

[Shaz14]

Thinking about the phone pings near the conservation area...is there a dump or somewhere the soiled mattress could have been dropped off, that is near there?

If DM had green van, would mattress fit somehow? Roof racks? Wrapped in tarp maybe? Maybe he dumped mattress into a waterway near conservation area? Assume it would sink to bottom and and stains or DNA would be watered down and disappear in no time.

He could have driven to his farm and burned the mattress night of July 3rd. When TB evidence was being collected, there were 2 burn areas at the farm.

i just googled waste disposal and it looks like there is a transfer station at the 407 and the 427. Draglam Waste..... could it be related??

http://www.draglamwaste.com/

There is also Rapid Waste disposal but the website doesn’t exist anymore. They seem to only do rental bins, but they are right near where the phones pinged in Clairport.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Regarding the Canadian jury selection process — I don’t believe that lawyers in Canada are usually allowed to question potential jurors at all. Our selection process is completely different from what we see in the U.S.

So I don’t think that the court would even know whether or not a juror sitting in Laura’s trial had any knowledge of Tim’s trial.

Even the jury questionnaire that people fill out contains very little information.

Here is an article from The Toronto Star about jury selection. Sorry that it is from 2008.

******

“Sometimes lawyers can ask prospective jurors, briefly, if they are biased against the race of the defendant or affected by pre-trial publicity. But normally the Crown and defence lawyers only know the candidate's name, area of residence and profession as they pick 12 jurors out of groups of 60 to possibly 400 prospects.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/10/14/the_inexact_art_of_jury_selection.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Thinking about the phone pings near the conservation area...is there a dump or somewhere the soiled mattress could have been dropped off, that is near there?

If DM had green van, would mattress fit somehow? Roof racks? Wrapped in tarp maybe? Maybe he dumped mattress into a waterway near conservation area? Assume it would sink to bottom and and stains or DNA would be watered down and disappear in no time.

He could have driven to his farm and burned the mattress night of July 3rd. When TB evidence was being collected, there were 2 burn areas at the farm.[/B]

That was almost a year later, so I doubt the burn spot had anything to do with LB mattress. I believe those burn spots were the TB truck seats and bloody clothes.

But he had a red pick up truck that the back box was full of blood when it was seized during TB case. There was never any explanation to where that blood came from. So maybe a mix of LB and TB! The blood was comprised (probably from bleach/cleaning products) so untestable but the box glew like a Christmas tree with the luminal.

BAJA race was in 2011 and he had the red Dodge Ram dually then.

 

[Tealgrove]

The phones in that case were improperly seized by police. They couldn't get texts into the trial from the defendants phone for that reason. So they used his partners phone which was also improperly seized but said they could use this guys texts because once he sent them he had no right to privacy.

This just means the police need to get proper warrants or have them voluntarily turned over etc before they seize phones if they want to use any text messages

Heres the ruling if you want to read it : https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16896/index.do

After reading it - it could potentially help MS if he had a right to privacy since everything was found via DM's computer. There is the issue of DM paying for MS's phone which could impact things. And since all the searches were fine in this case - that changes things as well. Not a lawyer so far from an expert on how it would be interpretted but don't see how it helps DM.

I recall that during the Michael Rafferty trial the Crown was unable to introduce evidence of internet searches on Rafferty's computer because a SEPARATE search warrant was required for digital items. That's why the Jury didn't hear about his searches on "how to rape a child".

If the information is gleaned through the proper channels with the proper search warrants I believe it's admissible.

MOO

 

[Stratocaster]

That was almost a year later, so I doubt the burn spot had anything to do with LB mattress. I believe those burn spots were the TB truck seats and bloody clothes.

But he had a red pick up truck that the back box was full of blood when it was seized during TB case. There was never any explanation to where that blood came from. So maybe a mix of LB and TB! The blood was comprised (probably from bleach/cleaning products) so untestable but the box glew like a Christmas tree with the luminal.

BAJA race was in 2011 and he had the red Dodge Ram dually then.

I remember the red pickup in the TB case, the one that DM owned, but I don't remember hearing about any blood being found in that one, just the TB stolen truck. Did I miss something.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I remember the red pickup in the TB case, the one that DM owned, but I don't remember hearing about any blood being found in that one, just the TB stolen truck. Did I miss something.

Ya know what, sorry, I think you’re correct!! It was TBs truck full of blood with luminal. I don’t think we heard much about Red truck except for VIN and SS.

I think I need more coffee lol

 

[THXGuru]

If you read the texts between MS and DM, they were really tight and I doubt he did not know DM s plans to want to get rid of Laura.

I see what you mean. But if we didn't know what happened in the TB murder, I don't think we would know for sure. I think the MS discussion needs a hard look. What if MS and LB were really doing a lot of drugs and she overdosed that way?

 

[Grey-St]

I see what you mean. But if we didn't know what happened in the TB murder, I don't think we would know for sure. I think the MS discussion needs a hard look. What if MS and LB were really doing a lot of drugs and she overdosed that way?

Then wouldn't that have been MS's defence?

 

[Jasper52]

Regarding the Canadian jury selection process — I don’t believe that lawyers in Canada are usually allowed to question potential jurors at all. Our selection process is completely different from what we see in the U.S.

So I don’t think that the court would even know whether or not a juror sitting in Laura’s trial had any knowledge of Tim’s trial.

Even the jury questionnaire that people fill out contains very little information.

Here is an article from The Toronto Star about jury selection. Sorry that it is from 2008.

******

“Sometimes lawyers can ask prospective jurors, briefly, if they are biased against the race of the defendant or affected by pre-trial publicity. But normally the Crown and defence lawyers only know the candidate's name, area of residence and profession as they pick 12 jurors out of groups of 60 to possibly 400 prospects.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/10/14/the_inexact_art_of_jury_selection.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

On the day of jury selection, the jurors will all be brought into the court. The judge will ask the lawyers involved to read out a list of persons involved in the case including both parties and witnesses. Potential jurors should listen closely so they can speak up if they personally know anyone involved in the case – if so, they have a conflict of interest and cannot be on the jury.

The judge decides how exactly the jury will be picked, but generally speaking, the juror numbers are chosen at random from a box and they are called forward. The judge will ask the juror if there is any reason they cannot serve on the jury and this is when a juror can explain if they know a party or witness or if there is a reason that serving on the jury would cause serious hardships or loss.

After the judge decides whether a juror will be excused, the lawyers can decide to ‘challenge’ a juror, removing them from the jury. In a civil trial, each lawyer receives four ‘challenges’ and they can use them for any number of reasons – usually based on what issues they believe will come up at trial. Some lawyers prefer to remove potential jurors with expertise in a key issue at trial; for example, a truck driver if a truck was involved in the accident.

Source: The Jury Selection Process and Juror Responsibilities

 

[THXGuru]

Then wouldn't that have been MS's defence?

If MS testifies. All six of his previous criminal convictions become knowledge with the jurors. So in essence, each will hear all his criminal convictions which get stated as the date, location, charge and sentence. In other words, they would know he convicted of murder, Hamilton, life in prison and the date. After this info gets released, he then tell his story, problem is, jurors will not believe someone who has a murder conviction.

Right now, TD is hoping that the jurors can view MS as someone who has no prior record, never met LB, never actually said her name. So in a way, it could quite difficult to convict MS.

I do believe TD has given MS a shot at acquittal. I think it will take a very long discussion among the jurors. Not really sure what they will do.

 

[Just4TB]

He could have driven to his farm and burned the mattress night of July 3rd. When TB evidence was being collected, there were 2 burn areas at the farm.

RSBM

The TB trial burn marks were located in a harvested corn field, which would have been actively growing during the LB murder time frame, then harvested in the fall of 2012. Based on that, I believe the burn marks were "too fresh" to have been from the LB timeframe.