GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

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ajaylee said:
I wonder what the 'agreed order entered' for KW on 4/9 was all about. I didn't think she was legally in the picture any more.

I wonder if there's any possibility the FBI will ask to see the text messages she alleged she had that proved HM was trying to sell Stella. I think that might be seen as some kind of trafficking.
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I was under the impression that it was agreed in Judge Cohen's probate court, that the matter of guardianship for Stella could not be decided there and had to be moved to Judge Stephen's court? Perhaps that's the issue that was entered on 4/19? Whatever it was it definitely involved Stella as her name and her GAL were also listed in the agreed order.


I don't think the FBI is really looking for any information about Stella either. She's seems to have been forgotten and abandoned by all authorities in the US. They allowed Indonesia to deal with her, even though she is not a citizen of the country and the decision to allow Stella to stay on in the country once she had to be removed from the prison was unprecedented on Indonesia's part. The whole business of an American giving birth while in prison over there was unprecedented and it doesn't appear that anyone in the US considered discussing with anyone in Indonesia about what was in Stella's best interests and setting a precedent of their own.

MOO
 
The FBI isn't helping Stella directly, but if they want to get HM when she comes back, they need everything they can get - particularly because of the uncertainty about what she was charged with/convicted of in Bali.

I think if there is actually clear evidence that HM conspired to sell Stella, the FBI can try to bring a case. Heck, I'd like to see the FBI go after both HM and TS for credit card fraud, too. Whatever it takes to keep them both behind bars.
 
ajaylee said:
The FBI isn't helping Stella directly, but if they want to get HM when she comes back, they need everything they can get - particularly because of the uncertainty about what she was charged with/convicted of in Bali.

I think if there is actually clear evidence that HM conspired to sell Stella, the FBI can try to bring a case. Heck, I'd like to see the FBI go after both HM and TS for credit card fraud, too. Whatever it takes to keep them both behind bars.
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Whatever KW may have, or think she has, with regards to any deal that HM may have been trying to make to get a large sum of money, likely to pay the appeal bribes, by "selling" Stella to a prospective adoptive couple, would be out of the jurisdiction of the FBI I would think?

:waitasec:

MOO
 
ajaylee said:
The FBI isn't helping Stella directly, but if they want to get HM when she comes back, they need everything they can get - particularly because of the uncertainty about what she was charged with/convicted of in Bali.

I think if there is actually clear evidence that HM conspired to sell Stella, the FBI can try to bring a case. Heck, I'd like to see the FBI go after both HM and TS for credit card fraud, too. Whatever it takes to keep them both behind bars.
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I wonder how the exchange with Stella's new carer can be viewed.
It would have taken some funds and someone to pay for the new legal precedents which were put in place for Stella's situation to be written into law. Who paid for that?
Who paid for the lawyers? Did Stella pay for that out of her trust fund?

I don't see why HM & TS cant be charged when she is returned back from Indonesia to the United States.
She cant stay there - Indonesian Law doesn't allow it.
 
Kamille said:
Whatever KW may have, or think she has, with regards to any deal that HM may have been trying to make to get a large sum of money, likely to pay the appeal bribes, by "selling" Stella to a prospective adoptive couple, would be out of the jurisdiction of the FBI I would think?

:waitasec:

MOO
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I think it would still fall under the FBI's jurisdiction.

The murder is complicated because Indonesia's laws and charges don't map directly to the US's laws and charges - that's why the 'slayer statute' issue is so tricky to resolve. There's also the issue of double jeopardy - can HM be tried again in the US for a crime that she has already been tried for overseas. That's why I provided the cite about the America man who murdered his American wife in Australia but actually got tried both places.

I think baby selling would be handled like human trafficking. HM is an American citizen who apparently tried to sell her child, who is also an American citizen. I think that violates US laws regardless of where the attempted crime takes place.
 
I came across this video today about life inside Hotel K. It was posted by a journalist and friend of fellow Reuters journalist, David Fox, who was incarcerated for possessing a small amount of cannabis, which he took for his PTSD after reporting from many war zones. Anyway, most of it is about the Bali Nine but at 22.32 minutes in, you will see a glimpse of Tommy Schaefer!

[video=youtube;DU37axiV2Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU37axiV2Iw&feature=share[/video]
 
Thanks, IslandLover.

Some interesting bits. The three profiled characters specifically mentioned how well the male prisoners get along - no violence. I wonder if they said that because they're afraid of retaliation if they anything else.

One view of TS with his eyes closed. I wish they'd talked to him, but it's possible that they wanted to and he refused. It's also possible that because the show is filmed for an Australian audience, that's why they didn't talk to him. It's also true that someone who murdered a helpless old woman, brutalized her corpse, and then immediately texted a friend to say he felt fine - that's not exactly a sympathetic figure. The other three male prisoners were much more sympathetic - two were very young first-time smugglers, and the third uses drugs for his PTSD.

Interesting that they weren't allowed in the women's side at all, not even just to film footage without talking to anyone.

I had read that a few months ago there was a prison crackdown and visitors no longer have free access to mingle with prisoners. There are old photos showing Nikki Butler and Scott Rush, one of the Bali 9, cuddling in a big visiting area. One report said that Sara Connor will not be able to hold her kids when they visit because of the new rules.

It looks like those rules are in place, but there's also apparently a monthly 'family' day where it looks like everyone gets to mingle in a big open area.
 
Yes thanks IslandLover. We've been waiting for that documentary to air and then make it to the internet.

Still looks like a big party in there most of the time to me. Like an overcrowded commune or small impoverished village. Most poor people have it a lot worse than those "prisoners".

It's $25 a week for a foreign prisoner to stay in the foreign prisoner section where there is less overcrowding and they appear to have their own personal space. Which is a privilege and likely allows for a much lower man to cell ratio. I guess it's not necessary on the women's side. Less overcrowding due to the lower numbers and they live like a big slumber party anyway as seen in HM and her fellow prisoner friends many IG pics. I assume someone was paying the foreigner fee for TS and that "privilege" was supposedly taken from him for fighting. I wonder if he has been moved back there.

Interesting to me is that it was mentioned that one of the deterrents to help keep things in line at Kerobokan is the threat of being moved out of Kerobokan. That says something about the lax conditions of that particular prison right there to me.

So the new policy of not allowing the men and women to mingle openly just started in April? I assume they can still mingle in the jewellery making, english, yoga, silk screening and art classes and at church? :rolleyes:

So can we get ABC news in Chicago to go over and do a documentary of HM? ;)

MOO
 
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I think TS is really really stoned in that brief clip.

Some of the Bali 9 have been moved to other prisons. There are even fewer western or English-speaking prisoners, it's very difficult for visitors, and the 'amenities' - classes, medical, tennis courts - are virtually non-existent. The drugs don't flow as freely at the smaller prisons. Scott Rush got moved so he could get out of temptation's reach.

In fairness, I think ABC should make a documentary focusing on the two most famous American prisoners to ever spend time in Hotel K.
 
I was surprised when I watched that video at how lax Kerobokan seems to be. It may of course be due to the filming and not wanting to create a bad impression. When I compare it with Bangkwang prison in Bangkok (famously dubbed the Bangkok Hilton), it is like chalk and cheese. It does appear that Kerobokan places emphasis on rehabilitation (except for those on death row), whereas with Bangkwang, the intention is pure punishment.
 
ajaylee said:
I think TS is really really stoned in that brief clip.

Some of the Bali 9 have been moved to other prisons. There are even fewer western or English-speaking prisoners, it's very difficult for visitors, and the 'amenities' - classes, medical, tennis courts - are virtually non-existent. The drugs don't flow as freely at the smaller prisons. Scott Rush got moved so he could get out of temptation's reach.

In fairness, I think ABC should make a documentary focusing on the two most famous American prisoners to ever spend time in Hotel K.
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tennis courts - are virtually non-existent?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There were tennis courts - Scott Rush and Myu Sukumaran, two of the Bali Nine, used to play.
 
ajaylee said:
There were tennis courts - Scott Rush and Myu Sukumaran, two of the Bali Nine, used to play.
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I thought Matthew Norman said he still plays or teaches tennis? I thought you were referring to none of those "amenities" exist in other prisons in Indonesia? Perhaps one of the reasons why the threat of being moved from Kerobokan keeps prisoners in line?
 
Kamille said:
I thought Matthew Norman said he still plays or teaches tennis? I thought you were referring to none of those "amenities" exist in other prisons in Indonesia? Perhaps one of the reasons why the threat of being moved from Kerobokan keeps prisoners in line?
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Sorry for the confusion. Most prisoners don't want to be moved to a smaller prison without Hotel K-type luxuries like tennis courts and so on. Apparently access to drugs is also much harder at the small prisons. Scott Rush asked for a transfer to a small prison because he couldn't stay away from the drugs in Hotel K. One of the other Bali Nine got caught with drugs and was shipped off to a remote prison where I think he is the only westerner.
 
ajaylee said:
Sorry for the confusion. Most prisoners don't want to be moved to a smaller prison without Hotel K-type luxuries like tennis courts and so on. Apparently access to drugs is also much harder at the small prisons. Scott Rush asked for a transfer to a small prison because he couldn't stay away from the drugs in Hotel K. One of the other Bali Nine got caught with drugs and was shipped off to a remote prison where I think he is the only westerner.
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Maybe they should use the "open space" mentioned in the documentary, like the tennis courts as one example, to build more housing for the Indonesian men who can't afford to buy their own living space.

:notgood:

MOO
 
It all seemed a bit 'light', ABC.
I wonder if there were other restrictions placed on 'story' and the production of the video, besides not being able to access the women's side of the prison.

Regardless of the new visitor restrictions during visits, such as bars between the visitors and the inmates, I still see that they manage to get the children through the bars for contact.
 
I agree, FigTree, it seemed a bit 'light'.

The prisoners clearly bent over backwards not to say anything that could upset the prison officials. They went on a bit much about the harmony in the prison and everyone getting along. It was barely a year ago that they had massive riots in the Indonesian men's side and had to ship a bunch of prisoners to other prisons.

I don't know if the prison had the final say on what the producers could air. I don't recall drugs being mentioned, but TS was clearly stoned out of his mind.

Kamille, you mention all the open space on the insanely crowded men's side. It's interesting that the Bali Nine guys are actually in what looks like an old guard tower, not regular cells.

Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if TS spent all his money on drugs, couldn't pay his cell rent, and got unruly when they 'evicted' him for non-payment, leaving him to stay with the poor Indonesians that can't afford a private cell. He could move back in when his next installment of money came in.
 
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