Bosma Murder Trial 03.07.16 - Day 20

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Susanne said:
Back to Igor and his truck test drive by DM and MS. I think that MS was going to shoot Igor just before he mentioned that he had military experience. Igor testified that DM whipped his head around so fast to look at MS in the backseat that DM must have hurt his neck. Igor was also quite nervous that DM was driving the truck on the highway and was not looking at the road for quite some time, too busy staring at MS. I think this was DM telling MS to abort the shooting. DM may have been worried that Igor was armed or could well cause a serious accident.
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Does anyone recall what day of the trial that Igor testified? If not, I'll go back and look for it.
 
andreww said:
I think it's pointless to speculate if the shot came from the front or back of the truck. The fact that TB was actually shot inside the truck indicates that something went wrong and that there was likely a struggle. In a situation like this it is easy to imagine Smich climbing in to the front to assist.

It would make more sense that the driver would have the gun though as the evidence wouldn't indicate that TB tried to get in to the back seat to wrestle for the gun.
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I think you just made a speculation as to what may have happened inside the truck - MS climbing into the front to potentially help DM to finish off TB :) Perhaps that TB was killed in the truck was something they had planned or at least an option they kept open - something may not have necessarily gone wrong for the murder to happen (may be unlikely in your eyes, but still a possibility).

At the very least, hypothesizing whether the shot came from the front or back may allow us to brainstorm what the D's angle will be when it's their turn to present their case. At most, it may help us see the bigger picture that the Crown's intending to prove by determining the blanks in the puzzle that the prosecutors will hopefully fill in. Like, for example, whether there had only been one gun involved or two. If there really had been a struggle or a surprised kill in the truck. If DM or MS had indicated a desire to kill / abduct / retain the victim before the allegedly planned theft, inside or outside the truck, which may help secure a 1st degree murder conviction. Or if they just planned to steal the truck only to forcibly confine TB when they couldn't get him out of the truck.

The Crown has more in store for us - if they got this far pursuing a conviction, they probably have answers we don't yet.

*MS allegedly told his girlfriend, MM, about a planned car theft - it's in ABro's transcript. That's evidence that'll hopefully come up soon.
 
FromGermany said:
I also was thinking that DM/MS wouldn't have messed up their wonderful cheap stolen truck if there hadn't happened something unexpected. Certainly TB from the outset had a bad feeling because of the behavior of the two accused (he didn't want to accompany the two on their test drive). TB said something or did something, I believe, and DM/MS got "panic". So, because of the gun (2 guns?) was/were available one of them or both (?) shot.
Not knowing much about vehicles, I think the middle front seat was easily to move/fold? IF MS is a left hander he had perhaps relatively easy access to TB on the front passenger seat. When MS folded up the middle seat TB might have moved to the left in his direction because of fear and intuition, was shot and moved just barely to his right, away from danger.
Maybe DM shot, maybe DM shot in addition to MS' shooting.
I would like to know how it all happened to empathize more with the innocent young nice TB.
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Exactly. He could have been shot by Smich, he could have been shot by Millard, we'll likely never know. But I think most of us can reasonably assume that TB was not supposed to get shot in the truck. So what was the plan? We know that Millard drove directly to the field. If the plan was not to shoot TB, how would they restrain him if Smich was driving one truck and Millard the other? The only reasonable scenario would have had TB driving his truck with DM holding the gun and MS following. Drive him to a remote place, take his phone and leave him. I still feel TB, not wanting to lose the truck fought back at the field and Millard shot him there.
 
andreww said:
Exactly. He could have been shot by Smich, he could have been shot by Millard, we'll likely never know. But I think most of us can reasonably assume that TB was not supposed to get shot in the truck. So what was the plan? We know that Millard drove directly to the field. If the plan was not to shoot TB, how would they restrain him if Smich was driving one truck and Millard the other? The only reasonable scenario would have had TB driving his truck with DM holding the gun and MS following. Drive him to a remote place, take his phone and leave him. I still feel TB, not wanting to lose the truck fought back at the field and Millard shot him there.
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What was the plan? They had a freaking incinerator. DM kept the truck and MS came and visited it in the hangar after DM had had it for a couple of days. Neither of them treated the truck like a hot potato. The plan was to kill for a truck and incinerate the victim and carry on as if it were business as usual.
 
Juballee said:
RSBM



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by SnooperDuper
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.






Gunshot spatter - includes both forward spatter from the exit wound and back spatter from the entrance wound. Gunshot spatter will vary depending on the caliber of the gun, where the victim is struck, whether the bullet exits the body, distance between the victim and the gun and location of the victim relative to walls, floors and objects. Typically, forward spatter is a fine mist and back spatter is larger and fewer drops.


http://www.forensicsciencesimplified...rinciples.html

RSBM



RSBM

Sorry to mash up these different posts, I hope the quotes came out properly. (Forgive the grisly visuals)

It sounds like the blood spatter that was not altered by clean up supports the idea of a fine mist from forward spatter (coming from the exit wound) being found to the left of the glove box. In my opinion, DM would have had to have climbed into the backseat to have shot TB and left exit wound spatter to the left of the glovebox.

I think Dungey may have really screwed MS by asking if there was back spatter in the driver's area. I think back spatter would have been found in the unaltered areas like to the left of the glovebox, if the shot came from the front seat.

My opinion only.
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Except that the EXPERT concluded that he could not say where the shot came from......so I don't think that we as less qualified persons can really have any definite opinion on this from the evidence presented so far......MOO
 
andreww said:
Exactly. He could have been shot by Smich, he could have been shot by Millard, we'll likely never know. But I think most of us can reasonably assume that TB was not supposed to get shot in the truck. So what was the plan? We know that Millard drove directly to the field. If the plan was not to shoot TB, how would they restrain him if Smich was driving one truck and Millard the other? The only reasonable scenario would have had TB driving his truck with DM holding the gun and MS following. Drive him to a remote place, take his phone and leave him. I still feel TB, not wanting to lose the truck fought back at the field and Millard shot him there.
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How can that theory line up with the blood spatter evidence that TB was lost likely shot while in the passenger seat?

While I agree that it's unreasonable on every imaginable level to shoot a person inside a vehicle, I haven't eliminated this as their plan. I really don't believe that either one of them thought that there might be problems linked to this idea.
 
I was thinking about going to the courtroom tomorrow morning. What time is a good time to arrive? Are there still a lot of people in line to get in?
 
andreww said:
BBM. Could you elaborate on that? Who did they tell?
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Swedie posted earlier in the thread from the Crown's opening statement here:

Also on this day, May 7, 2013, Mr. Millard told his roommate that they had stolen a truck on May 6, the day before. This roommate already knew that Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich planned to steal a truck of this kind. The Accused had told him this plan on the weekend.

Mr. Smich told his girlfriend that Mr. Millard stole the truck and that he (Mr. Smich) was there. Mr. Smich also said that the man they stole the truck from , who the Crown says was Tim Bosma, was quote “gone gone gone”.

Mr. Smich’s girlfriend told police of the two accused looking for a truck to steal and talking about this a few days before the murder. She also told police she remembered Mr. Millard picked up Mr. Smich on May 6, 2013 which would have been before they made their way to Ancaster to see Tim Bosma’s truck.
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http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html
 
JPC said:
I was thinking about going to the courtroom tomorrow morning. What time is a good time to arrive? Are there still a lot of people in line to get in?
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Magic time seems to be 8:30 and yes, there are still piles of people showing up
 
andreww said:
Exactly. He could have been shot by Smich, he could have been shot by Millard, we'll likely never know. But I think most of us can reasonably assume that TB was not supposed to get shot in the truck. So what was the plan? We know that Millard drove directly to the field. If the plan was not to shoot TB, how would they restrain him if Smich was driving one truck and Millard the other? The only reasonable scenario would have had TB driving his truck with DM holding the gun and MS following. Drive him to a remote place, take his phone and leave him. I still feel TB, not wanting to lose the truck fought back at the field and Millard shot him there.
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I don't agree that there was no plan to murder. IMO, I think they planned everything, from stealing the truck to murder. Don't forget that DM is going to be in court for two other possible murders (WM and LB), and MS is also charged in the LB murder. I also believe that they (I believe both are responsible - as they both are charged in LB's case), shot TB close to home. The only reason to go to the field was to get the DM's truck. There are many unanswered questions we all have, and hopefully the Crown will answer many of them by the end of the trial. But I honestly believe that this was premeditated. :moo:

**Forgot to add: I also do not think they cared about the interior of the truck being ruined. They are known for chopping up vehicles and putting in random parts to suit their needs. I think that they probably wanted to "redecorate" the interior, IYKWIM.
 
Jurors in the Hamilton trial of two men accused of murdering Tim Bosma will hear more evidence today from a gunshot residue expert.

Robert Gerard, a forensic scientist in the chemistry section of the Centre for Forensic Sciences, told the jury Monday that he examined a toolbox that came from Bosma's truck while looking for gunshot residue. The session ended for the day shortly after. A juror suffering a health problem had to leave the court in a wheelchair.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-gunshot-residue-expert-1.3480618
 
kramkat said:
I don't agree that there was no plan to murder. IMO, I think they planned everything, from stealing the truck to murder. Don't forget that DM is going to be in court for two other possible murders (WM and LB), and MS is also charged in the LB murder. I also believe that they (I believe both are responsible - as they both are charged in LB's case), shot TB close to home. The only reason to go to the field was to get the DM's truck. There are many unanswered questions we all have, and hopefully the Crown will answer many of them by the end of the trial. But I honestly believe that this was premeditated. :moo:

**Forgot to add: I also do not think they cared about the interior of the truck being ruined. They are known for chopping up vehicles and putting in random parts to suit their needs. I think that they probably wanted to "redecorate" the interior, IYKWIM.
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Just wondering if blood spatter plus GSR together would give a clearer picture of the origin of shots either from the front or back.
 
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 41s41 seconds ago
Justice Goodman now in the courtroom. Jury being recalled. #HamOnt #TimBosma #Bosma
 
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