Bosma Murder Trial 05.10.16 - Midweek Discussion

[ILoveDateline]

Exactly .... if they just wanted to seize and steal TB's truck from him they could have done that and had it hidden at the farm or hangar before 11:00 pm . And even if they planned to shoot him on the side of the road it would only add 3 seconds to the timeline. The (planned) incineration was what made it an all-nighter

DM also wanted to potentially use the truck for an upcoming race/trip. All nighter could refer to striping the truck down for painting and other things you might do with a stolen truck. I'm not sure what that is. JMO. I'm not saying all nighters didn't mean what you said but it could mean other things. We haven't heard definitively. IMO.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Exactly .... if they just wanted to seize and steal TB's truck from him they could have done that and had it hidden at the farm or hangar before 11:00 pm . And even if they planned to shoot him on the side of the road it would only add 3 seconds to the timeline. The (planned) incineration was what made it an all-nighter

I've been thinking it was a premeditated murder ever since I heard that statement from DM's texts. With any luck MS will get up on the stand and testify that the murder was premeditated by DM.

 

[canadiangirl]

DM also wanted to potentially use the truck for an upcoming race/trip. All nighter could refer to striping the truck down for painting and other things you might do with a stolen truck. I'm not sure what that is. JMO. I'm not saying all nighters didn't mean what you said but it could mean other things. We haven't heard definitively. IMO.

Well really it's out of sight in the hanger. Could have just completed it the next day like they often did in the chop shop

 

[Typhoo1961]

We haven't heard definitively.

With any luck we will.lease:

 

[ILoveDateline]

Well really it's out of sight in the hanger. Could have just completed it the next day like they often did in the chop shop

True. And maybe if they weren't busy cleaning up the murder of TB, they would have had time to strip the vehicle and avoiding it ever positively IDed as TBs truck.

 

[Jug Up]

More so than DM's other uncooperative buddies, like SS?

Are any of them facing charges in direct relation to this case?

Any chance we want to "stigmatize" her more because she's a woman who flaunted her sexuality and now she needs to be "shamed"?

No. Her gender, or the "flaunting" of her sexuality, is moot. She is a very unlikeable individual facing charges in direct relation to the case being discussed, which indeed makes her as relevant as DM and MS in the discussion.

Even in this day in age, the gender card still seems to get played. And yet we wonder why stigmas exist.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Are any of them facing charges in direct relation to this case?

THe only one I know about is the guy who sold DM the gun.

 

[andreww]

DM also wanted to potentially use the truck for an upcoming race/trip. All nighter could refer to striping the truck down for painting and other things you might do with a stolen truck. I'm not sure what that is. JMO. I'm not saying all nighters didn't mean what you said but it could mean other things. We haven't heard definitively. IMO.

There would be no need to strip the truck if TB didn't bleed all over it. The fact that he said in advance that it'd be an all nighter would have been made before the interior was covered in blood, so if there was no clean up needed, and the truck didn't need to be stripped, why the all nighter? We already know Millard had no problem with letting SS see the truck, but only once the blood was gone. So if there had been no blood to clean up, it makes sense that SS would have done any needed paint prep on the 7th.

I believe the plan was;

- hijack truck at gunpoint
- duct tape TB
- drive both trucks to farm
- execute TB outside vehicle
- Incinerate TB
- Drive RAM to the hangar
- Strip the RAM for paint on the 7th

 

[ILoveDateline]

There would be no need to strip the truck if TB didn't bleed all over it. The fact that he said in advance that it'd be an all nighter would have been made before the interior was covered in blood, so if there was no clean up needed, and the truck didn't need to be stripped, why the all nighter? We already know Millard had no problem with letting SS see the truck, but only once the blood was gone. So if there had been no blood to clean up, it makes sense that SS would have done any needed paint prep on the 7th.

I believe the plan was;

- hijack truck at gunpoint
- duct tape TB
- drive both trucks to farm
- execute TB outside vehicle
- Incinerate TB
- Drive RAM to the hangar
- Strip the RAM for paint on the 7th

I meant stripping it for paint or whatever else you do for stolen vehicles, not necessarily striping the interior.

 

[Arnie M]

DM also wanted to potentially use the truck for an upcoming race/trip. All nighter could refer to striping the truck down for painting and other things you might do with a stolen truck. I'm not sure what that is. JMO. I'm not saying all nighters didn't mean what you said but it could mean other things. We haven't heard definitively. IMO.

I considered that too but other than removing the contaminated seats and removing license plates the truck was parked in the open in a relaxed manner for anyone to see .... plus one of the employees did a lot of the additional stripping and sanding and removing lights etc.

If not for the (planned) incineration and the (unplanned) damaged seats all they would have to do is remove the license and registration and be home by 11:00 pm if they wanted.

 

[canadiangirl]

CNs testimony was full of inconsistencies. IMO. I hardly doubt she was worried about DMs Rep being tarnished by pot. There was a lot of cover up to be done. When she answered that it was to cover up the real meaning behind one of her or his notes. JMO.

MM and MS wanted the drugs and it was a bonus for DM and CN, and AM for that matter, to have them out of the house. JMO.

To expand on this I still find it odd MS getting the drugs was main focus after what actually happened. Although I did note DM's comment in the letters saying Mark should have "get me all the drugs" tattooed on his forehead. This to me makes me think more people were actually convinced the toolbox actually had drugs in it since it was brought out at parties, and not the gun like others wish to believe. Part of me wonders if when MS opened the toolbox to take a "hit" of something stronger, that's when the "OH *****" moment happened and further panic set in

 

[Jug Up]

Ok so suggestive is an inappropriate word.

I don't think so at all. She gave "suggestive" testimony in a murder trial that has gained international attention, and, if you read between the lines, referenced that in her social media posts.

Stick to your guns. Just because others don't share your view, doesn't mean you are wrong.

 

[andreww]

I meant stripping it for paint or whatever else you do for stolen vehicles, not necessarily striping the interior.

There would be no need to strip for paint without the murder. The reason for the paint was based on the huge amount of media attention that started almost immediately. The fact that Millard had booked it as an all nighter must have been for something else as it would make sense that SS do the work on the truck anyway. The fact that the incinerator was at the farm indicates that they never meant to do work on the truck that night. The plan changed when TB bled out. They had no problems letting the crew see the truck, but not the blood, so the decision was made to haul the incinerator to the hangar and strip the blood soaked interior while it did its work.

 

[andreww]

I considered that too but other than removing the contaminated seats and removing license plates the truck was parked in the open in a relaxed manner for anyone to see .... plus one of the employees did a lot of the additional stripping and sanding and removing lights etc.

If not for the (planned) incineration and the (unplanned) damaged seats all they would have to do is remove the license and registration and be home by 11:00 pm if they wanted.

Wouldn't surprise me if the plates were changed before they left the field or possibly at the bobcat dealership.

 

[Inspector_North]

I considered that too but other than removing the contaminated seats and removing license plates the truck was parked in the open in a relaxed manner for anyone to see .... plus one of the employees did a lot of the additional stripping and sanding and removing lights etc.

If not for the (planned) incineration and the (unplanned) damaged seats all they would have to do is remove the license and registration and be home by 11:00 pm if they wanted.

IIRC, DM was looking for a red truck, but as the time to go to the race approached he mentioned that it did not need to be red. Whatever the original plan was, I don't believe it included shooting TB in the truck. DM had made a mistake during a previous mission that almost got them caught, the GPS in the Bobcat. I don't think he wanted to have evidence left in the vehicle, and most likely didn't want the extra work.

Remember that the call to employees to "not come to the hanger" on the 7th was a last minute text at around 5:30 am on the 7th. While the vehicle was still there and in the open on the 8th, the fact that no one comes to the hanger on the 7th indicates their mission had not been completed. DM even texted that he was entering into the next phase after his nap.

As for the all nighter, this indicates there was more to the mission than just a theft. Ignoring that he was shot in the truck, the use of the incinerator would take most of the night.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Wouldn't surprise me if the plates were changed before they left the field or possibly at the bobcat dealership.

Why do you say that? What advantage would that provide?

 

[MsSherlock]

I considered that too but other than removing the contaminated seats and removing license plates the truck was parked in the open in a relaxed manner for anyone to see .... plus one of the employees did a lot of the additional stripping and sanding and removing lights etc.

If not for the (planned) incineration and the (unplanned) damaged seats all they would have to do is remove the license and registration and be home by 11:00 pm if they wanted.

And this in itself may be the basis of MS's defence. DM texted CN that it could be a couple hours- or an all nighter, so when she was texting him later on he was just filling her in on his need to sleep. For some reason, MS didn't tell MM that he wasn't coming home at all, leaving her to making early morning phone calls to AM frantically trying to find out where MS was. It would have been pretty easy for MS to tell MM that he was just going to be with DM all night- but he didn't.

IMHO, TD may try to point out to the Jury that the MS had no idea what DM was up to aside for stealing the truck and the owner was suppose to be alive and duct taped in Brantford. Both DM and MS got into the truck with TB. If MS's job was to immobilize TB and then get into the Yukon thinking they were going to drop a gagged and bound TB off at the Bobcat dealership and DM shot TB on the way because maybe TB had worked his self loose, then perhaps the defence is that not only did MS have no idea that DM was going to shoot the guy and spend the night incinerating him, MS did in fact feel he f-up by not restraining TB well enough, giving DM no option but to shoot an innocent man. MOO

I bet DM and his D team have had a long 48 hours. MOO

 

[Georgeo]

Late reply... been away...
Not a lawyer, nor do I claim to be an expert in legal matters... but I believe one argument RP and NS could use against the letters DM wrote, they were illegal against the court "no contact" order. But to my knowledge, DM was not charged for breaching that court order. So the illegal contact via phone "wonderwall" song and the letters he wrote to CN, defense could argue against jury finding out about that illegal activity, DM was not charged, and it could prejudice the jury.

Note that I personally don't agree with that argument, and apparently, neither did Justice Goodman agree. Thankfully the letters were allowed as evidence.

Not a lawyer, nor do I claim to be an expert in legal matters... but I believe one argument RP and NS could use against the letters DM wrote, they were illegal against the court "no contact" order. But to my knowledge, DM was not charged for breaching that court order. So the illegal contact via phone "wonderwall" song and the letters he wrote to CN, defense could argue against jury finding out about that illegal activity, DM was not charged, and it could prejudice the jury.

If those letters had not been admissible, that would have been a severe blow to the Crown's case! So glad that the judge was intelligent enough to see through Pillay's objections. DM wrote those letters, they are directly related to the crime, and should definitely be included in evidence. Jury deserves to know what this tried to do (change testimony, try to frame Smitch, etc.).....

As a layperson, it bothers me to no end when relevant evidence is disallowed. Why is it that the accused have more rights than the victim and his family???? Evidence (all of it) should be permissible, period. None of this cherry picking, and this would make jury see his bad character, or illegal activity..... it is what it is.... he clearly wrote the letters, so he needs to suffer the consequences!

Note that I personally don't agree with that argument, and apparently, neither did Justice Goodman agree. Thankfully the letters were allowed as evidence.[/QUOTE]

 

[Inspector_North]

I am not familiar with the area, and have a question.

Which destination were they headed to when they pulled over at the Bobcat dealership? Why did they make a 180?

From the dealership, which way to the farm? Which way to the hanger?

Thinking that if they were not headed to one of DM's hideouts, that TB was still alive. Once he was no loner a factor, they headed for the farm.

Just seems strange that they would pull over for over 10 minutes and pull a 180. Not that it would change anything since we have heard all crown evidence.

Thoughts?

 

[Georgeo]

Why do you say that? What advantage would that provide?

If they were pulled over while driving TB's truck, it would be very difficult to talk their way out of it... why do you have a truck registered to a missing person? Remember, the phone records were asked for a mere couple of hours after TB was missing....and his licence plate was known and shown on the "missing" posters...