Bosma Murder Trial 06.10.16 - Day 59 - Charge to jury

[ILoveDateline]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 32s33 seconds ago
Evidence is the information that came from testimony in trial. Facts are the evidence that jury accepts to be true. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 37s38 seconds ago
Evidence is what we've heard, the facts are what the jury chooses to believe out of those facts, Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 40s41 seconds ago
Evidence vs facts: testimony at court vs what the jury chooses to believe. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 42s43 seconds ago
Evidence is the testimony heard; facts are what the jurors believe from the evidence, judge says. #TimBosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 50s51 seconds ago
"An accused does not have to testify. That"s his right. It's not evidence." DM didn't get on stand can't be used against him.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 54s55 seconds ago
He clarifies the different between evidence and facts. Facts are what they choose to believe from evidence presented. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
But, jury should also note it's almost impossible to prove something with "absolute certainty," Goodman notes. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
If jury is not sure if accused committed offence, must find him not guilty. #Bosma Now, principles of evidence vs. facts.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 26s27 seconds ago
Consider carefully with an open mind all the evidence you heard at the trial. May believe some, none or all of it.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 40s41 seconds ago
Goodman now touching on witness reliability and credibility. A credible witness can still give unreliable evidence. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 42s43 seconds ago
Credibility/reliability are also to be considered. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Credibility and reliability are not the same. One is about truthfulness, the other, accuracy. #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"Credibility and reliability are not the same thing." Truthfulness vs. accuracy.

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 1m1 minute ago
Judge points out Smichs lawyer pointed out several times DM didn't get on the stand. "Disregard that."

 

[ILoveDateline]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 21s21 seconds ago
Qs to ask themselves: Did the witness seem honest? Any motive to lie? Reason to give favourable evidence? #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 25s25 seconds ago
Goodman tells the jury to consider for each witness if they had a motive to lie, or if they seemed reliable. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 25s25 seconds ago
Goodman tells jurors to ask themselves "does the witness seem honest? Does the witness have a reason to lie?" #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 31s31 seconds ago
A few q's they might keep in mind: did the witness seem honest? Did the witness have a motive to lie? #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 42s42 seconds ago
"If there any reason why a witness may not be telling the truth?"

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 58s58 seconds ago
In the case of each witness, the jury can believe some, all, or none of their evidence, Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 58s58 seconds ago
"Credibility and reliability are not the same thing" Goodman notes the former is truthfulness while the latter is accuracy. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
The jurors have to decide how much and how little they believe of each witness, judge says. They should use common sense. #TimBosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 35s36 seconds ago
He says they must not assume an accused on the stand will lie to secure an acquittal. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 53s54 seconds ago
"Innocent and guilty persons have a strong interest in not being convicted," Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 17s18 seconds ago
Goodman now mentions that Smich pointed out that he testified and Millard didn't. #TimBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 31s32 seconds ago
Goodman says the jury can't assume an accused is likely to lie because he's motivated by an acquittal. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 41s42 seconds ago
The jury shouldn't take Millard's silence as a reason to remove reasonable doubt. He's still entitled to presumption of innocence. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 50s51 seconds ago
However, comments that Millard chose not to testify were "gratuitous" and his silence cannot be considered as evidence. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 54s55 seconds ago
Smich comment on stand that Millard didn't testify: "That comment was entirely gratuitous and self-serving."

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
Judge recalls how Millard and the Crown urge the jury to find that Smich lied in his testimony, but jury must retain assumption of innocence

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
This applies to an accused who testifies in his own defense, judge says. Don't assume he's more likely to lie because his freedom at stake

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Crown suggested Smich lied in his testimony. But jury must maintain presumption of innocence.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
He says crown/Millard's lawyers suggested he did, which is fine. But you cannot just assume he did. #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

FYI, I haven't been including twitter replies (SC has a few). It's logistically tougher to post that way.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 1m1 minute ago
No explaining credibility and reliability. Just because someone is accused doesn't mean they lie. @AM900CHML

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Consider condition of witness, did they have a good memory, genuine account or fabricated, reasonable and consistant...

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Did the witness seem to be telling personal observations? Or putting together an account based on evidence? #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
How accurate did a witness seem to be? Any difficulty remembering seem genuine-or made up? Seem reasonable and consistent? #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
"That comment was entirely gratuitous and self serving," Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 2m2 minutes ago
"Burden proof is on crown to prove guilt." Crown must prove essential elements. Not all. "If u have reasonable doubt . U must acquit."

 

[ILoveDateline]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 25s26 seconds ago
Police officers might seem more comfortable because they're used to testifying. Just bc they check notes doesn't make their evidence better

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 34s35 seconds ago
Goodman says while police officer may appear more comfortable, it does not make them more worthy of belief. #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 42s43 seconds ago
Just because a police officer refers to notes, does not automatically make them more "worthy" of belief. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 47s48 seconds ago
On the flip side, police for ex will often appear more confident because of job. They are to be subject to same test. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 50s51 seconds ago
Goodman says police officers are often used to giving evidence, and will sometimes look more at ease. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"Too many variables to make the manner in which a person testifies" the most important factor. Police officers are used to giving evidence.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
"Looks can be deceiving" Goodman says about the demeanour of witnesses, noting testifying in court "is not a common experience." #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Don't jump to conclusions based entirely on how the person testified, however. Some people can be anxious and react differently. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Goodman tells the jury to remember a witnesses' demeanour, but also cautions them that "looks can be deceiving." #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
More Qs to ask: What was the witness's demeanour? Did they make sense? (But he notes some people might just be nervous on stand). #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Is witness deliberately lying? Explanation for inconsistency? Witness manner or demeanour on stand? ("Looks can be deceiving.")

 

[ILoveDateline]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 39s40 seconds ago
Later Justice Goodman will review various witnesses' testimony...Now hearsay and non-hearsay evidence.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
He will later review various specific witness testimonies. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
"Your task is to carefully consider the testimony of what each witness has said," Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 18s18 seconds ago
Judge points out Smich said several times DM didn't testify. "Those comments were gratuitous and self serving." @AM900CHML

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 34s34 seconds ago
(Re: police comments to him about stolen vehicles). #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
A witnesses' testimony about what was said outside of court usually can't be used by jury -- hearsay. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
As a general rule, what a witness says another person told them can't be considered for the truth of its comments, Goodman says. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 1m1 minute ago
Judge' jury can believe all. Some or none of what a witness says. "Jury must decide if witness had motive to lie. Or if they were reliable."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
What is said by a person out of court to another person cannot be considered.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Hearsay is not admissible. Gives ex from Schlatman's testimony. #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9s9 seconds ago
Non-hearsay evidence includes information an expert received to make his or her conclusions, judge explains.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 34s34 seconds ago
Shane Schlatman testified about what police told him about stolen vehicles related to Millard. That is hearsay. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 59s59 seconds ago
Similarly, Det. Jackson testified about what info he was given from other people about investigation. #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 24s25 seconds ago
Testimony about what an accused says to the person directly is evidence, judge says. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 36s36 seconds ago
We've heard a fair bit of hearsay evidence as the trial has gone on. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 42s42 seconds ago
Hagerman testified about talk with Michalski on May 12 or 13. Michalski also testified about it. Concerns about hearsay "is negligible."

 

[ILoveDateline]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 15s15 seconds ago
Goodman says the Leitch pointed out Dungey didn't put certain questions about Smich's story to other witnesses. #Bosma #TimBosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s44 seconds ago
Judge explaining to the jury how they should weigh the abundance of evidence in this case. #TimBosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 45s45 seconds ago
Fraser also didn't ask Smich if the shooting happened outside the truck. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 53s53 seconds ago
...whether she spoke to Noudga May 10. Those are issues that Smich testified to.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 58s58 seconds ago
If a lawyer doesn't cross examine a witness on an assertion made in court, the jury can use that omission in their decision. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Dungey failed to put questions to Bowman about positioning of vehicles in field or Meneses about...

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Cross-exam of witnesses. Must give witness chance to respond to anything put to them.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 37s38 seconds ago
Consider answers to compound questions carefully. Also, lawyers' suggestion or proposition is not evidence. Just the answer.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 56s57 seconds ago
Questions put to a witness is not evidence, unless the witness agrees to the statement, Goodman says. #TImBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Goodman says the jury can "take the failure" to cross on matters like those into account when weighing the evidence. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Oral evidence comes from testimony. Answers of witnesses is the evidence. Not the questions.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Oral testimony of witnesses is evidence. The questions from the lawyers are not, unless the witness agrees. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
He says if details of someone's testimony are going to be challenged, they should be given chance to respond during cross examination #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 35s35 seconds ago
A lot of the evidence has been filed digitally. They'll be given equipment to watch/listen to all of that. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 45s45 seconds ago
Evidence also includes the 172 exhibits in this case. Those exhibits will go into jury room with the jurors. Many are on DVDs they can see.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 48s48 seconds ago
There re 172 exhibits in this case. When the jury goes out, the exhibits go with them into the jury room. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 54s54 seconds ago
Judge explains what is heard outside of crt can't be considered. Testimony from Shlatman where police referred to stolen vehicles- 1/2

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 55s55 seconds ago
The evidence also includes the exhibits in the case. The jury can examine them in the jury room, if they so choose. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Goodman advises them to closely analyze the testimony, especially answers to compound questions. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
"The lawyer's suggestions or propositions are not evidence," Goodman says, unless the witness agrees. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 34s34 seconds ago
An admission by one accused can't be used against the other accused, judge says. There are 3 formal admissions here #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 55s55 seconds ago
Goodman now addressing admissions made by the accused in this case. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 56s56 seconds ago
An admission is binding only on the party who has agreed to it, Goodman says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 57s57 seconds ago
If all parties at trial agree on fact, jury must accept it as fact. An admission is binding only on the party that has agreed to it. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
There are some agreed facts (or 'admissions') in this case. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
There were 172 exhibits filed in this case. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 2m2 minutes ago
2/2 stolen vehicles related to Millard is hearsay. @AM900CHML

 

[ILoveDateline]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7s7 seconds ago
Millard admits that the letters in Noudga's bedroom were written by him, and that's another one. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 15s15 seconds ago
3. Millard agrees that the 'Noudga letters' seized from her bedroom were authored by him. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 17s17 seconds ago
Dellen Millard's fingerprints were examined by an expert, and he admits the letters seized from his gf closet were authored by him. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 20s20 seconds ago
Three formal admissions in this case: 1. Smich went on test drive with Igor Tumanenko.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 27s27 seconds ago
The second is Dellen Millard was fingerprinted by police and were analyzed. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 44s44 seconds ago
2. Dellen Millard's prints were taken by police, and were analyzed. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 51s51 seconds ago
Goodman says there are three admissions in this case. The first is that Mark Smich went for a test drive with Igor Tumenenko on May 5 2013

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
There are three formal admissions -- Smich being on the Tumanenko test drive is one. #TImBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Smich was the psgr in the Tumanenko test drive. ID'd in a photo lineup. That was an agreed fact. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
1. Smich went on a test drive with Igor Tumenenko on May 5, 2013. He was the rear passenger. He was ID'd in a lineup by Tumenenko. #Bosma

 

[ILoveDateline]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 14s15 seconds ago
Objections by lawyers. Anything said by lawyer in making or answering to objection is not evidence.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 16s17 seconds ago
Objections made by lawyers similarly are not evidence. Don't make anything of that. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 25s26 seconds ago
Goodman says the references to Halo video game as "the killing game" or "real-life Grand Theft Auto" must be disregarded. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 26s27 seconds ago
"You are not to draw any adverse inference ... in respect to the nature of these games." #TimBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 32s33 seconds ago
Goodman tells the jury that Dungey kept calling Halo "killing games." #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 37s38 seconds ago
Dungey's talk about "the killing game" and other characterizations of Halo and Grand Theft Auto are not evidence. Lots of people play them

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 38s39 seconds ago
Essentially a story someone has heard.Is not a direct participant in is hearsay. Questions to witnesses aren't evidence. Unless they agree.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 45s46 seconds ago
Dungey's mention of Halo as a "killing game" and Letich's mention of "real life Grand Theft Auto" must be disregarded.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 51s52 seconds ago
The comments about video games are not evidence. They're not to draw any inference from characterization made by lawyers about the games.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Goodman says that the lawyer's closing arguments, and even what he's saying right now, are not evidence. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Words of lawyers and judge during trial are not evidence. Only words coming from people in witness box are evidence.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Millard also admits that the jailhouse letters sent to Christina Noudga were penned by his hand. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
What the lawyers and judge say is not evidence. Questions and suggestions are not evidence unless witness agrees. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
3. Millard admits the letters seized from bedroom of Christina Noudga were authored by him.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
2. Dellen Millard's fingerprints were taken by @HamiltonPolice

 

[Inspector_North]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
He says if details of someone's testimony are going to be challenged, they should be given chance to respond during cross examination #Bosma

Does that mean that when MM was challenged about the celebratory mood, that her response about it being DM who said the mission was a success overrides the crown questioning when she said both were in a good mood?

MM seemed to slightly change her perspective depending on which team asked her. The mood is a very critical piece of evidence to it being planned or a armed robbery gone wrong.

MOO