'Boy Interrupted' Article

[time]

A quote from the BI article:

Dina stated, “Then detectives started propagating the scooter theory. He was not a daredevil. He was just not that kind of boy.”

Imo, Max was all boy. Dogs, razor scooters, balls, playing soccer with older boys. Most boys are rough and tumble as dictated by their hormones/testosterone. They are very different from most girl children in that way. <snip>

Not sure, I was fairly rough and tumble for a girl!

BBM - I agree, I can't makes sense of Dina's comments that have him competing in Soccer (not a passive sport) against boys two years older and then saying he was not a kid who would ride his scooter upstairs or whatever. :waitasec: He looked like a normal active child to me. I have a grandson who just turned 7 and, last year he tried to hitch a ride in the back of my ex's truck without telling anyone. And, his parents do not let him do everything he wants and nor would they call him a typical daredevil.

 

[freespeech]

Quote from BI article:

"Dina found out that Zahau had moved into Jonah&#8217;s Paradise Valley home sometime in 2010. &#8220;Obviously I wanted to meet this woman who was helping care for my child. So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.&#8221;

Why would a grown mother ask her 5y/o son if she could meet Daddy's new girlfriend? I would have just gone in the house and had a sit down with both Jonah and Rebecca at their house before the drop off to discuss Max's care. I don't think I would be asking my 5y/o if it was OK for me to do my mommy job.

I would think Dina would have wanted to talk about ground rules, bed and bath routines, food preferences, allergies, favorite friends, toys and planned activities while she sized Rebecca up. If she had concerns afterwards I would think she would have spoken with Jonah privately. Apparently she did her own investigation of Rebecca. If she truly thought Rebecca was a dangerous person after that then she should have taken Jonah to court. How do you put a price "bankruptcy" on your child's safety?

I tend to think that Dina knew Rebecca wasn't dangerous or she would have never left Max with her. <modsnip>. Imoo.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I would bet that "Max" is a typo by the magazine and Dina really said "Jonah", when she said, &#8220;Obviously I wanted to meet this woman who was helping care for my child. So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.&#8221;

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

In my experience, a good percentage of individuals who study and practice psychology are interested in that field for personal reasons. I have heard from several doctors that their peers who chose psychiatry tended to be very strange themselves and have their own problems.

Hi FTO, I'm curious you how many individuals you know who "study and practice psychology" and what percentage of those individuals tend to be "very strange themselves and have their own problems?"

 

[freespeech]

Quotes from BI article BBM:

&#8220;Prepare yourself before you see him,&#8221; Jonah told her outside the intensive care unit at Rady Children&#8217;s Hospital in San Diego. She did. It didn&#8217;t help. &#8220;He was wearing a diaper,&#8221; she remembers. &#8220;He had a neck brace and a respirator... and a tube drilled into his skull to remove excess fluids. They said it was a heart attack. I couldn&#8217;t understand how all the injuries... were explained by a heart attack.&#8221;

and then after Rebecca's death Dina stated:

Dina says she got the news at the hospital. &#8220;Jonah was sobbing. He said &#8216;Rebecca killed herself,&#8217;&#8221; Dina recalls. &#8220;I didn&#8217;t know what to say. I was like, &#8216;I&#8217;m so sorry.&#8217; My next thought was &#8216;Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.&#8217; I still believed he would be OK.&#8221;

To me this looks like possible motive to harm Rebecca especially if the top quote is combined with Dr. Peterson's thoughts on suffocation. Of course, apparently the spinal cord contusion was not found to be the cause of cardiac arrest until after Rebecca's death. Did Dr. Peterson ever amend his theory after the MRI results showed that? Why wasn't the MRI done earlier. After, Max fell from a height. Something is very off here, imo.

 

[justice be served]

Hi FTO, I'm curious you how many individuals you know who "study and practice psychology" and what percentage of those individuals tend to be "very strange themselves and have their own problems?"

BBM. Here is one article in Psychology Today that states that theory.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200909/why-shrinks-have-problems

 

[freespeech]

I would bet that "Max" is a typo by the magazine and Dina really said "Jonah", when she said, &#8220;Obviously I wanted to meet this woman who was helping care for my child. So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.&#8221;

Why not just meet her at the drop off? If Dina felt the need to investigate her then she should have taken Jonah back to court if she had legitimate concerns about her child's safety.

Quote from BI BBM:

In lieu of a costly and lengthy court battle, which Dina says could have bankrupted her, she and Jonah agreed on a set of ground rules regarding Max and Rebecca. According to Dina, Rebecca was not allowed to cross state lines alone with Max or take him to an airport. She was not to watch him alone when other members of the Zahau family were present. And she would not go to functions at Phoenix Country Day School, where Max attended kindergarten. The rules gave Dina some peace of mind &#8211; an indemnity against her worst parental fears.

I know Dina did not worry that money was more important than her child's safety. That must have also been a typo because I cannot see that Dina could have any peace of mind or indemnity from parental fear if she truly believed that she was leaving her son with a dangerous person. Also, ditto for the day of Max's accident when she apparently shut off her cell and turned it on in the MORNING and read about Max's accident but didn't go to the hospital on her own immediately but waited until the afternoon when Jonah called her on the working land line and sent the police to go pick her up and bring her to the hospital. More typos?

 

[justice be served]

I would bet that "Max" is a typo by the magazine and Dina really said "Jonah", when she said, “Obviously I wanted to meet this woman who was helping care for my child. So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.”

Perhaps that was a typo and Dina really said "Jonah" instead of "Max". The rest of the quote of "So I went to Jonah and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea." seems improbable but certainly possible.

From personal experience of my own, my ex-husband would not have been "thrilled" that I meet his new girlfriend. JMO.

 

[time]

Quotes from BI article BBM:

“Prepare yourself before you see him,” Jonah told her outside the intensive care unit at Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego. She did. It didn’t help. “He was wearing a diaper,” she remembers. “He had a neck brace and a respirator... and a tube drilled into his skull to remove excess fluids. They said it was a heart attack. I couldn’t understand how all the injuries... were explained by a heart attack.”

and then after Rebecca's death Dina stated:

Dina says she got the news at the hospital. “Jonah was sobbing. He said ‘Rebecca killed herself,’” Dina recalls. “I didn’t know what to say. I was like, ‘I’m so sorry.’ My next thought was ‘Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.’ I still believed he would be OK.”

To me this looks like possible motive to harm Rebecca especially if the top quote is combined with Dr. Peterson's thoughts on suffocation. Of course, apparently the spinal cord contusion was not found to be the cause of cardiac arrest until after Rebecca's death. Did Dr. Peterson ever amend his theory after the MRI results showed that? Why wasn't the MRI done earlier. After, Max fell from a height. Something is very off here, imo.

Yeah, I don't know ... the more I read that article the more totally contradictory statements that are made. There is no way anyone thought Max was going to be just fine. If Dina thought that then why did she send Nina to implore Rebecca to tell her exactly what happened because it might help Max and she says this is because the doctors said he was suffocated. Dina thought Rebecca had harmed Max from the get go, she can't deny that because of the reason given to supposedly send Nina over there. It just adds to it if she thought Max was injured so bad he wasn't coming out of it, but she already reveals he was very badly injured - so what is she trying to claim with all the Max might just need a tutor thing and so on. It boggles my mind that this is all so inconsistent when two people have died.

 

[Salem]

I would bet that "Max" is a typo by the magazine and Dina really said "Jonah", when she said, “Obviously I wanted to meet this woman who was helping care for my child. So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.”

Why would you think this? Just curious. But for a mom to ask their 5-6 year old what they thought about mom meeting dad's new girlfriend is perfectly appropriate and normal, in my opinion.

I can see from the thread that many posters feel differently, but to me it makes perfect sense. This is a new person in your child's life, you want to know how the child feels about the person, so you say to the child - "I'd like to meet this person so I know who you are talking about," or whatever.... and the child (a 5-6 year old is generally very sincere and loving, imo) says "that would be great! I like this person/don't like this person."

Typically, children really appreciate it when the adults in their lives get along - even if they can't express that appreciation.

(I'm expressing my opinion as a poster, not a mod.)

Salem

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Yeah, I don't know ... the more I read that article the more totally contradictory statements that are made. There is no way anyone thought Max was going to be just fine. If Dina thought that then why did she send Nina to implore Rebecca to tell her exactly what happened because it might help Max and she says this is because the doctors said he was suffocated. Dina thought Rebecca had harmed Max from the get go, she can't deny that because of the reason given to supposedly send Nina over there. It just adds to it if she thought Max was injured so bad he wasn't coming out of it, but she already reveals he was very badly injured - so what is she trying to claim with all the Max might just need a tutor thing and so on. It boggles my mind that this is all so inconsistent when two people have died.

According to the NR interview DS & JS were told that evening when they were together at the hospital that Max would never walk again.... because he was very possibly brain dead.... but now DS is trying to tell us she was hope full that morning when JS called her.... but she sent NR over to get information from RZ? So JS knew how bad things were with MS and he calls RZ and leaves her a message.... but he doesn't inform DS?????? yeah...... right..

DS is just saying whatever fits her agenda and it even seems her agenda changes from day to day. :what:

<modsnip>.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Why would you think this? Just curious. But for a mom to ask their 5-6 year old what they thought about mom meeting dad's new girlfriend is perfectly appropriate and normal, in my opinion.

I can see from the thread that many posters feel differently, but to me it makes perfect sense. This is a new person in your child's life, you want to know how the child feels about the person, so you say to the child - "I'd like to meet this person so I know who you are talking about," or whatever.... and the child (a 5-6 year old is generally very sincere and loving, imo) says "that would be great! I like this person/don't like this person."

Typically, children really appreciate it when the adults in their lives get along - even if they can't express that appreciation.

(I'm expressing my opinion as a poster, not a mod.)

Salem

Hi Salem! I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think Max would have been the one to "approve" of Dina meeting Max, so I think it is possibly a mistake. But its not like it matters to the case, anyway, IMO.

 

[time]

According to the NR interview DS & JS were told that evening when they were together at the hospital that Max would never walk again.... because he was very possibly brain dead.... but now DS is trying to tell us she was hope full that morning when JS called her.... but she sent NR over to get information from RZ? So JS knew how bad things were with MS and he calls RZ and leaves her a message.... but he doesn't inform DS?????? yeah...... right..

DS is just saying whatever fits her agenda and it even seems her agenda changes from day to day. :what:

<modsnip>.

BBM - I guess I missed that. And, we also have corroboration (posted again recently) about what the daughter of Dina's boyfriend said online.

I don't understand why Dina is changing the storyline, it is doing her more harm than good - even if she thinks the good is it makes her less suspect.

 

[K_Z]

"So I went to Max and asked if it was OK if I met her. And he was thrilled about the idea.”

Why would you think this? Just curious. But for a mom to ask their 5-6 year old what they thought about mom meeting dad's new girlfriend is perfectly appropriate and normal, in my opinion.

I can see from the thread that many posters feel differently, but to me it makes perfect sense. This is a new person in your child's life, you want to know how the child feels about the person, so you say to the child - "I'd like to meet this person so I know who you are talking about," or whatever.... and the child (a 5-6 year old is generally very sincere and loving, imo) says "that would be great! I like this person/don't like this person."

Typically, children really appreciate it when the adults in their lives get along - even if they can't express that appreciation.

(I'm expressing my opinion as a poster, not a mod.)

Salem

I think the reason so many have a problem with this is because of the way Dina chose to word the sentence. Particularly because as a child psychologist, she should know better. This "asking permission" of a small child, coupled with other statements she has made that indicate an indulgent parenting style, indicate that even with her child psych background, she did not view Max as a child to be parented, but as an "equal" little man, the "elmer's glue" of the relationship, saddled with self-imposed peace making.

I agree with other posters that she seems, from her own statements, to have a weak grasp of what is developmentally appropriate-- EVEN for a child who may have been gifted. Gifted children need even more limits and sophisticated parenting skills than typical children, as they frequently push limits to find out where the boundaries are. The author of the article also ascribed her parenting to a "child wonderland" parenting style. (Which, IMO, is indulgent/ permissive parenting style.) The free access to the fully stocked candy drawer comments are also a window into that kind of parenting. The parent indulges openly and lovingly with "stuff", and the child sets the limits.

If, for example, Dina had told the author, something like, "I wanted to meet the woman who was helping care for my child, and I set up a meeting with Jonah to discuss that. Then I told Max that his Dad and I agreed that it would be good for me to meet Rebecca..." (and included details of when that would occur) that would have been received very differently than the way she chose to word it.

It gives the impression that if Max had said "no, I don't want you to meet her", she would have acquiesced. Or worse yet, set up an acrimonious meeting and relationship, because Max didn't want her to meet RZ, and now she has said she wanted to. These sorts of decisions are WAY above the input of a 5 -6 yo, IMO. It puts too much on the shoulders of a child already in a twice-blended family situation, imo. It is also a hallmark of permissive/ indulgent parenting style (easily googled), which presumes the child is a small adult, and equal in decision making.

 

[time]

Why would you think this? Just curious. But for a mom to ask their 5-6 year old what they thought about mom meeting dad's new girlfriend is perfectly appropriate and normal, in my opinion.

I can see from the thread that many posters feel differently, but to me it makes perfect sense. This is a new person in your child's life, you want to know how the child feels about the person, so you say to the child - "I'd like to meet this person so I know who you are talking about," or whatever.... and the child (a 5-6 year old is generally very sincere and loving, imo) says "that would be great! I like this person/don't like this person."

Typically, children really appreciate it when the adults in their lives get along - even if they can't express that appreciation.

(I'm expressing my opinion as a poster, not a mod.)

Salem

I tend to agree... it depends on how it was done. If it were me, I would mention it to the ex first and then ask my child. Also, I would be careful not to set it up so that I asked my son first so he would then go tell daddy he already agreed to it. See what I mean? It didn't bother me when I first read it but given the tone of the rest of the article, it's possible it was somewhat gamy or coersive since Dina also mentions Jonah saying No to her about some issues related to Rebecca. To me, it sounds like Dina was pushing the envelope and possibly pushing a meeting with Rebecca by asking Max first. If Jonah or Rebecca were to say 'no', then they would have been letting Max down.

 

[K_Z]

I tend to agree... it depends on how it was done. If it were me, I would mention it to the ex first and then ask my child. Also, I would be careful not to set it up so that I asked my son first so he would then go tell daddy he already agreed to it. See what I mean? It didn't bother me when I first read it but given the tone of the rest of the article, it's possible it was somewhat gamy or coersive since Dina also mentions Jonah saying No to her about some issues related to Rebecca. To me, it sounds like Dina was pushing the envelope and possibly pushing a meeting with Rebecca by asking Max first. If Jonah or Rebecca were to say 'no', then they would have been letting Max down.

I agree. In context of her other comments about Rebecca in this article, it sounds manipulative. Using Max as the pawn to force her agenda.

IMO, just as she is doing with her current propaganda campaign, of which this article was a careful part. It's no accident that the husband of one of her Melmed/ Argosy contacts wrote the article. This is not just a grieving mother looking for answers-- it is an all-out frontal attack on a dead woman. Even if Rebecca DID committ suicide, it's tremendously unseemly (manipulative, and disgusting, IMO) to stand up in public and malign every last thing she can think of about RZ. At best, she should stand up and say she doesn't believe what happened, and urge the police to reopen the investigation. Leave names and accusations of specific people out of it-- those belong in private conversations with LE, not splashed on CNN. It is supremely disgusting, IMO, to go on the attack of a dead woman in public-- who cannot defend even her choice of healthy foods in her own home, let alone defend herself from accusations that she harmed Max intentionally, or assisted in a cover up.

 

[Salem]

Okay guys - my sincere apologies for taking the thread off topic. I really did not see anything sinister in DR's comment that she asked Max about meeting RZ. To me, it seemed perfectly normal.

And that's the end of that. Let's get back to the article and I will give myself a one day TO for derailing the thread.

Salem

 

[Betty P]

Hey, I wonder if we can start a thread for Timeline? Or is there one?

I put a version of the Hinkymeter timeline up in the Reference section for this forum. Feel free to link to it and let me know of anything you'd like to add.

 

[freespeech]

I think the reason so many have a problem with this is because of the way Dina chose to word the sentence. Particularly because as a child psychologist, she should know better. This "asking permission" of a small child, coupled with other statements she has made that indicate an indulgent parenting style, indicate that even with her child psych background, she did not view Max as a child to be parented, but as an "equal" little man, the "elmer's glue" of the relationship, saddled with self-imposed peace making.

I agree with other posters that she seems, from her own statements, to have a weak grasp of what is developmentally appropriate-- EVEN for a child who may have been gifted. Gifted children need even more limits and sophisticated parenting skills than typical children, as they frequently push limits to find out where the boundaries are. The author of the article also ascribed her parenting to a "child wonderland" parenting style. (Which, IMO, is indulgent/ permissive parenting style.) The free access to the fully stocked candy drawer comments are also a window into that kind of parenting. The parent indulges openly and lovingly with "stuff", and the child sets the limits.

If, for example, Dina had told the author, something like, "I wanted to meet the woman who was helping care for my child, and I set up a meeting with Jonah to discuss that. Then I told Max that his Dad and I agreed that it would be good for me to meet Rebecca..." (and included details of when that would occur) that would have been received very differently than the way she chose to word it.

It gives the impression that if Max had said "no, I don't want you to meet her", she would have acquiesced. Or worse yet, set up an acrimonious meeting and relationship, because Max didn't want her to meet RZ, and now she has said she wanted to. These sorts of decisions are WAY above the input of a 5 -6 yo, IMO. It puts too much on the shoulders of a child already in a twice-blended family situation, imo. It is also a hallmark of permissive/ indulgent parenting style (easily googled), which presumes the child is a small adult, and equal in decision making.

BBM

I do see the situation very much the same as K_Z in particular the section of her comment where she raised the possible problem of requiring the child to step beyond their appropriate developmental level. That raised an alert for me when coupled with Dina's statement that Max was the family's Elmer's glue and peacemaker. That seems like far to much responsibility for a 5-6 y/o child. I was also taking Dina's comment's in context with her comments that Max played soccer with boys 2 years older than himself.

Dina's expectations seem high pressure, and over the top, imo. Also, the title of the article is named after a documentary about a boy that killed himself which I find negative and somewhat creepy.

Probably I read way to much into to the above mentioned factors. However, the family situation seemed unhealthy and potentially unhappy to me. That's just my opinion and it's really not important to the facts of the case wherever anyone can find any.

Dina's statements lend insight to her motives and agendas however each individual's interpretation will be influenced by their own subjective judgments. That's why reading the opposing views often help me to temper my opinions.

 

[*Lash*]

Dina was fighting off the last remnants of bronchial infection on the morning of Monday, July 11, and had turned off her cell phone to ensure a good night’s sleep. A string of alarming text messages greeted her when she powered up her phone that morning. Her blood ran cold as her eyes ingested ominous words like “fall,” “ambulance” and “hospital.” The land-line phone rang, and she bounded down the stairs to answer it. Jonah was on the line, telling her a police car was on its way to take her to the hospital.

http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

Nina Romano's Phone Interview - 11-7-2011

CROSSTALK:
Can you tell, can you tell me, sorry to interrupt you, can you tell me, uh why she didn't arrive at the hospital with Max at 300pm if he fell down the stairs *at 1000am on Monday?

NINA:
yeah yeah because uh her house um has 3 levels, there's a top level that was converted into a big bedroom area I think and she wasn't feeling well, she had been sick she had the flu, and she went up to the third level tooo sleep. she wears earplugs- she sleeps with earplugs, and so she had gone up there because she didn't sleep well the night before because she was sick and she didn't get much sleep so she went up to the third level, she put her ear plugs in and she went to sleep. So when Jonah was calling her she didn't hear her phone, she had missed his calls, and then finally when the detectives came and they were I guess banging on her door and she finally heard that, that's how that's why there was a time delay.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths