Brianna Denison 19yo Reno NV #8

[ladymemac]

Does anyone know the source of the DNA? DNA from wearing the underwear is a lot different from DNA that may have come from being gagged or bound with it, and LE should be able to tell the difference.

Also, have they stated definitely that the pink underwear IS the Mackay Court resident's, or just that her DNA was on it?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There are a lot of scenarios to place the apartment girl's (could be one of three girls) DNA on the same pair with the victim and the perp:

1. They were in a dirty clothes laundry basket, laying on the floor, or otherwise in the room with Bri and he picked them up.

2. Bri had borrowed one of the girl's in the apartment's underwear.

3. The perp forcibly removed them from one of the girls and used them for whatever reason on Brianna.

4. Bri and the girl had contact prior and the perp's DNA was placed on them later.

5. The perp stole the underwear prior and brought them back to attack Brianna.

6. The perp and the girl had contact and then he used them on Brianna in some way.

7. The female roomate who was not at home left her door unlocked and he took them from her room...used them during the crime to get his DNA and Bri's on them.

 

[DeltaDawn]

IF the second pair were gone before Bri went missing...they would already know that because the girl would have been interviewed and given them that information...so I don't think he stole them prior to her abduction.

Therefore, it doesn't mean he stalks his victims either.

Actually, there are 4 pair now, but two are still missing: Victim #2's and Brianna's. Remember that Bri got dressed to go out at home and then waited on KT to get ready at the apartment. She was wearing a pair of her own when she went out. Where are they?[/quote]

Great observation. That would assume that Brianna was not wearing the pink UW but rather the perp took them in addition. It is also reasonable to believe that Brianna changed UW before going to bed.

First I think everyone is missing 2 points here:

1. The pink underwear were probably taken earlier that night. I believe there was a point at which this apartment was probably empty on that evening. I think after he couldn't get into the Dec vics house he went to that area. And right after Bri went missing who is to say that her friend didn't mention her underwear being missing to the police. This was info they were trying to withhold from the public because only the perp would have known that info.

2. There was a house party going on up the street and he is looking for another vic. That's why the police want to know who was at the house party ..I believe to see if the perp was there or if anyone saw him in the area or around the apartment Bri was staying at. He waits until they are gone ..goes in gets his trophy. Goes back out..waits for everyone to return so he knows he won't be interrupted and then takes Bri off the couch as she is sleeping. I also think he already knew the habits of the occupants there so he knew they wouldn't wake up or be alarmed to hear someone in the house because he knew they had this in and out all the time there.

So yes I do feel he steals the underwear first..and it may only be hours before the attack..but this is what fuels his attacks, what gets him worked up is being able to slip in and out..get the undies..then come back and do his thing.

The reason why LE needed to clarify the other undies (PP THONG) did not have his DNA is that suppose this other vic is in a relationship and never mentioned this before...suppose he hasn't raped her yet....maybe she felt ackward telling her s/o that her undies were missing to have them turn up in police custody with another man's DNA on them. Remember at first they are saying that the thongs had the preps DNA nad another unknown women's. Now that there is no other DNA but the owners and another man, probably her s/o , she can come forward without alot of problems from her s/o.

I don't even know if Bri was wearing undies that night..remember she was in sweats and a top when she was abducted and she may have removed the undies before bed/

JMHO

 

[txsvicki]

This freak must get in apartments of young college age girls somehow, steal underwear and who knows what else, then come back to rape/murder and leave a pair of underwear. That may be why he was trying to get into the other girl's apartment the night before. He already had her underwear and was going to leave another pair or two after raping her again and probably murdering this time. He is really dangerous.

 

[dimples37398]

??????

"Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno."

http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx

 

[10EC_Dad]

First I think everyone is missing 2 points here:

1. The pink underwear were probably taken earlier that night. I believe there was a point at which this aparment was probably empty on that evening. I think after he couldn't get into the Dec vics huse he went to that area.

2. There was a house party going on up the street and he is looking for another vic. That's why the police want to know who was at the huose party ..I believe to see if the perp was there or if anyone saw him in the area or around the apart. Bri was staying at. He waits to they are gone ..goes in gets his trophy. Goes back out..waits for everyone to return and then takes Bri off the couch as she is sleeping.

So yes I do feel he steals the underwear first..and it may only be hours before the attack..but this is what fuels his attacks, what gets him worked up is being able to slip in and out..get the undies..then come back and do his thing.

The reason why LE needed to clarify the other undies did not have his DNA is that suppose this other vic is in a relationship and never mentioned this before...suppose he hasn't raped her yet....maybe she felt ackward telling her s/o that her undies were missing to have them turn up in police custody with another man's DNA on them.

I don't even know if Bri was wearing undies that night..remember she was in sweats when she was abducted and she may have removed the undies before bed/

JMHO

I see how you are trying to piece this theory together. It's just not working for me yet. I may just be slow.

It is quickly accepted that he can break into the apartment of his victims and steal their panties prior to attacking them. Yet, we don't know of any successful breaking and entry by this perp. We do, on the other hand, know of one unsuccessful breaking and entry.

We don't know if he stole the underwear of any victim prior to attacking them. This whole panty fetish theory seems to have been started after the PP thongs were found with Brianna's body.

Obviously, some people have a panty fetish and it is reasonable that a sex offender have such a fetish. Beyond that, I am not sure we have much to build a strong theory concerning this perp having a panty fetish.

 

[10EC_Dad]

??????

"Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno."

[URL="http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx"]http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx[/URL]

This is from the AP who also said this in an AP acrticle on the KOLO site.

This statement is not in the LE release.

 

[txsvicki]

Police think the pink panther underwear came from the house where Brianna was staying? I think it's important for the public to know how sadistic and how demented this guy might be. If he does have a fetish, plans it out, and takes a victim to another location then he would fit the category of a rapist/murderer who is above normal intelligence and very hard to catch.

 

[10EC_Dad]

This freak must get in apartments of young college age girls somehow, steal underwear and who knows what else, then come back to rape/murder and leave a pair of underwear. That may be why he was trying to get into the other girl's apartment the night before. He already had her underwear and was going to leave another pair or two after raping her again and probably murdering this time. He is really dangerous.

Do we know that he has every successfully broke into anyone's apartment? NO

Do we know if he has ever unsuccessfully tried to break into someone's apartment? YES

Do we know of any other victim where he has left someone else's underware? NO

Is he really dangerous? YES

 

[txsvicki]

He illegally entered the apartment where he took Brianna, and he sure tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. Do you think he was maybe just trying to get rid of evidence by leaving the underwear?

Do we know that he has every successfully broke into anyone's apartment? NO

Do we know if he has ever unsuccessfully tried to break into someone's apartment? YES

Do we know of any other victim where he has left someone else's underware? NO

Is he really dangerous? YES

 

[DeltaDawn]

Beyond that, I am not sure we have much to build a strong theory concerning this perp having a panty fetish[/B].

Well Dad he has atleast 3 pair if not 4 of women's underwear that do not belong to him.

It seems that house was left unlocked alot..so there would be no need to break in..he probably just walked into the house. That would be right up his alley.

 

[10EC_Dad]

He illegally entered the apartment where he took Brianna, and he sure tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. Do you think he was maybe just trying to get rid of evidence by leaving the underwear?

Yes he entered the apartment where he took Brianna, but he did not break in and steal underware.

I assume you are talking about the underware left with Brianna's body. One pair was taken with her body so it makes since that it would be left with her body. The other pair, as I have stated before, is the odd piece to this puzzle. Was it left on purpose by the perp? Was it accidently left by the perp? Was it already there when he dropped Brianna's body?

 

[EnvoyDriver61]

AP speculates that something said at the Press Conference infers that police believe both sets of underwear were from the house. There was DNA left at the house (many here believe it was from oily prints or something).

There is DNA on the pink underwear (we may surmise that it is semen or other fluid). But, there is none of his DNA on the PP thong.

How does a guy leave DNA at the house on one set of UW but not on the other, yet someone infers that the pink underwear was also taken from the house? How could that pair of underwear not contain his DNA but other items do? He doesn't seem to wear gloves, otherwise no DNA at the house. But, how does the PP thong not have his DNA on it?

At some point it seems he has to be wearing gloves when handling the PP thong. Could he have dressed Brianna with the PP thong while wearing gloves and place them over the pink underwear? And then, he strips both pair of underwear off when disposing of the body (that's how I think they are entwined and near the body).

 

[10EC_Dad]

Well Dad he has atleast 3 pair if not 4 of women's underwear that do not belong to him.

It seems that house was left unlocked alot..so there would be no need to break in..he probably just walked into the house. That would be right up his alley.

We don't know if he has any underwear with him. Remember that women's underwear is not unusual in the type of crime he has committed.

It is possible that he steals underwear every night but I don't see any signs that indicates he does.

I understand that it is speculation. It seems, if we are not careful, speculation can quickly be assumed as fact here.

 

[10EC_Dad]

AP speculates that something said at the Press Conference infers that police believe both sets of underwear were from the house. There was DNA left at the house (many here believe it was from oily prints or something).

There is DNA on the pink underwear (we may surmise that it is semen or other fluid). But, there is none of his DNA on the PP thong.

How does a guy leave DNA at the house on one set of UW but not on the other, yet someone infers that the pink underwear was also taken from the house? How could that pair of underwear not contain his DNA but other items do? He doesn't seem to wear gloves, otherwise no DNA at the house. But, how does the PP thong not have his DNA on it?

At some point it seems he has to be wearing gloves when handling the PP thong. Could he have dressed Brianna with the PP thong while wearing gloves and place them over the pink underwear? And then, he strips both pair of underwear off when disposing of the body (that's how I think they are entwined and near the body).

Well, inferences are a personal thing. Who knows how the AP writer came to that conclusion. LE certainly did not print that in their release.

Intertwined can mean many things. LE did not say they were tied together. It could mean that neither pair of underwear were on Brianna's body when she was found. We do not know if her other clothing was with or on her when she was found.

One scenario I come up with, and this is purely speculation, is that Brianna's body was nude. Her clothing was found close to her body. Inside or with her clothing were the two pair of panties, intertwined. How does the PP thong not have his DNA? His DNA was already on the pink panties, probably from a sex act. It is possible that he grabs Brianna's clothing then grabs both panties with the same hand, before picking up Brianna's body and dumping everything at once. It is not a real tight scenario but possible.

 

[NewMommy09]

Well, I am going to definitely need some time to wrap my head around this new information, but here are some of my thoughts after reading the last 5 pgs of this thread and the new info.

Someone suggested early on in the case that maybe the perp was IN the home when the girls arrived, rather than entering the home after they went to sleep. I think, especially now, this is a very possible theory. Jessica did not live at the home, but she was the first one to arrive there. Since they didn't bother locking the doors at night, I doubt they locked them when they were gone, and Jessica arriving home first and not being a resident supports that theory. Most likely Jessica was able to enter because the door was not locked. So, it stands to reason that the perp could very well have entered the home and hidden until later, or taken the UW and left and returned later. I think he was most likely already in there. Perhaps, he was in the process of taking the UW when Bri and KT arrived home and he hid out until they went to bed. Would explain why the dog didn't bark.

I was also thinking along the lines that the perp may take underwear from girls he stalks and plans to attack in the future. Perhaps he took the UW previously and had returned that night to abduct or rape the owner of the UW. Brianna was convenient. Thinking along these lines, the PP underwear would likely be from a future vic.

I highly doubt Bri borrowed a friends UW, and if she did, it would not have been a pair that was already worn. She would more likely go commando than wear someone else's used underwear.

 

[NewMommy09]

Also, I still feel that the bear is a huge part of this case and will end up being significant.

I'm beginning to think that the bear was taken because it "excited" the perp. We know he goes for smaller young women, and the fact that they would be easier to control is obvious, but perhaps, he has a bit of pedophilia thing going on, and the smaller girls excite him. Maybe seeing Bri with the bear excited him on that level and he took the bear along to include in his sick games.

 

[10EC_Dad]

Well, I am going to definitely need some time to wrap my head around this new information, but here are some of my thoughts after reading the last 5 pgs of this thread and the new info.

Someone suggested early on in the case that maybe the perp was IN the home when the girls arrived, rather than entering the home after they went to sleep. I think, especially now, this is a very possible theory. Jessica did not live at the home, but she was the first one to arrive there. Since they didn't bother locking the doors at night, I doubt they locked them when they were gone, and Jessica arriving home first and not being a resident supports that theory. Most likely Jessica was able to enter because the door was not locked. So, it stands to reason that the perp could very well have entered the home and hidden until later, or taken the UW and left and returned later. I think he was most likely already in there. Perhaps, he was in the process of taking the UW when Bri and KT arrived home and he hid out until they went to bed. Would explain why the dog didn't bark.

I was also thinking along the lines that the perp may take underwear from girls he stalks and plans to attack in the future. Perhaps he took the UW previously and had returned that night to abduct or rape the owner of the UW. Brianna was convenient. Thinking along these lines, the PP underwear would likely be from a future vic.

I highly doubt Bri borrowed a friends UW, and if she did, it would not have been a pair that was already worn. She would more likely go commando than wear someone else's used underwear.

Some good thinking there. It is possible he was in the apartment prior to KT and Brianna, but where? I don't think he would have been there long or he would have taken Jessica. He would, also, probably left fingerprints on a door or door knob on the room he hid in.

I am not sure what kind of KT's DNA were on the panties. It could be from her getting them out of the drawer for Brianna.

 

[NewMommy09]

Some good thinking there. It is possible he was in the apartment prior to KT and Brianna, but where? I don't think he would have been there long or he would have taken Jessica. He would, also, probably left fingerprints on a door or door knob on the room he hid in.

I am not sure what kind of KT's DNA were on the panties. It could be from her getting them out of the drawer for Brianna.

Do we know the DNA was KT's? Just want to verify if this is fact or not.

Also, we know that some of the rooms were unused (rooms owner not there) because the morning of Bri's abduction, they originally thought she went to sleep in one of the bedrooms. The perp could have easily hid in there. Also, he could have been there to adbuct Jessica, and KT and Bri came home before he had the chance.

I have also questioned whether the DNA evidence could be being planted by the perp. It just seems odd the way they have gotten some of the DNA (oils) and it almost seems that he is choosing where/how it's left. But that is just my speculation and is only one of many theory's.

 

[10EC_Dad]

Do we know the DNA was KT's? Just want to verify if this is fact or not.

Also, we know that some of the rooms were unused (rooms owner not there) because the morning of Bri's abduction, they originally thought she went to sleep in one of the bedrooms. The perp could have easily hid in there. Also, he could have been there to adbuct Jessica, and KT and Bri came home before he had the chance.

I have also questioned whether the DNA evidence could be being planted by the perp. It just seems odd the way they have gotten some of the DNA (oils) and it almost seems that he is choosing where/how it's left. But that is just my speculation and is only one of many theory's.

You are correct, I have stated this as fact when it is not know to be. I appreciate your stopping this before it goes further!

I agree that he could have hidden in an empty room if one was unlocked. You would think he would have left finger prints but maybe not.

I agree that Jessica could have been the victim he had enough time to take her. That leads me to think that if he was in the apartment prior to Brianna and KT, it was not for long.

I don't see him purposely choosing where to leave his the DNA. It seems like it has been left everywhere except for the PP thong. Did I miss something?