Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...#2

[Zuri]

Disagreement is not intolerance.
Saying someone is wrong is not intolerance.
And it is not hateful to say so.

JMO

I respect your opinion, whatever it may be. In this circumstance, I personally don't think I can say that Caitlin's transformation from male to female is wrong as that is a personal choice. Only she knows what is right for her.

I was speaking more broadly. Whether one disagrees or agrees with her choice is a moot point. IMO, compassion for those tormented by gender identification and tolerance for those that make choices other than what society deems as normal, would be a wonderful thing.

 

[IndianSummer]

The transphobic comments in this thread are disgusting.

For the people who don't treat trans* people as second class citizens and faulty, and can see that humans aren't just black and white as far as bodies and mind go and that there are many gray areas - thank you.

If we could all respect one another and let people live their lives (as long as they aren't harmful to others), then the world would be a better place.

Those of you who keep misgendering Caitlyn on purpose - shame on you. You are degrading her rights as a human being.

The Media runs the train in this country.
Bruce uses them & they use him.
So the chips fall.

To generalize with "those people" ," those of you" - "shame on you"
Goes against your "humans aren't just black and white as far as (mind)".
IMO Bruce is not a hero nor championing for others.
IMO Bruce cares only about Bruce.

 

[IndianSummer]

I respect your opinion, whatever it may be. In this circumstance, I personally don't think I can say that Caitlin's transformation from male to female is wrong as that is a personal choice. Only she knows what is right for her.

I was speaking more broadly. Whether one disagrees or agrees with her choice is a moot point. IMO, compassion for those tormented by gender identification and tolerance for those that make choices other than what society deems as normal, would be a wonderful thing.

A wonderful thing may be - realizing not everyone is going to accept everything.


JMO

 

[LaneGirl]

A wonderful thing may be - realizing not everyone is going to accept everything.


JMO

That's what makes us different from animals and each other and that is a wonderful thing. Different is good. Otherwise we'd all be boring having the same thoughts and opinions.

Maybe acceptance (receive with approval or favor) in this area isn't for you. Zuri mentioned tolerance (a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions, beliefs, and practices that differ from one's own) that is a wonderful thing not just for the other person but for oneself.

 

[james83]

How would a "disorder" (that you don't believe in) be different from a mental problem?

In the simplest possible terms i mean if you genuinely believe you are a man who should have been born a woman(or vice versa) you are mentally ill and should not be encouraged to live like a woman, all this celebrating of what Bruce has done is a bit vomit inducing to me.
IMO he is a mentally ill person or just a very kinky one.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Now, Kim, you know me well enough to know I didn't expect you to change your opinion because of my post.

You haven't offended me in any way.

But I have to wonder: as a matter of mere courtesy, why would we insist on assigning a sexual identity to someone that makes him or her uncomfortable? What is to be gained that is worth the hurt we will cause?

(TOOTSIE is a great movie, but it starred Dustin Hoffman, Jessica Lange and Bill Murray. IIRC, Pryor wasn't in it.)

What was I thinking??? Lol
Sorry.
Yes Tootsie was a great movie. Even though I had it all mixed up in my sun/heat/tired/softball mom brain.

I don't insist on assigning a sexual identity to someone that makes him or her uncomfortable. It's not like I'm in his face insisting he's a man. I'm giving my opinion on a discussion board. Isn't that what we are here for?

I read his kids still call him Dad and his Mom still calls him Bruce. I doubt very seriously he gives a crap what a lady in Louisiana refers to him as. I think he would care more about how I feel about his heart. And like I've said numerous times, I've always admired Bruce Jenner. I think he's a great person. I don't care how he dresses or what he calls himself. I care more about how he treats others and the fact that he is a decent human being.

I'm not hardhearted at all.

I wish him the best in life. We all deserve happiness. My choice of pronouns will not change his life in the least.

Hope this clarifies.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

What the heck does Richard Pryor have to do with Tootsie?

I misspoke and I apologize. If only we could all be perfect.

 

[james83]

The transphobic comments in this thread are disgusting.

For the people who don't treat trans* people as second class citizens and faulty, and can see that humans aren't just black and white as far as bodies and mind go and that there are many gray areas - thank you.

If we could all respect one another and let people live their lives (as long as they aren't harmful to others), then the world would be a better place.

Those of you who keep misgendering Caitlyn on purpose - shame on you. You are degrading her rights as a human being.

You should have just wrote "The world will be a better place if everyone agrees with what i think".

 

[james83]

What does that mean and how do you form an opinion about Jenner's interior reality?

Just my personal read on Jenner, maybe i'm wrong maybe he's mentally ill.

 

[james83]

This isn't magic, it's science. What exactly are your credentials to form an opinion on the veracity of the diagnosis?

And why do you expect the majority of transsexuals to be M2F? Because women have it so easy in our culture?

No credentials, personal opinion.
I don't expect that the majority of transsexuals are M2F, its a fact that 75% are M2F, why that is i don't know but i expect it's a lot to do with fetish.

 

[Dallen]

For all the posters here that say this is mainly about money on Caitlyn's part, I have a question:

How much money would it take for you to transition to and live the rest of your life as your opposite gender, in public, with your every move documented by paparazzi and film crews?

I don't believe it's all about money. I believe he would've chose to do this with or without fame. But I also believe he is using his fame to both profit financially and to inspire others going through the same. Of course it takes a lot of money to do this, so without his fame he may not have been able to afford to transition.

 

[LaneGirl]

What was I thinking??? Lol
Sorry.
Yes Tootsie was a great movie. Even though I had it all mixed up in my sun/heat/tired/softball mom brain.

I don't insist on assigning a sexual identity to someone that makes him or her uncomfortable. It's not like I'm in his face insisting he's a man. I'm giving my opinion on a discussion board. Isn't that what we are here for?

I read his kids still call him Dad and his Mom still calls him Bruce. I doubt very seriously he gives a crap what a lady in Louisiana refers to him as. I think he would care more about how I feel about his heart. And like I've said numerous times, I've always admired Bruce Jenner. I think he's a great person. I don't care how he dresses or what he calls himself. I care more about how he treats others and the fact that he is a decent human being.

I'm not hardhearted at all.

I wish him the best in life. We all deserve happiness. My choice of pronouns will not change his life in the least.

Hope this clarifies.

JMO

BBM - Of this you are correct. However I think your choice of pronouns COULD (caps for emphasis only) help a person going through these types of feelings, feel a little better and safer knowing you acknowledge how they feel. It's just an act of kindness that you never know what kind of impact you can have on someone even on a discussion board.

 

[LinasK]

N



She has been counseled to live as a woman for one full year before the gender re-assignation surgery( if she chooses to do so) She also has to have two recommendations from psychologists , which she states she already has.

Why if you already have the breasts and already had surgery to reduce the adam's apple? Those seems pretty permanent changes already...

 

[nrdsb4]

Why if you already have the breasts and already had surgery to reduce the adam's apple? Those seems pretty permanent changes already...

adam's apple, yes, but as a RN who works plastic surgery OR, I can say that breast implants are actually NOT permanent, even for most women who want to keep theirs. They can be removed at any time, and they don't last forever, so they have to be replaced eventually.

 

[hopeandglory]

You should have just wrote "The world will be a better place if everyone agrees with what i think".

Caitlyn being a woman is not "what I think" - it's a fact. She identifies as a woman, and she should be treated as such.

Rightfully calling her 'her' is not a matter of opinion. you wouldn't call someone who identifies as a man she, would you?

You don't have to agree with her transition and you are not required to understand the science behind transgenderism, but the very least you can, and should, do is to refer to her with her name and the appropriate pronouns.

 

[james83]

Caitlyn being a woman is not "what I think" - it's a fact. She identifies as a woman, and she should be treated as such.

Rightfully calling her 'her' is not a matter of opinion. you wouldn't call someone who identifies as a man she, would you?

You don't have to agree with her transition and you are not required to understand the science behind transgenderism, but the very least you can, and should, do is to refer to her with her name and the appropriate pronouns.

That is incorrect, he is a man.

 

[LaneGirl]

That is incorrect, he is a man.

You are correct:

Man

the human individual as representing the species, without reference to sex; the human race; humankind

a human being; person:

 

[Montjoy]

That is incorrect, he is a man.

Why does this matter to you?

 

[james83]

Why does this matter to you?

Was i wrong?, what sex is the person we are discussing?.

 

[jjenny]

adam's apple, yes, but as a RN who works plastic surgery OR, I can say that breast implants are actually NOT permanent, even for most women who want to keep theirs. They can be removed at any time, and they don't last forever, so they have to be replaced eventually.

Breast implants can be removed. But multiple facial feminization surgeries are not reversible.