By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[reintarnation]

After the CBS special and Dr Phil interviews, I am not surprised to see a large majority now feeling that BDI.

I always felt RDI, specifically PDI, with PR and JR participating in the cover up. But with the new evidence presented on BR...it just really makes more sense overall to me, IMHO. That's not to say other scenarios aren't possible, but using only the evidence available to us, BDI fits with more of it than anything else IMO.

It's also very compelling to see that so many experts and LE officials have come to believe this as well, have held strong to RDI over two decades, and that a GJ ruled the way that they did back in '99. I just don't see how someone could deny all of that, especially those who hold on to IDI.

Thanks, Tricia, for your part in keeping this case alive. And also for the new, enlightening poll.

 

[Nick No Nora]

If Burke was poking JonBenet with the tracks, then it would be appear to be an accidental death.

 

[johnjay]

I'm thinking Burke hit JBR on the head, applied the garrote, and poked her with the train tracks. Why? I don't expect to be able to sort through the motives of a child with "issues". But I'm thinking he was in a rage. But, since so many are speculating, perhaps the garrote was meant as a tourniquet and Burke was just "being a boyscout."

(Last night Kolar mentioned something about being unhappy with his Christmas presents - what was that all about)

 

[johnjay]

If Burke was poking JonBenet with the tracks, then it would be appear to be an accidental death.

Unless he was making sure the deadly deed was done.

 

[johnjay]

In a way I can understand JR and PR want to save their remaining child but the fact remains they could have saved both if they would have gotten BR the help he needed before this night. I would bet my life on it there were signs and incidents that happened in that home way before that awful night of BR resentment for JBR. I am sure more incidences happened that were ever made public or witnessed by friends of the family. Hell, JBR dog did not live with them it lived with a neighbor!!! RED FLAG!! JR and PR let both their children down. It should never had been let to esculate to the events of that night. Do I feel it was an accident on BR part...I am really conflicted. I think the resentment was so deep. Just the fact there was no emotion shown during his childhood interviews speaks volumes. He was an only child again that is what he wanted. But only BR truly knows that answer and that is buried deep down inside him after all the years of hiding this big secret. RIP JonBenet.

I think many, perhaps even most, parents ignore or downplay these sorts of warning signs thinking that all siblings go through something similar and their child isn't that bad or abnormal. And while it rarely ends this tragically, it often leaves psychological scars that never go away.

 

[Katharine]

I have always suspected the son Burke did it due to jealousy etc. CBS special and other recent venues confirmed. I am mixed but I hope it was by accident.

 

[Nick No Nora]

Unless he was making sure the deadly deed was done.

Well, the most likely way for the killer to do that would have been to hit her again.

Of course, then, that brings up the question of the garrote.

 

[Trident]

OTHER. What I mean by that is all 3. IMO, could have killed her. First, it's possible Burke hit her in a moment of rage. He didn't mean to kill her, but when she didn't move he may have roused one or both of his parents. At some point the parents knew she wasn't dead, but were smart enough to know she was on the verge. They also knew IF she lived, by some miracle, she would be seriously brain damaged and they didn't want her to live her life that way, nor for their son to live with the guilt. I'm sure Burke was no longer present, probably sent to bed. Now, IMO, along comes the garrote to put JB out of her misery, and the rest of the cover up by the parents. I don't believe Burke knew his blow caused her brain death since she was still alive, nor do I believe he knows now. I think the parents hid the truth from him also, using the pedophile excuse, IDI, to keep him from guilt and all of its ramifications and so everyone would remember JB as the beautiful, little girl she once was.

All of this is simply my opinion

 

[TTF14]

I said I don't know even though if I HAD to choose one of the others, I'd choose Burke. I'm just hung up on that DNA.....

 

[johnjay]

Well, the most likely way for the killer to do that would have been to hit her again.

Of course, then, that brings up the question of the garrote.

Yep, how do you know when you strangled her to death? Poke her hard with a train track ...

But seriously, I don't think I can know what goes through the mind of a 10 year old boy, especially one with serious issues, it could be anything. He may have wanted to killer her and yet not really understand death. We're not likely to ever know what actually happened. CBS didn't reveal that - but they probably got more people heading in the right direction.

 

[chlban]

I went from thinking the Ramsey's were innocent, to being in the 86% that think Burke was involved.

I guess the Ramsey team attempt at damage control, via Dr. Phony, didn't work out so well then. Good thing the sleazy doctor didn't have any credibility to lose.

Early on I was BDI because it was the only reason I could figure that the parents would work together on a cover up. However, as I read the books and articles over the years I became strongly PDI. I am not sure I can say that I am completely on board with BDI, but I would now consider myself about 40% PDI, 60%BDI.

One of my main sticking points is the behavior of John and Patsy that morning. I still don't believe that John would have signed off on the ridiculous ransom note. Yes, she could have done that while he was doing something else but that was too important for him not to have read over it first, IMO.

I also don't see why he would have told LE that the house was locked up and also volunteered the information about breaking the window, when it would have been a perfect red herring. It certainly worked on Lou Smit. While I consider John to be one of the most disgusting humans on this earth, even more so after his appalling comments to D.P., I have a hard time believing he was aware of what happened until he read the ridiculous ransom note and immediately recognized not only Patsy's writing, but Patsy's style. I think the fact that she had invited half of Boulder over that morning prevented any kind of confrontation and I think that is exactly what she wanted.

All just my opinion of course. I am just glad that the ludicrous IDI theory has been largely put to rest.

Edited to add, that in either case, Patsy or Burke, I don't think either intended to kill her, but it was a fit of rage, she hit her head and they likely thought she was dead. I am going to believe they thought she was dead....

 

[wyome]

I lurk here occasionally, but I am definitely a newbie to this case, so forgive any stupid questions.

I did see the CBS special (although missing a hour or so from part 2 due to faulty taping -- thanks, DirectTV).

Was wondering if anyone has read anything or seen any interviews that give any insights to how JR's older children feel about the dynamics between JBR and Burke. Was he close John's other children or look up to them as aunts/uncles, spend time with them?

I didn't see the DrPhil special. I can't stand that man. Did the special indicate what Burke's life is like now? Does he live alone? In a relationship?

I believe Burke is firm in the belief that he did not kill JBR. The R's coverup with garote and ransom note has completely exonorated him in his own mind. If he had any memory of hitting her or fighting with her that night, I'm pretty sure these memories have been compartmentalized deep somewhere and he has no recall. I think they argued around the train tracks that evening, he stabbed her hard with one of the tracks and that caused her to scream (didn't the neighbors hear a scream that night?). In a panic that his parents would overhear, he smashed her over the head with the flashlight. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to shut her up, but then fearing his parents overheard her scream, he ran back up to his room immediately after hitting her. He may not have even realized what he had done had knocked her out or caused her any serious harm. One or both parents came down and found her very soon after and the rest is history.

I bet you the Rs knew that Burke had hurt her when they found her unresponsive, but never questioned him. The parents probably never ran up to his room and asked "what the hell happened?" because that would have seared in his memory a guilt, and he would have known that night she was hurt. Burke was probably relieved he wasn't in trouble that night. The next morning, JBR is "gone" and there is a ransom note. In 9 year-old Burke's mind, someone came in and took her.

Imho, The Ramsay's knew Burke was troubled, and decided staging and silence was better for Burke, than calling 911 to try to save their daughter. It would seem to me that a parent's first reaction would be to run upstairs and confront their other child on what happened. The fact that they had the resolve to stay downstairs and conspire together to stage a crime scene screams to me just how deeply troubled they knew Burke was.

 

[Tssiemer]

Burke but on accident. If the strangulation finished her off then the cover up is what killed her.


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[TeaTime]

Intentional blow by Burke.

BTW - Dr. Spitz proved that the marks on JBR's body were done post mortem and LE proved that the train track is an exact fit. Burke was poking her to see if she would move. I am now open to believing that Burke also strangled her with cording that PR had in her paint tray which was full of sweater fibers.

I came away from all of these shows with the feeling that Burke is much more disturbed than any of us can imagine. Damaged goods.

 

[Stella888]

Burke (reminds me of my brother growing up). My childhood was very similar to this, so I can relate to "how" this happened. My brothers behavior was always brushed under the rug and the facade of a happy family was way more important than my well being. RIP JonBenet.


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[kaykay543]

I guess the Ramsey team attempt at damage control, via Dr. Phony, didn't work out so well then. Good thing the sleazy doctor didn't have any credibility to lose.

Early on I was BDI because it was the only reason I could figure that the parents would work together on a cover up. However, as I read the books and articles over the years I became strongly PDI. I am not sure I can say that I am completely on board with BDI, but I would now consider myself about 40% PDI, 60%BDI.

One of my main sticking points is the behavior of John and Patsy that morning. I still don't believe that John would have signed off on the ridiculous ransom note. Yes, she could have done that while he was doing something else but that was too important for him not to have read over it first, IMO.

I also don't see why he would have told LE that the house was locked up and also volunteered the information about breaking the window, when it would have been a perfect red herring. It certainly worked on Lou Smit. While I consider John to be one of the most disgusting humans on this earth, even more so after his appalling comments to D.P., I have a hard time believing he was aware of what happened until he read the ridiculous ransom note and immediately recognized not only Patsy's writing, but Patsy's style. I think the fact that she had invited half of Boulder over that morning prevented any kind of confrontation and I think that is exactly what she wanted.

All just my opinion of course. I am just glad that the ludicrous IDI theory has been largely put to rest.

Edited to add, that in either case, Patsy or Burke, I don't think either intended to kill her, but it was a fit of rage, she hit her head and they likely thought she was dead. I am going to believe they thought she was dead....

Keep in mind there wasn't a lot of time to do the cover up. They were supposed to board the plane early for their trip. So everything had to be done before approx 6 am. There probably wasn't time for John to proof read the ransom note. Especially since she made it so long. I also think this is why PR has the same clothes on. I don't think she ever took her clothes off. Remember she stayed up to finish packing for the trip. I don't think she ever went to bed.

Also intense stress does odd things to people. Many have pointed out there is no way John could have ran upstairs, checked BR and then got fully dressed before the first officer arrived after the call. The officer arrived in just a few minutes because he/she was close by.

One thing I haven't seen brought up in the forum is a couple years later when JR filed that police report about getting in a fight with an intruder at his home in GA. Everyone thought it was totally made up. And I remember an interview with John saying something to the effect "see intruders do break into homes even when you have security" etc. Very telling I think.

 

[dogperson]

I think Burke hit her in the head but probably didn't intend brain damage or death. I also think he may have done the garrotte, otherwise the parents could have avoided the huge cover up and claimed an accident. Not sure about the paintbrush as to who did it.
I've heard some controversy about which came first, the head blow or garrotte. If head blow was first the garrotte seems intentional to finish the job. If the garrotte was first then it may have been sexually motivated and the head blow was to keep her from struggling.
I believe PR wrote the ransom note while JR further staged the scene.

 

[sassyblue]

Burke. I think he remembers every minute of that night too and smiles at the memories.

 

[rob]

Seeing BR on tv as a 29 year old man, I have no problem thinking this was one troubled kid. Maybe the parents were able to control him better AFTER the death of JB cause they could hold it over his head.
I'm assuming he went to college and has some type of job now ???? I can't imagine him fitting in with his peers or actually doing a job, he's so childish and immature acting. Does he work for dad? Has he ever been on a date? had a girlfriend? is he gay?

 

[reintarnation]

Maybe the parents were able to control him better AFTER the death of JB cause they could hold it over his head.

Good observation!