Found Deceased CA - Audrey Moran, 26, & Jonathan Reynoso, 28, Riverside County, 10 May 2017 #2 *4 arrested*

Status
Not open for further replies.
Read through this and the previous thread on the case quite quickly so apologies if I'm repeating, but didn't see anything - has the possibility of a 'blue light bandit'-type traffic stop been discussed? Not sure whether it has any real potential when placed alongside all the known evidence, but may fit with the placement of the car, the tracked scents and a seemingly quiet response from LE thus far.

Just trying to think of new angles, all pure speculation/random musing of course.
 
Does anybody know if the LE ever interviewed the delivery guy/girl from dominos pizza??
 
Read through this and the previous thread on the case quite quickly so apologies if I'm repeating, but didn't see anything - has the possibility of a 'blue light bandit'-type traffic stop been discussed? Not sure whether it has any real potential when placed alongside all the known evidence, but may fit with the placement of the car, the tracked scents and a seemingly quiet response from LE thus far.

Just trying to think of new angles, all pure speculation/random musing of course.

i guess it's possible but doesn't quite fit the narrative...Jon going to brawley with unknown people at 6ish after pizza, audry at her sister's at 8:45 going towards brawley (assuming halfway) to pick him up. Her phone, maybe his too never pings out of couchilla valley. I guess they could have got blue lighted around their rendezvous point but the unknown people and quick turnaround trip to brawley is unexplained.
 
I feel like 3 scenarios..if he went to brawley for a good reason those ppl whoever he was with would of came forward by now, he went for a negative reason so whoever he went with will not come forward or he didn't go at all...

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
 
i guess it's possible but doesn't quite fit the narrative...Jon going to brawley with unknown people at 6ish after pizza, audry at her sister's at 8:45 going towards brawley (assuming halfway) to pick him up. Her phone, maybe his too never pings out of couchilla valley. I guess they could have got blue lighted around their rendezvous point but the unknown people and quick turnaround trip to brawley is unexplained.

Agreed, although AFAIK the pizza thing (and indeed the entire Brawley trip) remains an unconfirmed spanner in the timeline. I haven't seen on a map exactly where Audrey's sister's place is, relative to Audrey's start point and supposed direction of travel (I have seen exactly where the car was found). Would be helpful to see that approximate route drawn up, or as much if it as we can infer, if anyone has the time/inclination.

Re: phone pings, I'm a little sketchy on specifics - am I right in thinking you only get a 'ping' when your phone is switched on AND trying to send or receive information? In other words, it doesn't ping while off or idle, right?

Happy to be corrected, but if I've understood that right, then the only way a phone ping can only tell you where somebody *wasn't* is by a process of elimination after it tells you where they *were*. No pings coming from a particular location doesn't really say anything on its own.

I did also wonder if the location of the car might suggest a possible altercation with someone merging onto the freeway 100yds back. On-ramps are a common spot for near misses and suchlike. Although that scenario really would ask more questions than it answers re: where the car was headed at the time, so it's not especially helpful I know.
 
Wow there's so much misleading information out there. Can anyone please provide a link with fact.

I have a few questions hope anyone can answer since I been reading so many inconsistencies.

Did Jon had an actual cellphone plan or was his phone disconnected and only received wifi services?

Also has anyone heard of other missing people around that area and about the same time they went missing? If the friends haven't come toward maybe they're also missing??? Just a possibility

About the AM phone pin, does anyone know if you're not receiving or sending messages/calls but yet you're traveling from one place to another can another tower pin your phone?
For example ( I'm in LA and I send my mom a text at 6am but then I start driving to San Fransisco during that time I don't receive any calls or text since LA... will my phone pin in LA tower since that's the last time I used it or will it show in San Fransisco although I didn't used it all that time)
 
Agreed, although AFAIK the pizza thing (and indeed the entire Brawley trip) remains an unconfirmed spanner in the timeline. I haven't seen on a map exactly where Audrey's sister's place is, relative to Audrey's start point and supposed direction of travel (I have seen exactly where the car was found). Would be helpful to see that approximate route drawn up, or as much if it as we can infer, if anyone has the time/inclination.

Re: phone pings, I'm a little sketchy on specifics - am I right in thinking you only get a 'ping' when your phone is switched on AND trying to send or receive information? In other words, it doesn't ping while off or idle, right?

Happy to be corrected, but if I've understood that right, then the only way a phone ping can only tell you where somebody *wasn't* is by a process of elimination after it tells you where they *were*. No pings coming from a particular location doesn't really say anything on its own.

I did also wonder if the location of the car might suggest a possible altercation with someone merging onto the freeway 100yds back. On-ramps are a common spot for near misses and suchlike. Although that scenario really would ask more questions than it answers re: where the car was headed at the time, so it's not especially helpful I know.

I'll address the phone-ping question first. Our phones ping even when we are not making or receiving calls and texts, because, especially now, any time our phone receives updates for apps, etc. (which is often automatic) the phone makes contact with a tower. And there are so many towers now, that this interaction can be constant, especially with those who are on their phones, and have all the apps, that most millennials have. From all reports, AM and JDR were on their phones a lot.

So if you are reading a call report and the tower contact goes to zero, especially when there had been a lot of activity prior, you can assume that either the phone was deliberately powered off; or the battery died; or the phone is in airplane mode, or the phone is out of reach of a tower. (this assessment might be different if you were looking at the call log of someone who doesn't use their cell a whole lot. and has no apps, doesn't download media, isn't on FB, etc.)

In this case, the reports are varied, but at the very least AM's phone only pinged in the East Coachella Valley (some reports differ and state it was Indio and Coachella) that evening, and then after midnight neither AM or JDR's phone pinged at all. Period. We don't know how close to midnight, these two were still pinging, though. What has been reported is that the last contact either of the two, had by way of their phones, (or at least AM had) was sometime after 8 when AM was in contact with her mother--by text or voice or both--this is unclear. But after midnight on May 10, neither AM or JDR's phones have pinged again.

Regarding a map, it's not that difficult to make your own. Put the following cities into a Google Map: Brawley, Coachella, Indio, Palm Desert & Beaumont--and you can see where each lie in relation to the other:

AM lived in Indio with her parents.

AM worked and went to school in Palm Desert.

JDR lived in Palm Desert--actually, very close to where AM went to school. (Someone on this thread actually found what looks to have been his apartment complex If you comb back, you can find this.)

AM's sister, apparently lives in Coachella. And the initial report was that AM stopped by her sister's home as she was going to meet and pick up JDR somewhere south of Coachella, in the direction of Brawley. He was apparently returning from B. But this has never been publicly confirmed.

And of course AM's SUV was found near the exit for Oak Parkway, on I-10, in Beaumont.

There are people on this forum who know these areas first hand. They may be able to help you out more in terms of specific details there.

Hope that helps.
 
Agreed, although AFAIK the pizza thing (and indeed the entire Brawley trip) remains an unconfirmed spanner in the timeline. I haven't seen on a map exactly where Audrey's sister's place is, relative to Audrey's start point and supposed direction of travel (I have seen exactly where the car was found). Would be helpful to see that approximate route drawn up, or as much if it as we can infer, if anyone has the time/inclination.

Re: phone pings, I'm a little sketchy on specifics - am I right in thinking you only get a 'ping' when your phone is switched on AND trying to send or receive information? In other words, it doesn't ping while off or idle, right?

Happy to be corrected, but if I've understood that right, then the only way a phone ping can only tell you where somebody *wasn't* is by a process of elimination after it tells you where they *were*. No pings coming from a particular location doesn't really say anything on its own.

I did also wonder if the location of the car might suggest a possible altercation with someone merging onto the freeway 100yds back. On-ramps are a common spot for near misses and suchlike. Although that scenario really would ask more questions than it answers re: where the car was headed at the time, so it's not especially helpful I know.

Phones do ping wherever you are, but getting that data via subpoena and warrant is notoriously difficult and even when you do, you get a load of data that may as well be in another language. The most recent time I got phone data for a subject (also missing), it was about 3 months of data that was basically just a data dump. I had to export it into Excel and try to make the best of it. The wireless companies don't give you everything nice and pretty on a map or even lay it out like "this is data, this is a text, this is a phone call." In my situation it was "incoming something, outgoing something" and a code for a tower which we then had to figure out how that carrier assigned numbers to their towers. Oh and all the times were in UTC. So suffice to say, phone records can be immensely helpful if you have a phone record Enigma machine to turn them into something that makes sense.
 
Looking at cell phone forensics.....my word almost a specific detail in it's own.
Software,software,software, while the two were extremely connected to social media etc. the perpetrators are at vulnerable like a cold virus for detection.
https://youtu.be/R8YZyrCTCDA
LE has to be extremely enabled with some detail here....
 
I feel like 3 scenarios..if he went to brawley for a good reason those ppl whoever he was with would of came forward by now, he went for a negative reason so whoever he went with will not come forward or he didn't go at all...

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

There is one more possibility, and that is that JDR got a ride some place with a "Dreamer." This "Dreamer" might be someone who perhaps lives, or knows someone who lives at his complex, and this person is afraid to come forward. They could be innocent of doing anything, yet concerned about contact with police at this time. Even in California there is a lot of fear right now.

However, there's even another option as to how JDR got somewhere that evening (or whenever it was). I looked it up. and the bus stop for JDR is only 15 minutes walk from where he lives. And you can take your bike on the bus. No one has mentioned JDR having a bike. But regardless, there is a bus he could easily get to, that could take him south of where he lived. It's always possible he was simply meeting someone and asked if AM could pick him up on the way back.
 
Looking at cell phone forensics.....my word almost a specific detail in it's own.
Software,software,software, while the two were extremely connected to social media etc. the perpetrators are at vulnerable like a cold virus for detection.
https://youtu.be/R8YZyrCTCDA
LE has to be extremely enabled with some detail here....

I agree. I think LE probably has a lot of information that they won't share. And it may just be a matter of proving certain things, or following all the leads that the data presents to them.

This case will be easiest to solve if the perp was known to one, or both, of the victims. But I can imagine this case will be tricky if the event was random--because then there won't likely be a direct digital trail to the person/s involved. But even so, LE may be able to follow the pings of AM and perhaps JDR as well.

LE has probably narrowed down, by way of pings, where they may believe AM and JDR were last.

I wonder if there is enough cause for them to request a tower dump?
 
I agree. I think LE probably has a lot of information that they won't share. And it may just be a matter of proving certain things, or following all the leads that the data presents to them.

This case will be easiest to solve if the perp was known to one, or both, of the victims. But I can imagine this case will be tricky if the event was random--because then there won't likely be a direct digital trail to the person/s involved. But even so, LE may be able to follow the pings of AM and perhaps JDR as well.

LE has probably narrowed down, by way of pings, where they may believe AM and JDR were last.

I wonder if there is enough cause for them to request a tower dump?

A tower dump would be... I can't even imagine how you would get or sort through that kind of data, much less convince a judge to sign off on it. It would take an army of people to go through it. I wish I could better explain what just one person's looks like but basically just imagine roughly 400 pages of just numbers that represents 86 days of usage and trying to figure out if "6" means minutes or seconds, what the actual time was in your time zone, etc. Oh and you don't get the content of data or text messages.
 

ODC is correct, it would take a multitude of resources to comb through the data. Not to say it couldn't be done but Riverside Sheriff's Office isn't about to do that when no crime has been determined. A judge would also have to sign off on it as well. ODC has first hand accounting of this and I wouldn't doubt his credibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Just a reminder, we don't know where this case stands with the Riverside Sheriff's Homicide Department. There may be a substantial amount of information that has not been released to the public or to anyone, not even family of JDR and AM. We have not heard from LE on this case in quite some time. There might be concrete evidence of foul play at this time--just nothing that will be made public until an arrest is made. I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be.

The most recent article I could find on California regarding warrants and tower dumps is from 2013, so as of 2013 a warrant was not required to get a tower dump. The 6th circuit just ruled in upholding that no search warrant would be required in those jurisdictions.



"Unlike many forms of data seizure, tower dumps can be executed without a warrant. In accordance with a provision of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, law enforcement can, and often does, rely on judge-issued court orders to obtain cell-site data. Such orders don’t need to meet a probable cause requirement and so are based on significantly less evidence than is required for a warrant."

http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/04/police-use-tower-dumps-to-collect-your-c

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...rcuit-cellphone-tracking-csli-warrant/478197/


I think these types of forums are really helpful in keeping a case in the public eye. But there is one other added benefit that I've found--and this is to learn how our criminal justice system actually works.

I'm not sure that either of the above mentioned goals are met if we blindly trust anyone's word for something, without double-checking the accuracy.
 
As of June 2017 when I received my phone data after I went before a judge and asked for a warrant on a missing person who had already been missing for a year, where a warrant was required, we also asked for a tower dump and we got laughed out of the courtroom. It took us the entire year to get the data for one phone line AFTER the warrant was issued. If you look at the McStay case, AT&T has yet to comply with the subpoena for phone records. I wish everything was as easy as news articles and legal opinions. My job would be 1,000 times easier. Unfortunately, it isn't.
 
AT&T did comply on the McStay case. 7/20/2016 the records were received by James McGee. It was on the Docket, but then altered later, it appears. (probably because this was supposed to be a sealed subpoena) But I have a copy of the original Docket entry.

In the AM and JDR missing person's case and the McStay missing person's case, ping data for the victims was gotten pretty quickly. Ping data was had for AM, within a few weeks if not sooner, of her disappearance. (JDR's records are less certain.) On the McStay case, ping data for JM and SM were acquired within a week of the warrants being executed.
 
AT&T did comply on the McStay case. 7/20/2016 the records were received by James McGee. It was on the Docket, but then altered later, it appears. (probably because this was supposed to be a sealed subpoena) But I have a copy of the original Docket entry.

In the AM and JDR missing person's case and the McStay missing person's case, ping data for the victims was gotten pretty quickly. Ping data was had for AM, within a few weeks if not sooner, of her disappearance. (JDR's records are less certain.) On the McStay case, ping data for JM and SM were acquired within a week of the warrants being executed.

I would agree that the turnaround should not be THAT long or difficult in obtaining. Sure, LE can't just walk into a wireless store, flash their badge and expect to have the data presented (you'd be surprised at how many think that's all that's required). Warrants etc are needed and is all handled at a higher level.
I can't personally speak for tower data turnaround but phone records including text records (conversations) are very easy to pull and easy to read, specifically speaking for AT&T.
 
I'm wondering if there were any forensic finds in the tires of the SUV, rocks dirt, pebbles, wheel wells, anything that may give a clue, dirt marks, no dirt etc.... maybe it went through a car wash?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
71
Guests online
4,148
Total visitors
4,219

Forum statistics

Threads
592,548
Messages
17,970,859
Members
228,807
Latest member
Buffalosleuther
Back
Top