CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 3

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Just some additional thoughts:

Now if I recall some of the posts on these threads correctly, Bob was quite proud of grandson. They lived close by and made meals for Bob...and presumably spent time together when possible. Bob has great grandchildren, so I will make a leap and figure that grandson might have children.

I wonder if he met Fontelle as well and welcomed her? I wonder if he was happy for Bob or how he viewed the drama surrounding his grandmother's estate? I hope he has spoken to police as well.
 
Cubby said:
Only those closest to Bob know the intricate financial records.
We know a PI is on the case.
Do we know if a forensic accountant was ever contacted as suggested to go over Bobs financials with a fine tooth comb? His daughters mentioned he paid most everything by check... so I am sure at min checking records could indicate where Bobs money went.

jmo
Click to expand...

On Jan 9, 2010, daughter J posted on another forum that they hired a P.I. who was “digging.”
http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/166/53721?page=9

We know the P.I. hired by the daughters spoke to Paul for a couple of hours one time.

On Aug 8, 2010, daughter R posted on another forum that their P.I. was retained to respectfully conduct a thorough investigation in total cooperation with the police, with only general milestones being reported back to them.

On Aug 16, daughter PB posted on another forum that they did hire a P.I. and they have been working closely with the PPD.

It’s been at least 8 months since the P.I. was hired by the daughters. Not sure what the P.I.’s fees were, but from what I’ve ready, P.I.‘s can charge a pretty substantial daily rate. Just wondering if the P.I. is really still actively working on Bob’s case, or if they finished their work months ago and turned over their findings to the daughters at that time.
 
Cubby said:
Then the whole weird thing of calling for a well being check and NOT ( or no mention of....) asking grandson to go check on grandpa is kind of odd........ I mean if the scary barber lady was lurking in the darkness why not stick around or at least contact grandson to say, you know your grandpa isn't home..... first? it is all very strange.


I dunno, it is pretty clear to me.....


JMO
Click to expand...

~SNIPPED~

Daughter P posted twice on a forum last year that the SIL thought he saw the hairdresser "lurking" in the neighborhood before Mr. Harrod went missing. By posting this she was insinuating the hairdresser had something to do with Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

On Aug 11, 2009, P posted on IS forum that “There was a report that my BIL saw the type of car that the POI drives go by my Dad's house very slowly and then pull over on the wrong side of the street.”

On Aug 12, 2009, P posted on IS “Heard from BIL that a car matching the description of hers was seen earlier that morning.”

So we are to believe that Mr. Harrod vanished in a small window of about 30 minutes when he is expecting the SIL and housekeeper at his house, and nobody looked or checked to see where he could be. SIL leaves and drives all the way home without first checking with the neighbors or stopping by the hairdresser's shop, since he supposedly saw her car earlier.

They must have known how to get in touch with the hairdresser. Did they call her and ask, "have you seen dad, J thought he saw your car near the house earlier today?"

I wonder when the daughters reported the hairdresser for a second time to Social Services. We know SS showed up on Wed. the 29th. Was the report filed Monday?

Doesn't make sense.
 
You made a good point Angelo regarding the second SS filing-when was that I wonder?
 
'Bobs neighbor said he had seen the hairdressers son at Bobs house before..SO, he knew where he lived. Bob had the hairdressers son's cell phone..per neighbor. If hairdressers son knew his mother was getting cut off financially, she could have been really upset, sent him over to get Bob to talk to him before Fontelle arrived and no one would have ever known. Hairdresser could have known exactly the opportune time to have Bob picked up (within that 20 minute time period)! '

Above copied from previous thread from Dolly..

Dolly.. the hairdresser would not have known the exact opportune time to grab Bob. Remember, the trip to Home Depot was a spur of the moment decision, according to all reports. As such, noone would have known it. The assumption would have to be that the SIL would be there all day. And if the housekeeper was called that morning to come over, then we can assume that this was outside of her regular times that she comes, unless her coming was ALWAYS on-call.. Either way, noone would have known that this call would take place. So, there is no way to know it is an opportune time. This was a crime of convenience, I think.. it happened at just the right time.. I don't think it was planned out, UNLESS it was planned out by the SIL/Daughters.. which I am not too keen on pointing the finger at yet..

@CAExile - Do you know, about how long did his walks take? The reason I ask is that there is a possibility that he, indeed, DID take a walk before the housekeeper came over, if he thought he could finish before she got there. If that is the case, it increases the chances of a more random attack.

@Everyone else - I see everyone almost taking sides between Fontelle and the daughters.. I can't do that, and in a humorous way, here is why: I have watched Dateline TOO many times when they have their real life court cases on tv.. and I am ALWAYS convinced of the person's guilt after the first half of the show.. and then, after the second half, I am very often left thinking 'Well.. there's reasonable doubt right there...'... so, I realize, because of that dumb show, that you can never really take a side without knowing ALL of the facts.. which we don't...

As for the PPD not 'luminoling' the house.. how do we know that didn't happen? Unless Exile has said something, or the police have said something, I don't think we really know what they have or haven't done. PERSONALLY, I think it is better that there aren't organized public searches. This USUALLY means that the police have information pointing to particular areas and as such, they prefer to search and find clues as opposed to having the public trounce all over a crime scene. We also have no idea that they haven't conducted searches.. in fact, it is very likely that they have, but have not made them all public yet. As Exile said, the police keep a LOT of info from the public, and sometimes, mislead the public on purpose. It's all part of how investigations work. The only thing we have to go by are media reports and public documents. Unfortunately, I have been privy to information that media reported incorrectly more times than not.. and as such, media information while usually close to accurate, is VERY often not as accurate as one would like...
 
Thanks for your perspective, Basic...I agree that none of us have any idea what LE has done and has for evidence. Other than they have ruled out a stranger abduction. Which sort of rules out the random attack theory I would think, but I dont know for sure....

I am thrown by the white hat as an article of clothing associated with Bob, but maybe he liked to cover his head. I am thrown by the phone call around noon regarding the overheard Home Depot comment of SIL, but the trip being delayed until after 2:30PM.

It is my personal belief that the time line changed once SIL produced the Home Depot receipt. It is my personal belief that LE was fed the cold feet theory by someone, innocently or intentionally.

I cannot make heads or tales out of the departure of the SIL at 6PM with no sight of Bob and then the subsequent well being checks being done without family actually going over to the home and looking themselves. And I am even more confused by the need to have Fontelle file the missing person's report. That is the most bizarre aspect of this entire case to me. Hands down.

I wonder when grandson was told his GF was missing? Before or after Fontelle? Was he out of town? Was his family?? I wonder who had keys to Bob's home???
 
Cubby said:


The three daughters told police initially they suspected Bob Harrod's barber – a woman who attended their mother's funeral in 2008 – of some connection with the disappearance. Police have cleared the barber and her husband of any connection with the case.



Since this media report of October 2009, there has been no additional information from Law Enforcement or main stream media to indicate LE has changed their position clearing the barber and her husband of having any connection to this case. Unless and until NEW information indicates the barber and her husband are no longer cleared as being involved in Bobs disappearance accusations against them are unsupported rumor and a violation of TOS.
Click to expand...


I have a question about this:

Does this mean that they can no longer be discussed as possible suspects here? If so, then that, in my mind, would completely stop any investigation cold. If we aren't allowed to consider them as possibilities, then what good is the group based theory-crafting? Besides.. the press get it wrong... a lot. For all we know, there SHOULD be an "at this time" added to the end of the sentence.

I understand you are just 'doing your job' Cubby.. but if we can't discuss the hairdresser or her husband or son any longer, then I will have to bow out. My goal is to explore ALL possibilities, not just the possibilities that WS allows me to discuss.
 
Cubby said:
Since no one saw Mr. Harrod leave the house how is it known he left with white hat? Was there an inventory done of his hats and one is known to be missing?

Also, was there ever an inventory and verification of the number of pairs of eye glasses Bob owned? One of Bobs daughters posted at IS that they had found 3 pairs of glasses but discovered a photo which looked like a recently purchased/newer pair. I'm interpreting this to mean the daughters knew of 3 pairs, found three and thought Bob left without his glasses but realized via a recent photo Bob had a 4th pair they were not previously aware of......

In Session Message Boards - View Single Post - Bob Harrod, 81, the newlywed missing 7/2009

Wouldn't there be a way to determine how many pairs of glasses Bob had through his
opthamologist or eye doctor? Clearly there has to be some record somewhere of filled eyeglass prescriptions. Which could at least confirm whether or not Bob actually left with or without his glasses.
Click to expand...

I think that all you really need to do is compare the glasses in the various videos to the glasses that were left on the table. If they are the same, then it is reasonable to think that he didn't take glasses with him, UNLESS he had a pair of prescription sunglasses, which he could have taken with him.

Regardless of the number of pairs of glasses someone has, everyone with glasses will tell you that the older pairs are simply backups if the 'good' pair break and need repaired... most often, the current pair are the only pair at the proper strength to correct vision properly, and older pairs are previous prescriptions that are no longer completely valid. So, if the glasses on the table match any of the recent videos, and the videos show the same glasses throughout, then I am pretty sure that he left without glasses. Seems reasonalbe to think that.
 
Basic said:
'Bobs neighbor said he had seen the hairdressers son at Bobs house before..SO, he knew where he lived. Bob had the hairdressers son's cell phone..per neighbor. If hairdressers son knew his mother was getting cut off financially, she could have been really upset, sent him over to get Bob to talk to him before Fontelle arrived and no one would have ever known. Hairdresser could have known exactly the opportune time to have Bob picked up (within that 20 minute time period)! '

Above copied from previous thread from Dolly..

Dolly.. the hairdresser would not have known the exact opportune time to grab Bob. Remember, the trip to Home Depot was a spur of the moment decision, according to all reports. As such, noone would have known it. The assumption would have to be that the SIL would be there all day. And if the housekeeper was called that morning to come over, then we can assume that this was outside of her regular times that she comes, unless her coming was ALWAYS on-call.. Either way, noone would have known that this call would take place. So, there is no way to know it is an opportune time. This was a crime of convenience, I think.. it happened at just the right time.. I don't think it was planned out, UNLESS it was planned out by the SIL/Daughters.. which I am not too keen on pointing the finger at yet..

@CAExile - Do you know, about how long did his walks take? The reason I ask is that there is a possibility that he, indeed, DID take a walk before the housekeeper came over, if he thought he could finish before she got there. If that is the case, it increases the chances of a more random attack.

@Everyone else - I see everyone almost taking sides between Fontelle and the daughters.. I can't do that, and in a humorous way, here is why: I have watched Dateline TOO many times when they have their real life court cases on tv.. and I am ALWAYS convinced of the person's guilt after the first half of the show.. and then, after the second half, I am very often left thinking 'Well.. there's reasonable doubt right there...'... so, I realize, because of that dumb show, that you can never really take a side without knowing ALL of the facts.. which we don't...

As for the PPD not 'luminoling' the house.. how do we know that didn't happen? Unless Exile has said something, or the police have said something, I don't think we really know what they have or haven't done. PERSONALLY, I think it is better that there aren't organized public searches. This USUALLY means that the police have information pointing to particular areas and as such, they prefer to search and find clues as opposed to having the public trounce all over a crime scene. We also have no idea that they haven't conducted searches.. in fact, it is very likely that they have, but have not made them all public yet. As Exile said, the police keep a LOT of info from the public, and sometimes, mislead the public on purpose. It's all part of how investigations work. The only thing we have to go by are media reports and public documents. Unfortunately, I have been privy to information that media reported incorrectly more times than not.. and as such, media information while usually close to accurate, is VERY often not as accurate as one would like...
Click to expand...

Just guessing, it probably took him between 20 to 30 min. He walked very slow.

As far as the hat goes. Bob had mostly white hats. I am not sure if anyone knows exactly how many he had. So, they may not know if one is missing or not. They were piled up on a shelf next to the door. He almost never left the house without a hat since he was balding and it was the middle of the afternoon on a July day. I do not know if he was wearing a hat or not. But, the odds are most likely he was.

Same goes for the glasses. He wore them all the time. I do not know how many pairs he had.
 
Cubby said:
Since no one saw Mr. Harrod leave the house how is it known he left with white hat? Was there an inventory done of his hats and one is known to be missing?
Click to expand...

<snipped>

WHO said Mr. Harrod was last seen with a hat on? If he was wearing a hat he was about to leave the house. Right?? This doesnt make sense
to me!
 
Cubby said:
I do too, but the continued discussion on where Fontell chooses to reside and the money or who is paying the home owners association or insurance is a CIVIL issue.

Civil cases, if they have a place at WS, belong in the PL or JR.

What it boils down to imo, is who is pushing WHO to be a victim or survivor. Equal is equal, and give me a good reason why a second wife does not have the same equality as her step children and grandchildren to find out what happened to one missing person?

I see a bunch of bullies trying to bulldoze Fontelle out of her spousal rights. This is as nutty as a child custody or visitation case.... and somehow that whole 'child custody -visitation- mentality has morphed into distraction distraction distraction on finding out the facts surrounding Bobs disappearance. The money is the obvious..... tunnel vision, can we please move on from which parent deserves custody or in this case who deserves the money? If everyone would like to discuss WHO deserves the money, I will start a seperate JR or PL thread.... where you can all debate the civil process. The entire first thread was beating a dead horse on who deserves the money. I don't want to fight over one red cent!! Bob did not take any money where he is right now, so let's leave the red cent's where they belong....

Who owes Bob money.
Who wants to hide/ or who has secured and non secured loans Bob gave out.
Who is dependent on Bobs money.
How many homes is Bob holding the mortgage on and at what percent?
How many of them are current?

Being transluscent is going to be the KEY to the money trail.

Chantilly Lace - Big Bopper
I ain't got NO money honey....
and who needed Bobs money honey.....

(I love the Big Bopper ;))

jmo
Click to expand...

In all due respect I don't think we need to start all this up in the Jury thread or The parking Lot. This is a missing person case that has turned into an ugly trash fest ABOUT money. How can we honestly discuss court docs and probate trusts if we don't have access to that information. We don't know what Fontelle's attorney wants "out there". We don't know what the daughters attorneys is allowed to discuss. I'm sure they have all gone before a judge and we don't know if a judge has told them not to discuss anything. Aren't we going thru enough here on this thread without opening a can of worms in the JR or PL?
 
The hairdresser and her husband have been cleared. They have solid alibis, and I am willing to bet, they both passed polygraphs with flying colors.
 
Police have ruled out foul play at the hands of a stranger. They have cleared the hairdresser and her husband.
 
CA Exile said:
Just guessing, it probably took him between 20 to 30 min. He walked very slow.

As far as the hat goes. Bob had mostly white hats. I am not sure if anyone knows exactly how many he had. So, they may not know if one is missing or not. They were piled up on a shelf next to the door. He almost never left the house without a hat since he was balding and it was the middle of the afternoon on a July day. I do not know if he was wearing a hat or not. But, the odds are most likely he was.

Same goes for the glasses. He wore them all the time. I do not know how many pairs he had.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can see the hats in this video.

http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/787b9...fter-Six-Decades-Apart-Jaime-Chambers-reports
 
So, if the walk were to take him 20-30 minutes, who's to say that he didn't choose to take a walk and was abducted in the course of doing so? *IF* he has prescription sunglasses, I could see this being plausible. If he doesn't, then it doesn't fit into any pattern of making sense.


The police rule out foul play simply because there isn't any evidence of it.. however, if you read the newspaper articles, and assuming they are accurate, they also have no evidence of a crime taking place at all, thus, it is truly impossible to rule out a stranger abduction. It would be a HUGE coincidence(considering the family argument, new marriage, etc).. but larger coincidences have happened before...

Is it likely? Probably not.. but can it be completely ruled out? If you don't have evidence to prove a crime happened, how can you rule out the possibility of this scenario?
 
Basic said:
So, if the walk were to take him 20-30 minutes, who's to say that he didn't choose to take a walk and was abducted in the course of doing so? *IF* he has prescription sunglasses, I could see this being plausible. If he doesn't, then it doesn't fit into any pattern of making sense.


The police rule out foul play simply because there isn't any evidence of it.. however, if you read the newspaper articles, and assuming they are accurate, they also have no evidence of a crime taking place at all, thus, it is truly impossible to rule out a stranger abduction. It would be a HUGE coincidence(considering the family argument, new marriage, etc).. but larger coincidences have happened before...

Is it likely? Probably not.. but can it be completely ruled out? If you don't have evidence to prove a crime happened, how can you rule out the possibility of this scenario?
Click to expand...

I also think by the time LE began to realize Mr. Harrod was not a runaway groom they lost vaulable time and possible evidence. That is what happens in so many missing person cases. LE assumes, and sometimes wrongly.

We know LE talked to some of the neighbors but did they actually walk the road and look for clues, we don't know.

I just can't imagine why someone would abduct an eighty-one-year-old man off the street. I can see a child or a woman, that happens all the time.

I wonder if LE has checked computers, cell phones, cell phone pings, and any other means they have to rule people in or out.
 
Basic, two things if you will indulge me:

Why would the hairdresser be the most natural suspect? In a month of Sundays, I would not assume that a service person was more likely to disappear someone as opposed to a family member....I am a huge fan of the simplest answer, although I realize that this is not always the truth in every case of course. I cannot square her as having a single motivation for kidnapping or harming someone who may have been helping her.

Secondly, if law enforcement states they have cleared someone as being a suspect we should all be relieved that there is one more person off the table when trying to consider who might be responsible for a disappearance. Beyond that, LE's belief is that there is no stranger involvement in this case. They have access to all of the records-I dont. So yup, I am willing to lean towards that being the truth.

I had a question as to whether or not it was bad reporting on the part of the media that the barber/hairdresser has been cleared-I feel confident that they reported the information accurately now.

In any case, we have to have a framework for discussion here at WS-if someone is cleared as being a suspect why continue to throw things at the wall regarding their involvement? Happy day that the list is smaller.

So then, who has not been cleared?
 
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