CA - Body of local doctor found in chimney flue

[roller26]

Amsterdam.
The home was checked several times, first by her assistant and then by police who did not find her in the chimney. Then he left for the trip to Europe (Amsterdam) which they originally planned to go on together, apparently.
"Police searched the home Friday evening, but also did not find her body or smell any bad odors, DeGeare said."
http://www.bakersfield.com/news/local/x49332680/Police-Alcohol-may-be-factor-in-doctors-death

Thank you! Explains a lot. How tragic.

 

[porkchop]

Not necessarily, look how long it took to find her after she died. He might have thought it a good hiding place. Do we really know the details of their relationship? It just seems too convienient to blame it on her being a stalker, doesn't seem likely for a college educated doctor...:snooty:

This what most modern chimney's look like.

As you can see there is no way to shove somebody up the chimney, the damper is much to small of an opening to get somebody in. Also just because she is a educated doctor doesn't mean she isn't a stalker and isn't capable of doing somethin crazy like this. Look at Lisa Novack. She was a well educated astronaut. Astronauts are particularly picked for that field for their ability to remain calm and to keep themselves grounded in a variety of situations, and she went off the reservation. Stalking and crazy behavior towards a love interest isn't just reserved for the poor uneducated.

 

[Litespeed]

Stalker my :twocents:. I have to agree, she was the only one who could have put her into that position. With the effort she went through to get into his house, good thing he got out of there ASAP. It is a sad event but just being a Doctor and having an educated does not stop bizarre or ensure rational behavior. Just look at those Doctors following “orders” in WWII.

 

[tapu]

My gut impressions are that the boyfriend hid her body in the chimney, stuffed her up there and tried to flee to Europe. Much like Annie Le's body was found stuffed into a wall.

I bet your thinking impressions say something else.

 

[Quiche]

What a horrible way to go... such self-inflicted torture and turmoil, it's hard to comprehend. I hope she found peace.

 

[LadyL]

ok, why would dude slip out unnoticed rather than confront her (or call the cops) & tell her to stop trying to break into his house

seriously, who would leave your house unattended for the night, knowing that an obsessed stalker is trying to break in & is likely upset enough to damage your belongings or set the house on fire or something else even more outrageous than attempting to break in while you're there (without calling the police to alert them to the possible crime taking place!)?

I read this story yesterday & I've been thinking that the bizarre way she died has clouded some other details, namely that it's awfully convenient that this guy left while she was breaking in and left town the next day while she was dead in his chimney ... just some things that make me go hmmm ...

 

[kgeaux]

I bet your thinking impressions say something else.

You are so funny!!

 

[kgeaux]

ok, why would dude slip out unnoticed rather than confront her (or call the cops) & tell her to stop trying to break into his house

seriously, who would leave your house unattended for the night, knowing that an obsessed stalker is trying to break in & is likely upset enough to damage your belongings or set the house on fire or something else even more outrageous than attempting to break in while you're there (without calling the police to alert them to the possible crime taking place!)?

I read this story yesterday & I've been thinking that the bizarre way she died has clouded some other details, namely that it's awfully convenient that this guy left while she was breaking in and left town the next day while she was dead in his chimney ... just some things that make me go hmmm ...

He may not have wanted to damage her reputation by reporting her as trying to break in because that would result in legal charges against her. Maybe he knew she was obsessed, but didn't have any reason to believe she'd do something outrageous like try to burn his house down---or climb down the chimney.

Bottom line for me is the fact that the coroner says she died of compression asphyxiation. Since the only way to get into a chimney is by going down, surely she put herself in there.

I must say I am very interested in this discussion, because if the situation was reversed, if a woman fled her home while a man was trying to get in and his body was found in a chimney a week later, I really don't think anyone would be suspicious of the woman at all!

 

[Paintr]

I have no doubt his story as told to LE is true. EXCEPT, I do wonder if he left when she was still seeking a way in so she couldn't confront him or if he left when she was already stuck in the chimmney so she couldn't confront him. Was his trip pre planned? I admit I have no idea when he left. Just wondering:waitasec:.

 

[jjenny]

He may not have wanted to damage her reputation by reporting her as trying to break in because that would result in legal charges against her. Maybe he knew she was obsessed, but didn't have any reason to believe she'd do something outrageous like try to burn his house down---or climb down the chimney.

Bottom line for me is the fact that the coroner says she died of compression asphyxiation. Since the only way to get into a chimney is by going down, surely she put herself in there.

I must say I am very interested in this discussion, because if the situation was reversed, if a woman fled her home while a man was trying to get in and his body was found in a chimney a week later, I really don't think anyone would be suspicious of the woman at all!

I think you are right on the money. If the woman left as the man was trying to get in, and then he was found dead in the chimney, that'd get a different reaction.

 

[jjenny]

I have no doubt his story as told to LE is true. EXCEPT, I do wonder if he left when she was still seeking a way in so she couldn't confront him or if he left when she was already stuck in the chimmney so she couldn't confront him. Was his trip pre planned? I admit I have no idea when he left. Just wondering:waitasec:.

The trip was pre-planned, and apparently they were supposed to go on it together.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Autopsy Results For Bakersfield Doctor Found In Chimney Flue

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. -- The doctor who was found in a chimney flue died as a result of mechanical asphyxia and the manner of death is an accident, according to the Kern County Coroner's Office.

Snipped

Kotarac first tried to get into the house with a shovel, then climbed a ladder to the roof last Wednesday night, removed the chimney cap and slid feet first down the flue, DeGeare said.

While she was trying to break in, the man she was pursuing escaped unnoticed from another exit "to avoid a confrontation," authorities said.

Snipped

Kotarac died as a result of mechanical asphyxia and the manner of death was an accident, according to the Kern County Coroner's Office.

Ray Pruitt, PIO with the Kern County Sheriff's Department, said that this means her chest compressed to the point that she was no longer able to breathe.

http://www.turnto23.com/news/24832021/detail.html

Your bolded part below the 'snipped' says that her chest was compressed to the point where she was no longer able to breathe. Well, her hips had to go down first. Seems the bottom part of anyones body would be the largest. The outside opening to the air at the top of the chimney would have been above her head, so there was air from the opening.

In one of the articles, IIRC, it was stated that the 'housesitter' said she came in to check the fish tank, noticed a foul odor, and saw 'fluids' in the fireplace. She then supposedly got a flashlight (good neighbor to know where the flashlight was kept), and looked up the chimney. My question is if the damper blocked the body, then how did that housesitting neighbor see the body in the chimney?

I saw the diagram you have of a chimney, Joe Friday, but I cannot understand how this housesitter saw the body with a flashlight. I have always had a fireplace, so I am familiar with the flue part because I close it every summer. I stilll think there is just something not quite right here. I suppose I am delusional, because I do see that the coroner did rule it an accident and LE stated her chest compressed to the point she was no longer able to breathe. I am just not yet buying it even tho the cause of death has been ruled on.

JMO

 

[Paintr]

I think you are right on the money. If the woman left as the man was trying to get in, and then he was found dead in the chimney, that'd get a different reaction.

Maybe I am just an overly suspicious person, but I would be asking the same question if the woman left and the man was stuck in her chimney dead. Just WHEN did you leave, Honey child? Before or after he got stuck?

I think the Doc entered the chimney under her own power. I just want to know when. Before or after he headed for the hills.

 

[noonie]

How Crazy? It just makes you wonder? Some pro's have No common sense!

 

[jjenny]

Your bolded part below the 'snipped' says that her chest was compressed to the point where she was no longer able to breathe. Well, her hips had to go down first. Seems the bottom part of anyones body would be the largest. The outside opening to the air at the top of the chimney would have been above her head, so there was air from the opening.

In one of the articles, IIRC, it was stated that the 'housesitter' said she came in to check the fish tank, noticed a foul odor, and saw 'fluids' in the fireplace. She then supposedly got a flashlight (good neighbor to know where the flashlight was kept), and looked up the chimney. My question is if the damper blocked the body, then how did that housesitting neighbor see the body in the chimney?

I saw the diagram you have of a chimney, Joe Friday, but I cannot understand how this housesitter saw the body with a flashlight. I have always had a fireplace, so I am familiar with the flue part because I close it every summer. I stilll think there is just something not quite right here. I suppose I am delusional, because I do see that the coroner did rule it an accident and LE stated her chest compressed to the point she was no longer able to breathe. I am just not yet buying it even tho the cause of death has been ruled on.

JMO

Right now I have three flashlights out in the open in case of an emergency. Because if the light goes out I need to find my flashlight easily.
So really just because housekeeper found a flashlight does not make this a suspicious case.

 

[Joe Friday]

Your bolded part below the 'snipped' says that her chest was compressed to the point where she was no longer able to breathe. Well, her hips had to go down first. Seems the bottom part of anyones body would be the largest. The outside opening to the air at the top of the chimney would have been above her head, so there was air from the opening.

In one of the articles, IIRC, it was stated that the 'housesitter' said she came in to check the fish tank, noticed a foul odor, and saw 'fluids' in the fireplace. She then supposedly got a flashlight (good neighbor to know where the flashlight was kept), and looked up the chimney. My question is if the damper blocked the body, then how did that housesitting neighbor see the body in the chimney?

I saw the diagram you have of a chimney, Joe Friday, but I cannot understand how this housesitter saw the body with a flashlight. I have always had a fireplace, so I am familiar with the flue part because I close it every summer. I stilll think there is just something not quite right here. I suppose I am delusional, because I do see that the coroner did rule it an accident and LE stated her chest compressed to the point she was no longer able to breathe. I am just not yet buying it even tho the cause of death has been ruled on.

JMO

I don't think there was a question of if there was oxygen inside the chimney flue if that is what your referring to when you say " The outside opening to the air at the top of the chimney would have been above her head, so there was air from the opening." Also if she had died from lack of oxygen present in the air around her the cause of death would have been environmental asphyxia not mechanical.

There is always a upward draft inside of a chimney even when there is no fire that would have continually supply oxygen to her. Unless her body was blocking the flue so tightly that it completely blocked off any flow of air. If the damper was closed tight at the time of her death then the draft would have been reduced, but I don't think she died from lack of oxygen present in the air even if the damper was closed. The autopsy would have also shown if she died from the lack of oxygen vs. not being able to expand her chest in order to take a breath too.

The diagram of the chimney is not mine, it was posted by porkchop.

In this video posted on Youtube it states that the body was found "just two feet above the fireplace opening". Which means she most likely got stuck inside the flue at some point before reaching the damper. With out a diagram of the exact construction of this chimney we will never know. But LE and or the ME I'm sure took plenty of pictures when the chimney was dismantled to show the position her body was found in and where in the flue she was in relation to the damper. It would be interesting to know if the flue tapered to a narrowing towards the bottom.


If the flue was closed for the summer the flue could have been opened by the women and her son when they inspected the flue with the flashlight and then seen the her body stuck up in the flue. You say you have a fireplace. The easiest way to look up a flue is to take a mirror and angle it in such a way to look up the chimney flue. Open your damper when you do this and with the use of a good flashlight you should have no problem seeing all the way up inside the flue.

In the video it is also stated that the man WB stayed at the house Thursday night before leaving for Europe. I take it he left for Europe on Friday. So yes he did stay there when she was most likely dead in the chimney. If he knew she was in there is another story. The draft from the chimney would have caused the odor to be removed to the outside much as smoke is directed up the chimney when the fireplace is in use.

It is also stated in the video by one neighbor that some neighbors down the street thought they heard someone yelling "quietly" for help, but they thought that was some kids playing in a nearby pool. I wonder why they never investigated? If I heard someone yelling for help I would have taken a closer look. What if it would have been some kids in the pool drowning? Regardless they maybe could have saved a life.

JMO


[video=youtube;-t_77qXYajs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t_77qXYajs[/video]

 

[cluciano63]

Even if I thought I heard someone yelling, I don't think it would ever occur to me that it was coming from a chimney. How sad, though, if true.

I do believe this was a horrible accident. As stated above, if the sexes were reversed I doubt there would even be any suspicion, instead we would be applauding the woman for getting the heck out of the house and fleeing...

 

[crystalgenie]

Women can be stalkers just like men. Women can assault their spouses or significant others just like men. Domestic violence crosses every socio-economic group.

My ex-husband was a Harvard educated attorney who beat the **** out of me.

I have had a friend, at one point in my life, that stalked her ex-boyfriend. She would drive by his home and sit down the street from it. She verbally assaulted any female that went around him. He never once hit her and tried everything to avoid confrontation with her. She finally after 5 years left him alone.

We tried to talk to her but she couldn't be reasoned with. She was/is beautiful and college educated and a pediatrician.

The police do not think the boy-friend had anything to do with her demise and neither do I.


U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
National Institute of Justice

Extent, Nature, and
Consequences of Intimate
Partner Violence
Findings From the National
Violence Against Women Survey

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181867.pdf

 

[hallowedbe]

She was my doctor for ten years until a year ago. I just finished writing a long post that poofed into the air. I tried to find it but gave up. Its title was Terribly Sad. If anyone locates it, please post it.

All of Kern Country is abuzz with this shocking story. All I can think of is that she must have been severely impaired to make that fateful decision....not to mention anger and rage. There is a big story here - not a murder - but the destruction of a promising, popular doctor's life by the man she had been with most of her life. She graduated with honors in medicine from UCLA and was teaching at UCLA one night a week.

Her office workers told me long ago that they had lived together for years. I didn't know his name until now, but I knew he was a petroleum engineer.

 

[Joe Friday]

She was my doctor for ten years until a year ago. I just finished writing a long post that poofed into the air. I tried to find it but gave up. Its title was Terribly Sad. If anyone locates it, please post it.

All of Kern Country is abuzz with this shocking story. All I can think of is that she must have been severely impaired to make that fateful decision....not to mention anger and rage. There is a big story here - not a murder - but the destruction of a promising, popular doctor's life by the man she had been with most of her life. She graduated with honors in medicine from UCLA and was teaching at UCLA one night a week.

Her office workers told me long ago that they had lived together for years. I didn't know his name until now, but I knew he was a petroleum engineer.

BBM

Care to elaborate on why this man she was with for most of her life was the reason for her destruction? The way you have it worded it seem to suggest that he is the one that drove her to this.