CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Quiet Time]

Their father's sisters, their mother's sister and brother, and most of their cousins.

That's a lot of people to have to speak up for you..

 

[Noirdame79]

That's a lot of people to have to speak up for you..

Only Kitty's surviving brother speaks out against Lyle and Erik. The rest support them. Their grandmother Maria Menendez also stood by them until the day she died.

 

[iluvmua]

Only Kitty's surviving brother speaks out against Lyle and Erik. The rest support them. Their grandmother Maria Menendez also stood by them until the day she died.

That says a lot

 

[Recidivist]

Free the boys!

 

[Noirdame79]

For years, the myth that the abuse was fabricated and that the brothers were acting on the stand has persisted because the prosecution (and certain people who were affiliated with the prosecution) have continually spread misinformation and outright lies that the abuse was concocted by the Menendez brothers, their defense attorneys, etc. Not only were all of these people (Pamela Bozanich, the late David Conn, Carol Najera, the late Les Zoeller, and the late Dominick Dunne) aware that there was evidence of abuse presented at the first trial, but they also knew that there is no evidence that the abuse was fabricated. They also tended to promote the "they did it for the money" theory when it was never proven in either trial. By far, the most vocal is Pamela Bozanich, one of the prosecutors in the first trial, who has made a point of appearing in many documentaries about the case so she can continue to promote misinformation. As recently as February 2023, she was still claiming that there was no sexual abuse (although she has no problem admitting that there were other types of abuse going on). Notice that she was conspicuously absent from the 48 Hours segment, that was not a coincidence in my opinion, because then she would have been confronted with what she has said during past interviews (as well as in the first trial) as well as with Roy Rosello's accusations against Jose Menendez. She also identifies with Kitty Menendez far too much and even admitted at one point that she took a crime scene photo of her from evidence and keeps it as a memento.

 

[Noirdame79]

Roy Rosello (bottom right) with other Menudo members, group owner Edgardo Diaz, and Jose Menendez, circa 1984. The boy standing next to Diaz is his cousin, Ricky Melendez, who left the group shortly after this photo was taken and was replaced by Ricky Martin.



Kitty Menendez and her brother Milton Andersen. Along with his brother Brian, he is the only family member who didn't support Lyle and Erik. Milton testified for the prosecution in the second trial.

Lyle and his cousin Brian Alan Andersen, who testified for the defense in both trials



Erik and one of his high school girlfriends, Kirsten Smith, who testified for the defense in the second trial



Erik and his cousin, Karen Vandermolen. This photo was taken at the Beverly Hills house a few weeks before the killings. Karen later stated that she felt Erik wanted to tell her something, but they were never alone together.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I'm glad all of this information has come to light. Back when this all happened, the public assumed the brothers were spoiled and evil. The truth was more complicated than that.

"If you see something, say something" is the main credo to prevent child abuse.

 

[Noirdame79]

I'm glad all of this information has come to light. Back when this all happened, the public assumed the brothers were spoiled and evil. The truth was more complicated than that.

"If you see something, say something" is the main credo to prevent child abuse.

I agree. Looking back to the start of this thread and going through it, you can actually see how things have changed. A big problem was that Jose Menendez was wealthy and powerful; people were afraid of him, even his family members. It's interesting that the family members who support Lyle and Erik (at this point, there's only one that doesn't) have stated that they forgive the brothers for killing their parents, but they don't forgive the parents for abusing their children. That says so much.

 

[Noirdame79]

Honor Thy Father And Mother: The True Story Of The Menendez Murders (1994) is a television movie that aired on the Fox network in April 1994 starring James Farentino, Jill Clayburgh, Billy Warlock, and David Beron. It was based on the book Blood Brothers by Ron Soble and John Johnson, reporters from the L.A. Times who covered the first trial. While in the book, the writers tried to present both sides, it is prosecution-biased. In terms of the movie, unlike Menendez: A Killing In Beverly Hills, this presentation does show one flashback that hints of sexual abuse about to happen, but this is undermined by the fact that the film, when depicting the trial, does not portray any of the corroborative defense testimony or witnesses, and emphasizes the prosecution witnesses (Dr. Oziel, Craig Cignarelli, Jamie Piscarsik, etc) and treats them as credible, but leaves out the fact that they were all discredited during cross-examination. As Jose and Kitty, Farentino and Clayburgh only appear in flashbacks. While they didn't have much screen time, they both did a decent job; Clayburgh, in particular, did a good job capturing Kitty as the bitter, uncaring alcoholic who cared more about keeping her philandering and cruel husband than protecting her children. Like the later Law & Order miniseries, there are also flashbacks as to what led up to the killings (as indicated by Lyle and Erik's testimony), but again, this is undermined by the film treating the unreliable prosecution witnesses as credible. Looking at the movie, it seems to be a cross between hinting that Lyle and Erik were lying about the sexual abuse and what led up to the killings, and Fox wanting the audience to "make up their own minds" as to what happened. The actors did a good job, considering the amount of time they had, and while Farentino gave a reasonably good performance, I don't think any actor could capture Jose Menendez as he was. It would be far too difficult. The prosecution bias is also obvious in its portrayal of the brothers, especially Lyle (the same can be said for the above-mentioned CBS miniseries).

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

The 48 Hours episode is on youtube.

Their timeline here.

Inside the story of the notorious Menendez brothers case

Lyle and Erik Menendez were sentenced to life in prison for killing their parents. Now, more than three decades later, they are hoping new evidence could reopen the case.

www.cbsnews.com

I watched and I am convinced they were abused. I believe they should be freed. if that evidence was available in the trial, they likely would have gotten a lighter sentence if convicted. moo

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I agree. Looking back to the start of this thread and going through it, you can actually see how things have changed. A big problem was that Jose Menendez was wealthy and powerful; people were afraid of him, even his family members. It's interesting that the family members who support Lyle and Erik (at this point, there's only one that doesn't) have stated that they forgive the brothers for killing their parents, but they don't forgive the parents for abusing their children. That says so much.

Yes it's hard for me to re-visit this case. A friend of mine took her life because her parents abused her so heavily (it was a combination of religious abuse and heavy neglect. Plus her mother repeating very unhealthy behaviors with her.) Domestic abusers really enjoy inflicting pain on their partners, offspring and even the pets of the household.

Also the lawyer for the brothers was demonized publicly but she obviously knew things the public did not.

Another reminder to cherish and protect children.

 

[Noirdame79]

Yes it's hard for me to re-visit this case. A friend of mine took her life because her parents abused her so heavily (it was a combination of religious abuse and heavy neglect. Plus her mother repeating very unhealthy behaviors with her.) Domestic abusers really enjoy inflicting pain on their partners, offspring and even the pets of the household.

Also the lawyer for the brothers was demonized publicly but she obviously knew things the public did not.

Another reminder to cherish and protect children.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so tragic, and probably not unusual, sadly. Having survived an abusive childhood myself, there were times when I thought about ending it all, but fortunately, I never did. I still live with the effects of trauma today, but I'm grateful to be alive and I've never been suicidal since.

Jose was abusive to animals as well, specifically some of the family pets. Not really surprising.

Of all the defense attorneys in this case, Leslie Abramson was singled out the most for ridicule and attacks (and the judge was biased against her). She was outspoken and stood her ground, and I think so much of the criticism she received was rooted in misogyny. If she was male, she wouldn't have been attacked nearly as much, in my opinion. She has also been badly portrayed in many documentaries, but she was ahead of her time. And she saw herself as the mother that Lyle and Erik never had.

 

[Noirdame79]

Andres "Andy" Cano (July 14, 1973 - January 18, 2003) was the youngest son of Jose Menendez's sister, Marta Cano. He and Erik were close growing up (or at least as close as they were able to be). On the few occasions Erik was permitted to stay over at Andy's house, he told Andy, "You're so lucky to have a lock on your door" (referring to Andy's bedroom door). In both trials, Andy testified to an incident that took place when he was 10 and Erik was soon to be 13. They were playing in the fields behind Andy's house and Erik told Andy that Jose had been touching him inappropriately, and swore Andy to secrecy. Unfortunately, Andy never forgave himself for not coming forward about the sexual abuse sooner, even though he was a child at the time, and he battled depression for the rest of his short life. In January 2003, Andy visited his father, Peter Cano (who testified in the first trial about an incident that occurred when Lyle was six years old and was punched in the stomach by his father) in Puerto Rico, and visited friends in Costa Rica. Andy had been having trouble sleeping and had left his medication at his father's house, so he went to a pharmacy, and was told not to take more than two capsules in a single doese, but Andy hadn't been able to sleep for three days and he took four. He never woke up. There is some debate about whether or not it was an accidental overdose, but either way, it's so tragic. His mother Marta later found among his belongings a letter that Erik wrote to Andy in late 1988 that corroborated the sexual abuse, at least in the sense that Erik was afraid of Jose coming into his room at night. This letter, along with Roy Rosello's allegations, was included in the hapeas corpus petition.




Andy visiting Erik at Folsom state prison in 1999, at Erik's wedding

Andy and his mother Marta

Andy's grave marker in the Our Lady Queen Of Peace Cemetery in Royal Palm Beach, Florida. His father Peter, who passed away in 2011, is buried next to him.

An excerpt of the letter that Erik wrote and sent to Andy in 1988



***Mild Trigger Warning*** An excerpt of Andy's testimony from the first trial

 

[Noirdame79]

Kitty with Lyle and Erik


Jose and Kitty with Lyle and Erik












Yes, Lyle and Erik loved their parents, and they miss them. Despite the abuse and trauma, they desperately wanted, and to a degree, still want their parents' love and approval. On direct-examination during the first trial, Lyle said of Jose, "I miss the bond that I had with him." When he was asked by his attorney Jill Lansing if he felt he had betrayed his father by revealing the sexual abuse, Lyle replied, "I have betrayed him." Lyle also mourns the love that he never felt that he got from his mother, who seemed to resent him because Jose focused so much on him, the first born son. When Erik was asked by his attorney Leslie Abramson what he loved most about Kitty, his face lit up and he said, "Her smile." Even though Kitty was often cruel to Erik at times, she seemed to prefer him to Lyle. Other than when he had to testify in the trials, Erik refuses to say anything negative about his mother; he desperately wants to believe that she loved him. Erik felt that he was a disappointment to his father and was never good enough. "Why can't you be more like your brother?" is what Jose would often say to him.

 

[Noirdame79]

Erik and his grandmother, Maria Carlota Lliano Navarro Menendez (December 8, 1917 - March 5, 2009). She was the first woman inducted into the Cuban Hall Of Fame, due to winning five gold medals for swimming in 1935 at the Central American and Caribbean Olympics (Erik inherited her talent in swimming). Lyle and Erik's grandfather, Jose "Pepin" Menendez Pavon, was a pro soccer player.





Although Maria stood by her grandsons until the day she died (her husband predeceased her in 1987) she was never happy about the family secrets being revealed. She did not testify in either trial and did not agree to be interviewed by either side (although she occasionally spoke to prosecutor Pamela Bozanich to give her "tips" about the family lifestyle, which is bizarre considering that the prosecution was seeking the death penalty against her grandsons), and told her daughter Marta Cano when she was preparing to testify, "You will kill your brother twice." Erik would tell Dr. William Vicary, the psychiatrist who treated him at the L.A. County Jail, that as much as he loved his grandmother, she had an "evil side". It wasn't until after her mother's passing that Marta felt comfortable enough to share another dark family secret, something she had witnessed several times as a young girl in Cuba. Marta saw her mother fondle Jose when she was changing his diaper on more than one occasion. Beginning when he was three years old, Jose was placed in his mother's bed every morning by his father while he dropped his daughters at school and went to work. This continued until Jose turned six, then he was enrolled at a school that started at 1:30 pm. Maria was, according to Marta, "obsessed" with Jose. She never disciplined him and let him run wild, but also controlled him. This explains his adult behavior in many ways. He was kicked out of several schools, frequently bullied other children, and masked his feelings of insecurity by behaving as if he was superior to others.

Mary Louise "Kitty" Andersen and her brother Brian Andersen (who died October 2, 2017).


Their father Charles "Andy" Andersen, was violent toward their mother, Mae Maloney Andersen; it wasn't uncommon for him to beat her in front of the children. Brian and his brother Milton were also on the receiving end of their father's abuse (which is strange since they refused to believe that their nephews were abused by their parents). Charles and Mae eventually divorced, which was a big scandal in the 1950s, especially in a small town. Kitty felt ostracized and her mother became an alcoholic and emotionally dependent on her youngest child. This explains Kitty's attitude that "Divorce is the worst thing that could happen to a woman" and even told her sons at one point, "My parents' divorce ruined my childhood." She would later tell her therapist that she had married a man just like her father, "the very man I tried to run away from." She refused to divorce Jose, even though he was unfaithful, abusive to her at times, and abusive toward their children. Kitty took her anger and frustration out on Lyle and Erik. Charles remarried and changed his ways, and while Kitty still had contact with him during her adult life (he passed away before the first trial), she never forgave him for divorcing her mother and leaving the family. The alcoholism is also a cycle that would repeat with Kitty, as well as depression, and there were times when she became emotionally dependent on Erik, just as her mother had been on her. Kitty's sister Joan married at seventeen, perhaps to escape that chaotic home life. The following year, Kitty was abruptly sent away to boarding school, and this led Joan to believe that Kitty was sexually abused, possibly by a family member. Sadly, sending abused children away was common practice at the time, which often compounded the sense of trauma and shame.

In the first trial, the defense had wanted to have family members testify about Jose and Kitty's early lives, to show how the cycle had repeated, but the prosecution objected, claiming it was "too remote" to be relevant, and the judge agreed. It's unfortunate because that kind of background information is crucial to understanding the cycle of abuse.

 

[Noirdame79]

Erik's girlfriend from Calabasas High School, Kirsten Smith, testified for the defense in the penalty phase in the second trial. She pleaded with the jury to spare Erik's life, and she stated that he was a kind and warm person. She also relayed an incident that was corroborative of the sexual abuse.

 

[DeDee]

Kitty with Lyle and Erik
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Jose and Kitty with Lyle and Erik

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Yes, Lyle and Erik loved their parents, and they miss them. Despite the abuse and trauma, they desperately wanted, and to a degree, still want their parents' love and approval. On direct-examination during the first trial, Lyle said of Jose, "I miss the bond that I had with him." When he was asked by his attorney Jill Lansing if he felt he had betrayed his father by revealing the sexual abuse, Lyle replied, "I have betrayed him." Lyle also mourns the love that he never felt that he got from his mother, who seemed to resent him because Jose focused so much on him, the first born son. When Erik was asked by his attorney Leslie Abramson what he loved most about Kitty, his face lit up and he said, "Her smile." Even though Kitty was often cruel to Erik at times, she seemed to prefer him to Lyle. Other than when he had to testify in the trials, Erik refuses to say anything negative about his mother; he desperately wants to believe that she loved him. Erik felt that he was a disappointment to his father and was never good enough. "Why can't you be more like your brother?" is what Jose would often say to him.

I find it difficult to respect parents who favor one child over another. It's not right. That's not the way it's supposed to be. I cannot imagine the anguish these two brothers endured. Sure they had money, lots of it. But, it came at a steep price.

I believed every word Erik testified to in court. I know murdering their parents was wrong. They must have felt trapped, suffocated with the overbearing Jose. Kitty did not protect them from him.

Every wrong thing that had been done to them in the past exploded that fateful evening. I was shocked to learn Lyle went out to reload and came back to shoot his mom in her face even though he was the favored child.

 

[Noirdame79]

Well, I guess I spoke too soon. Prosecutor Pamela Bozanich will be appearing in a new docuseries about the case (excerpts of which are featured in this video). It's bad enough that she still claims that there was no abuse, but she has made a point of continually spreading misinformation for years. Why can't she just admit that she was wrong? On the positive side, there are very good and promising things about the case that is discussed in this video.

 

[Noirdame79]

It looks like that at least at one point in this new docuseries (Menendez Brothers: Victims Or Villains) one of the myths perpetuated in this case (which has been repeated by Pamela Bozanich, even though she knows it's not true) is that Jose and Kitty were sitting on the couch in the den, eating bowls of ice cream and strawberries when they were shot, will be debunked. I don't know where this originated from, but I know it was brought up by the prosecution in the first trial, and Dominick Dunne ran with it in his Vanity Fair articles. It has become so persuasive and commonly repeated that many people cite it as if it is fact; it also doesn't help that the two television movies inspired by the case that aired between the trials in 1994 showed the actors playing the parents eating ice cream in the den when the shooting began.

James Farentino and Jill Clayburgh as Jose and Kitty Menendez in Honor Thy Father And Mother (1994)



Edward James Olmos and Beverly D'Angelo as Jose and Kitty Menendez in Menendez: A Killing In Beverly Hills (1994)



The problem is, there is no evidence of this. The crime scene footage taken by the late BHP detective Les Zoeller, as well as his testimony at the first trial, confirms that there was no food in the room, and there was only an empty dessert-style glass with a spoon in it on the coffee table. There was another empty dish from the same set in the kitchen. At some point when the crime scene photos were being taken, one of the other officers brought the empty dish from the kitchen and placed it on the coffee table next to the other one. This shows the incompetency of the Beverly Hills Police and their lack of experience in dealing with crime scenes. I think people like to repeat this myth because it makes the parents look helpless and the brothers look like monsters. Another myth about the shooting that has persisted (thanks in large part to first trial prosecutor Pamela Bozanich) is that Jose was asleep when he was shot and didn't know what was happening, and that Kitty got up and ran around. Again, the evidence suggests otherwise. There were no bullet holes in the couch, which confirms that both parents were most likely standing when the first shots were fired. The wound to Jose's outer thigh suggests that he was standing. Kitty was lying in front of the couch, which suggests that was where she was standing when she was shot. From what I've heard about his docuseries, quite a few myths about this case will be debunked, which is wonderful. If you're outside of the US (like me), you'll have to pay to watch it, but by the sounds of it, it's so worth it!

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Season 2 of Ryan Murphy's Monsters series on Netflix will be on this case.

Mansion Where The Menéndez Brothers Murdered Their Parents Sold, While Netflix Series Featuring GH’s Nicholas Chavez In Production

Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story: Release Date Prediction, Cast, and Everything to Know - TV Guide