CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

I appreciate reading the thoughts and insights here. I'll posit an unfavorable opinion... I lived in LA when all of this happened and am very well read, I work in the legal world, and still, even after everything has been revealed and/or corroborated, I do not think that anyone deserves to die like this. The parents did not deserve to die like that, and the brothers do not merit death for what they did either IMO. The case still fascinates - its ripples so far reaching, sad, and tragic...
 
I appreciate reading the thoughts and insights here. I'll posit an unfavorable opinion... I lived in LA when all of this happened and am very well read, I work in the legal world, and still, even after everything has been revealed and/or corroborated, I do not think that anyone deserves to die like this. The parents did not deserve to die like that, and the brothers do not merit death for what they did either IMO. The case still fascinates - its ripples so far reaching, sad, and tragic...

The brothers and their attorneys never argued that the parents deserved to die. They were simply trying to explain why it happened. What Lyle and Erik Menendez should have been convicted of was manslaughter, and if they had, they would have been free by now. The conduct of the police, the judge, and the DA's Office in this case was despicable. The prosecutors sought the death penalty against two young men who had no history of violence yet they didn't seek the death penalty against OJ Simpson, who had a history of abusing and stalking one of the people that he killed. The term "the abuse excuse" which was applied to this case was coined by none other than Alan Dershowitz, who has made a career out of defending abusers and predators and shaming abuse survivors. This, coupled with his association with Jeffrey Epstein and the fact that Dershowitz has been accused of sexual assault should be enough to question his motives. There is no reason for the prosecutors or anyone else associated with this case to spread misinformation unless they have an ulterior motive.

The brothers loved their parents and miss them, but they are also impacted by the abuse that they suffered at the hands of their parents. One of the positive things to come out of this case is that with the death of Jose Menendez, he will not be able to victimize anyone else.
 
One of the positive things to come out of this case is that Jose Menendez will not be able to victimize anyone else.
RSBM: Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Respectfully, Jose Menedez is unable to do ANYTHING, including take responsibility, accept restitution, face the consequences, confront his accusers, face those who abused him, etc. etc.

Death is not the answer IMO. So sad and tragic all the way around IMO.
 
RSBM: Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Respectfully, Jose Menedez is unable to do ANYTHING, including take responsibility, accept restitution, face the consequences, confront his accusers, face those who abused him, etc. etc.

Death is not the answer IMO. So sad and tragic all the way around IMO.

The problem with that is that abusers/predators rarely admit responsibility. They will typically deny it. Jose was wealthy and powerful and it's difficult to imagine that he would have been prosecuted. Many people feared him and it's unlikely that these people or any of the evidence that was brought forth at trial would have been revealed when he was alive. Kitty was abusive toward her sons as well, including sexually, and didn't protect her children. She would have had just as much to lose if the abuse ever came out, and it's not unreasonable for Lyle and Erik to believe that their parents would rather kill them than risk the family secrets being revealed. They were mistaken the night that they killed their parents that their lives were in danger, but abusers often pose a threat to their victims, and that doesn't mean that Jose and Kitty wouldn't have killed their sons at some point (abusers killing their victims is far more common).

In terms of the first trial, there was a large amount of corroborative evidence that the abuse happened. Roy Rosello has no reason to make false allegations. He only met Lyle and Erik once years ago when they were kids and he has not had any contact with them since. Rosello has signed a court declaration under penalty of perjury in terms of any evidence he gives to corroborate the account of the brothers regarding Jose being a sexual predator, which further strengthens his credibility, although there is no reason to doubt him anyway.
 
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Yes, I am very aware of what transpired in the trial and since.

Thanks, just wanted to share that it's ok to have different opinions than the majority in case others wanted to post but felt outnumbered.

I stand by my opinion that killing someone is NEVER the answer.
 
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Yes, I am very aware of what transpired in the trial and since.

Thanks, just wanted to share that it's ok to have different opinions than the majority in case others wanted to post but felt outnumbered.

I stand by my opinion that killing someone is NEVER the answer.

That's the misconception of this case. It was never argued by the defense that the killing of the parents was justified or that being abused was an excuse to kill. However, abuse is a mitigating factor. The brothers have never claimed that killing their parents was right. They do regret it, they weren't thinking rationally at the time, because of the years of abuse and threats, and because Lyle made the mistake of telling Jose that he would publicly reveal the abuse if he didn't stop sexually assaulting Erik. They realized that their father wasn't about to let them talk or escape; they didn't think they could successfully get away from him (Erik tried to run away when he was 12 and Jose said that he would always find him). It's difficult to understand what it's like to be in that situation, however, the brothers were emotionally stunted and didn't have the proper skills to make it on their own due to their parents' domination. They also knew that their relatives couldn't protect them and didn't think that the police would believe them. Sadly, they were probably right. There isn't a day that goes by when they don't regret killing their mother and father, but they are also relieved that their parents can no longer mistreat them. It's complicated, and not black and white (as the prosecution tried to make it out to be). This is why I'm glad that more information has been revealed.

You don't have to condone the killing of the parents to recognize why this happened and to see that the treatment and sentencing that the Menendez brothers received were unfair. I appreciate your insight.
 
In some interviews since the trials, first-trial prosecutor Pamela Bozanich claimed that she knew all along that it would be a sexual abuse defense or specifically, that she knew it would be a fabricated defense. If that were true, why weren't she and her co-counsel better prepared? Why didn't they call her own expert witness?

Here is evidence (from LA Times reporters Ron Soble and John Johnson, who later wrote a book about the case in 1994 entitled Blood Brothers) that proves otherwise.

Page 202: [Detective Leslie] Zoeller met with Pam Ferrero (later Bozanich), a slight deputy district attorney with an iron will and a bulldog disposition that she did under the stylish, buttoned-up suits she wore to court. Passionate about mushroom burgers and getting bad guys, she was a top prosecutor in the organized crime unit of the D.A.'s Office. She liked to joke that she was like a B-grade movie actress, with a specialty wardrobe for every case. When she did child abuse cases, she wore ribbons in her hair like a little girl. And when she asked for the death penalty, she wore her white gabardine dress with puffs on the shoulders like angel's wings, as though she had been sent by God himself to conduct this poor, misguided soul to the other world.

Page 225: But even without it (the December 11th tape, which was ultimately played later in the first trial) she was confident that one tape was damning enough to force the defense to change its strategy. [Dr. L Jerome] Oziel's credibility was shaky, but the defense, she felt, couldn't risk a go-for-broke claim that the boys hadn't done it. So what would the defense be?

"Battered child syndrome," Bozanich guessed. In other words, it would be Arnel Salvatierra
(a 17-year-old who shot and killed his physically and verbally abusive father in 1988; he was represented by Leslie Abramson and Marcia Morrissey and he was ultimately convicted of voluntary manslaughter and received probation. Like Lyle and Erik, he believed his father would kill him) all over again, only this time with Jose Menendez in the role of abusive father. "They will go for voluntary manslaughter."

The definition of battered child syndrome: The battered-child syndrome, a clinical condition in young children who have received serious physical abuse, is a frequent cause of permanent injury or death. The syndrome should be considered in any child exhibiting evidence of fracture of any bone, subdural hematoma, failure to thrive, soft tissue swellings or skin bruising, in any child who dies suddenly, or where the degree and type of injury is at variance with the history given regarding the occurrence of the trauma. Psychiatric factors are probably of prime importance in the pathogenesis of the disorder, but knowledge of these factors is limited. Physicians have a duty and responsibility to the child to require a full evaluation of the problem and to guarantee that no expected repetition of trauma will be permitted to occur.

Battered child syndrome is regarding physical abuse, not sexual abuse. Also, sexual abuse was not commonly used as a defense at the time. Physical abuse was beginning to be used as a defense, but sexual abuse was not. Moreover, Bozanich likes to brag that she was a "sex crimes prosecutor", and has cited her failed prosecution of the McMartin preschool trial as something that made her an expert on CSA. Yet, she continually promotes myths about child sexual abuse and the perpetrators. In her mind, a child has to be starved, locked in a closet, or suffer broken bones or serious injuries to have been physically abused. It's clear that she has no real understanding of abuse, yet thought nothing of using her own father's abuse experience in her closing argument to try to convey how a victim of abuse should act or should feel. In this latest docuseries, she made a fool of herself. She said that people who believe Lyle and Erik Menendez are "stupid" (this includes jurors and experts like Dr. Ann Burgess who evaluated the brothers and analyzed the crime scene). Bozanich continually states that she wants nothing more to do with this case, yet she has continually given interviews about it, and has made a point of spreading misinformation. This is further proof that she is not trustworthy, IMO.
 
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Some recent photos of the house on North Elm Drive, from when the mansion was up for sale last year. Not surprisingly, there have been changes made (flooring, etc).
The 9063 Square Feet single family home is a 7 beds, 9 baths property.



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The house was much messier when the Menendez family lived there. Jose and Kitty were sleeping on a box spring mattress, and there were many things that were unpacked and unorganized, which may have been because they were in the process of building a new house in Calabasas.
 
One of my gfriends has that same rug in her newly purchased 1924 home. Except it doesn't have all the border material around it. Must have been popular in that time. (2nd pic)

Think of all the furniture you need to buy to furnish that home. $$$$
 
One of my gfriends has that same rug in her newly purchased 1924 home. Except it doesn't have all the border material around it. Must have been popular in that time. (2nd pic)

Think of all the furniture you need to buy to furnish that home. $$$$
I know right? The house is beautiful but I don't think I could live there, even if I could afford it.
 
As terrible as the prosecutors in the first trial were, the lead prosecutor in the second trial, David Conn (who died in 2006) was even worse. Conn was well aware of the fact that there was evidence of abuse, but he and his co-counsel, Carol Najera (who is now a judge, let that sink in for a moment), conspired with the judge Stanley Wiseberg (who presided over both Menendez trials) to block and/or severely limit defense evidence to ensure a conviction. Erik did testify about the abuse, including the SA, and the events that led up to the killings, but the majority of the corroborative evidence and testimony was not permitted until the penalty phase. This meant that the second trial jurors did not get anywhere near the amount of crucial information that the jurors in the first trial did. Conn became extremely agitated whenever Erik testified about the SA by his father, especially when Erik would cry, so Conn would make a point of asking for a recess (when he wasn't objecting). Worse, on cross-examination, Conn mocked Erik, re-victimized him, and called him a liar. In his closing argument, Conn made the ridiculous and false argument that Jose and Kitty Menendez were loving parents who never abused their children and even went so far as to say that Jose was not a predator. At one point he said, "Did Jose Menendez SA his sons? I submit to you that he did not." He also said that incidents of physical and emotional abuse that were testified to were just the parents "disciplining" their sons. Absolutely disgusting (Conn had two children himself, which makes you wonder what kind of "parent" he was). He likened the defense to a "country club abuse excuse - too much tennis, not enough hugs". In his closing during the penalty phase, he said that the brothers deserved to be put to death and the jurors could make up for OJ Simpson not getting the death penalty by sentencing Lyle and Erik to death. He even said Lyle should be dead because he had "black, dead eyes". Like Pamela Bozanich, Conn lied in interviews and while I'm glad he's dead, there's a part of me that wishes that he was alive so he could face consequences for his horrible actions.

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David Conn and Carol Najera

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High school yearbook photos of Jose and Kitty

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Mary Louise "Kitty" Andersen won the title of Miss Oak Lawn in 1962. This is why she has often been referred to as a former beauty queen.

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Jose and Kitty shortly after their marriage in 1963

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Jose and Kitty Menendez at the first Video Music Awards ceremony, which was held at Radio City Musical Hall in New York City in 1984. At this point, Jose was an executive at RCA Records.

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After the verdict in 1996, two former classmates of Jose's from Hazelton High School in Pennsylvania gave interviews where they said that Jose couldn't have abused his sons but even if he did, they could have just left. One admits to not following the second trial because he was so offended by the first one and another said he lost interest in the first trial. It's so bizarre how they claim that Lyle and Erik "are where they belong" and they are so passionate about defending a man they knew from high school and whom they most likely hadn't seen since. How would they know that he couldn't have been an abuser? Most people who knew Jose, even those who loved him, described him as being cruel and at the very least a bully, if not outright abusive.

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Further proof that convicting the Menendez brothers in the second trial was politically motivated. The District Attorney, Gil Garcetti, was running for re-election, as was the judge, Stanley Wiseberg, and prosecutor David Conn wanted to be promoted to District Attorney (which did not happen). One of the many offensive things that Conn stated in his closing argument was that the "Battered Persons' Syndrome doesn't exist", and that the testimony of abuse was the "most ridiculous story" he'd ever heard in a courtroom. The audacity.

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In the latest docuseries on the case, Pamela Bozanich stated that people believe the brothers are "stupid" and that jurors are "stupid". Her bitterness in failing to get a conviction in the first trial is very obvious. She also acts as if she has been forced to do interviews on this case when in actuality, she's the only one of the attorneys in either trial who has continually given interviews. The defense attorneys, as well as Bozanich's co-counsel it the first trial, Lester Kuriyama, have been declining interviews for years; Carol Najera occasionally does interviews, and even David Conn didn't do that many when he was alive. Les Zoeller (the lead detective on the case, who died in 2021) also gave many interviews even though like Bozanich he often claimed that the case ruined his life/career, his marriage, made his children distant from him, etc. They made a point of spreading misinformation about the case as well which explains in part why so many myths about it have persisted.
 
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