CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[DeDee]

[video=youtube;KavYPuL3XUA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KavYPuL3XUA[/video]

I was not disappointed in the acquittal in the first trial. Wept when they were convicted to LWOP.

The spending spree really raised some eyebrows but not for me. This is from my personal PTSD experience. I bolded words that mimic the Menendez's experiences.

These young men never got to make their own decisions. Neither did my daughter. My X was all over her sports activities once she turned 4yo. By her jr yr of HS, she had tennis every day and he was there. Hitting. Practice matches. Private lessons. Tennis matches. Regional Tournaments. National Tournaments. Jr Davis Cup. Every day. Then, four years of playing tennis for college in another state. Can you imagine why she went to college in another state? The constant control would end. [She was never sexually or otherwise abused.]

My X, a brilliant NPD sociopath, controlled everything we did for many years. When I finally left, and took a nice chunk of change with me, after DD graduated college, I spent money as if my mattresses were stuffed with replenishable millions. I purchased MY own chosen car, a red convertible, and registered in MY name. Purchased my own insurance! Purchased new furniture. Went to Hawaii. All b/c these were my choices and mine alone.

There was such an immense overflow of joy for being free at last yet so very paranoid and fearful for my life until my decision making boundaries were askew. You should see some of wonderful art and the jewelry I purchased for myself. I donated heavily to charities.

My enormous spending spree was due to the PTSD. While in the heights of PTSD, it is almost like living in a fog. The fog is protection from the poisonous, brutal reality. Sometimes the trauma from reality is too brutal to bear all at once. The flashbacks are too filled with terror and can lead to severe panic attacks.

In my own fragile way, skewed by effects of PTSD, I was purchasing the new fresh way of living and tossing out the things that reminded me of the old harsh way of being in an abusive relationship.

I did not realize that the Menendez Mansion in Beverly Hills once belonged to Elton John until viewing some vids from the links you've kindly posted. Thank you.

 

[Schmatz]

@Noirdame79 Thank you so much!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

 

[Noirdame79]

Lyle and Kitty

Leaving their parents' memorial service

In front of their Beverly Hills home not long after the murders. Pay close attention to just how thin Erik is. Although he was losing weight at this point, it was obvious that he hadn't quite grown into his adult body yet

 

[Noirdame79]

From Lyle's Facebook page:

I thank my family for helping me with this page. I don't have internet access so this site depends on them. I have been told that setting up this page will open me up to ridicule and criticism. That’s probably true, but it’s something I’m already used to. It is very hard to accept that sexual assault can be the punchline of jokes or the subject of ridicule, but it has occurred--to me--and to many others. If I am mocked for this page, the shame of that belongs on the mocker and not on me or anyone who shares their story here. There is, quite simply, nothing funny about child rape or other abuse.

The purpose of this page is not to debate the clearly wrong decision that I made. The purpose is to provide a safe place for people to talk about their similar experiences and find comfort in others who have suffered in silence in the same way. Those of us who have suffered abuse understand the healing power of sharing our experiences.

I have received thousands of letters from people all over the world who have heard about my experiences and connected with them or simply had empathy for me and my brother. When I first started to receive the letters, I answered every one. But, eventually, I became overwhelmed. Still - whether I answered them or not - I read all the letters and my heart ached for each person brave enough to share, and I was inspired by the strength it took every person to take pen to paper and pour out their hearts.

In fact, I testified every day at my trial in 1993 with a letter of an abuse survivor in my pants pocket to give me courage. The letters I receive to this day continue to give me courage and strength.

With the resurgence of interest in our case and the prevalence of social media, I’m now in a better position to be able to create a place for those of you who want to reach out to me. Even more, this format gives us all the opportunity to create a community of compassion, empathy, inspiration and strength. I hope you will share your stories here and that we can build something positive from something so negative. I hope that we can all be survivors, lift each other up when we need it, and show everyone that by supporting each other, we can not just survive but thrive.

If you write to me here, I will be read your posts, through my family, and I will respond. We can help each other.
One final note: I have heard that social media can be the opposite of what I just described. Please know that hateful posts will not be approved and hurtful/hateful comments will be deleted by an administrator. Let’s make this a safe space.

Lyle

 

[Noirdame79]

Lyle and Jose

Erik at his high school graduation, May 1989

Recent photos

Lyle

Erik

In the prison where he is incarcerated, Mule Creek State Prison in Ione, Lyle is President Of The Inmate Government, a position he has held for 15 years. He also started a support group for fellow prisoners who were victims of sexual abuse and rape. Erik, who now resides in Richard J. Donovan Facility in San Diego, works in the prison hospice unit, caring for terminally ill inmates. He was able to get a program passed to improve conditions in the hospice and is taking courses in health care.

Both are making a conscious effort to help others and to channel their experience into something positive.

 

[Quiet Time]

Weird thing is...look how happy they look in the last two photos. imo

*prison pics

 

[Noirdame79]

A more recent report on the possibility of a new trial for the brothers, although there's no guarantee.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016...hers-erik-lyle-menendez-chance-for-new-trial/

 

[Noirdame79]

Weird thing is...look how happy they look in the last two photos. imo

*prison pics

Well, like I said, they are trying to make something of their lives, and are both happily married. I recall that at one point during the 20/20 interview that Lyle stated that he feels his childhood helped to prepare him for prison life - which indicates that their years growing up in a family of wealth was not as pleasant and pristine as some may think.

 

[Noirdame79]

I was quite surprised that Lyle agreed to these recent interviews, but from what I understand, he was trying to promote his facebook page about reaching out to other abuse survivors. Erik wrote him, advising him to not take part, but Lyle felt that it was something he needed to do. Erik did watch the 20/20 special because he wanted to hear Lyle's voice; they haven't seen or spoken to each other since they were separated in 1996, and they are not permitted to talk on the phone, but they correspond frequently, even playing chess. While Erik does want his voice heard, he has vowed never again to do any mainstream media and will only speak to people and sources that he trusts, which is why he declined to be interviewed for 20/20. He has done some phone interviews which have been posted on youtube and he did respond to the ABC special; when both parts are uploaded I will share them here.

Erik's view is that the media tends to distort and manipulate and he stated that outright lies were told on 20/20 and that it only highlighted the negative parts of his and Lyle's past (before the murders). And to an extent, that does seem to be true; notice how Jose and Kitty are rarely held up to the same scrutiny and no mention is made that Jose likely molested other boys and may even have been involved in a pedophile ring. Brian Andersen, Kitty's brother, is the only family member who refuses to see how dysfunctional the family really was and paints his nephews in a very negative light. When Lyle and Erik were arrested in March 1990, Andersen publicly stated that he didn't believe that the brothers committed the murders, that they were not capable of that. But when the sexual abuse allegations came out, he turned on them. As I said before, his own son, who lived with the Menendez family in the 1970s, his sister Joan (whose daughter, by the way, is Diane Vander Molen, the cousin who stated on 20/20 that Lyle had confided to her when he was 8 years old that his father was molesting him), and other family have continued to support them and believe them. Very telling, wouldn't you say?

 

[neesaki]

I just watched the HLN special "How It Really Happened" About this case.
IMO it was out and out wrong that the sexual abuse testimony wasn't allowed in the second trial. That the first trial produced not one but two hung juries is very telling, IMO. The prosecution was desperate to win after losing the first trial and the OJ Simpson case, and would do anything to win this one.

I'm not saying at all that the murders were justified regardless of circumstance, but I'm really shocked that all appeals have been denied, especially in liberal California. I believe that the brutality of the crimes says a lot, about long held repressed anger, most likely as the result of abuse. Not saying there was absence of greed, but that was secondary, and alone wouldn't have fueled such violence. JMO

 

[Noirdame79]

http://people.com/crime/lyle-menendez-today-sexual-abuse-claims/

EXCLUSIVE: Lyle Menendez on ‘Skepticism’ of His Sexual Abuse Claims — Which Prosecutors Call an ‘Excuse’

On a recent Sunday morning, Lyle Menendez sat in the day room at California’s Mule Creek State Prison quietly talking on the phone about his dad Jose and mom Kitty, who he and his younger brother, Erik, brutally murdered with two 12-gauge shotguns nearly three decades ago.

“I’ve sort of made peace with who my father was,” Lyle tells PEOPLE in a rare prison interview that appears in this week’s issue, on newsstands now.

“He had a sickness and I’ve forgiven him,” Lyle says, “but I don’t know if he’s forgiven me.”

The 49-year-old convict — who along with his brother was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the grisly killings of their wealthy parents in 1989 — pauses for a moment as he speaks, then continues: “I don’t know if my mother forgives me, but I have definitely struggled mightily to find a peaceful place to forgive her.”

Exactly why Lyle feels the need to forgive the two people he and his brother shot 15 times, as they watched TV in the den of their Beverly Hills, California, home, lies at the heart of what made the case one of the nation’s most-publicized.

The killings, the brothers and their attorneys claimed at trial, were done in self-defense after years of sexual abuse by their entertainment executive father — abuse they insisted was ignored by their stay-at-home mom.

It’s a claim that Lyle continues to make, long after he was dismissed by investigators. He describes the murders to PEOPLE as “the most astounding and regrettable thing that has happened in my life.”

Plenty of people don’t buy the brothers’ story. “Lyle is a congenital, pathological liar,” says retired Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney Pam Bozanich, the prosecutor for the first trial, which lasted six months and ended in two hung juries. (Each brother had a separate jury.)

“The only way that they could go to trial and have any hope of not getting the death penalty was to make up an abuse excuse,” Bozanich says of the brothers, adding, “This was all about money. And I was very convinced by the end of the trial that the whole thing was fabricated based upon evidence that I gathered from various sources.”

Instead, prosecutors argued, the brothers’ motive was purely financial. After their parents were killed and before their arrests, Erik and Lyle went on a lavish spending spree.

Lyle — who claims his father sexually abused him between the ages of 6 and 8 and continued to molest his brother up until his murder — knows his allegations have been dismissed by many.

“There’s always going to be skepticism,” he says. “People think I just hopped up on the witness stand and told a story that a sleazy defense attorney made up. But many people knew there was sexual abuse in this family.”

One of those believers is a relative: Kitty’s eldest sister, Joan Vander Molen.

“I loved my sister very much and have been so very sorry that she was not strong enough to take care of her children when they needed her protection,” Vander Molen tells PEOPLE.

“Kitty must have felt tremendous shame and guilt knowing her husband’s sexual dysfunction went beyond affairs. … Our family tragedy should be a lesson to all on the destructive effects of child abuse and molestation, whether they are wealthy or not.”

During his two murder trials in the mid-1990s, Lyle claims that he and his brother received “thousands” of letters from those touched by their accusations of abuse — and people often wrote about their own poignant experiences.

For the past 15 years Lyle has served as president of the inmate government, but three years ago — in an attempt to find what he calls the “meaning beyond the tragedy” — he organized an informal support group for inmates whose lives were derailed by childhood sex abuse.

He says he is working with prison officials, doctors and a handful of researchers to create a more “structured curriculum,” involving upwards of 40 inmates.

“The purpose is not therapy,” Lyle says. “The purpose is getting the weight of keeping it [childhood sexual abuse] a secret off the shoulders of these guys, allowing them to realize that bottling this up has caused many of the problems that got them here.”

Renewed attention over the brothers’ case (thanks mostly to Lyle’s speaking-out from behind bars) has prompted Lyle, through the help of family members, to create a Facebook page dealing with child sex abuse.

After nearly 27 years behind bars, he says he regrets that fateful night in August 1989, when he and Erik killed their parents in a rampage.

“I was my father’s prized son,” Lyle explains, before claiming, “At the same time I had been very brutalized by him and keeping his secret was a part of who I was.”

He continues, “What I regret is not having our family somehow get this secret out earlier and maybe it could have been resolved without this tragedy and destruction. The explosion that occurred that weekend shattered and destroyed everyone’s lives.”

 

[Noirdame79]

http://people.com/crime/lyle-menendez-today-prison-interview/

Lyle Menendez Speaks from Prison on Parents’ Grisly Murder: ‘You Can’t Escape the Memories’

In a rare interview from prison, convicted murderer Lyle Menendez tells PEOPLE in this week’s issue that he “still has sleepless nights” over the grisly 1989 shotgun slayings of his wealthy parents — which he committed with his brother, Erik Menendez.

“This tragedy will always be the most astounding and regrettable thing that has ever happened in my life,” Lyle says from California’s Mule Creek State Prison.

“You can’t escape the memories,” says Lyle, 49, “and I long ago stopped trying.”

The Menendez brothers’ first murder trial riveted the nation, thanks in part to it being televised.

Both brothers testified that they were armed with 12-gauge shotguns when they burst into the den of their home in Beverly Hills, California, and fatally shot their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez, while the couple watched TV.

The murders, the brothers claimed, came after years of sexual abuse by their father — abuse which they insisted was ignored by their mom.

But the prosecution argued their motive was financial, and the abuse claims were a cover to avoid the death penalty. Erik and Lyle embarked upon a lavish spending spree after the killings that involved expensive watches, cars and tennis lessons.

“This was all about money,” former L.A. County Deputy District Attorney Pamela Bozanich tells PEOPLE.

In 1996, three years after their first trial ended in a deadlock, the brothers were convicted of the first-degree murders of their parents and sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Lyle, who was a Princeton University student at the time of the slayings, says he and Erik have spent the past 27 years behind bars “searching for meaning beyond the tragedy.”

Lyle has served as president of the inmate government for 15 years and runs a support group for fellow prisoners who have endured childhood sexual abuse and violence. Erik, who is incarcerated at a facility 500 miles away from his brother, devotes his time to terminally-ill inmates.

“I still carry the guilt,” says Lyle, who hasn’t been allowed to speak to Erik since 1996. “It will always be part of you. But it doesn’t have to define you.”

 

[animlzrule]

Am I the only one that thinks the 'boys' lied and they just made up the sex abuse story to save their behinds? I remember watching this trial and always though they they killed their parents for the money. I do believe the father was a monster and the mother was very weak, but I don't believe the father sexually abused them. The father had several mistresses, which makes me believe he would have no interest in raping his sons.

No, you're not the only one. This was a terribly sick family, and from all accounts Jose was a horrible person. But, these boys grew up with every available resource at their feet and had every opportunity to bail if their situation was truly that dire. I agree, this was strictly about money and revenge against an abusive parent. But I'll never believe they were sexually assaulted by their father. Someone with Jose's ego, prominence and bloated machismo would never risk public exposure of something like that even if he had the desire to exert that kind of physical power and control over his boys. The chances that the boys would join forces and expose him would have been too high and catastrophic. I believe they have warped personalities from living under the same roof as Kitty and Jose, and probably thought they'd get away with it because of their available money and resources. It's very sad, because I don't think those boys ever had a chance living with those two. They were on a bad road even before they decided to murder their parents.

 

[Noirdame79]

No, you're not the only one. This was a terribly sick family, and from all accounts Jose was a horrible person. But, these boys grew up with every available resource at their feet and had every opportunity to bail if their situation was truly that dire. I agree, this was strictly about money and revenge against an abusive parent. But I'll never believe they were sexually assaulted by their father. Someone with Jose's ego, prominence and bloated machismo would never risk public exposure of something like that even if he had the desire to exert that kind of physical power and control over his boys. The chances that the boys would join forces and expose him would have been too high and catastrophic. I believe they have warped personalities from living under the same roof as Kitty and Jose, and probably thought they'd get away with it because of their available money and resources. It's very sad, because I don't think those boys ever had a chance living with those two. They were on a bad road even before they decided to murder their parents.

No offense, but you come across as naive. Are you not aware of the revelations in recent years of the sexual abuse of children in the entertainment industry? Jose Menendez was a Hollywood executive and Hollywood protects its own. As for the wealth and what the brothers had at their disposal, that came from their parents, not from them. And the qualities you listed about Jose's personality, actually fits that of child molesters and incest aggressors - especially those who are in positions of power or in pursuit of more power. He controlled his sons and monitored their movements whenever possible, even drilled a hole in the ceiling of Erik's bedroom in order to spy on him (when the family lived in Calbasas, a fact that the PROSECUTION, irony of ironies, wanted to present to Erik's jury during the first trial but Judge Weisberg refused). I get what you're saying about the emotional, mental and physical abuse too, but that could have very well been part of the coercion. Jose grew up believing that everyday rules did not apply to him, and as I said, most of the brothers' family members remain supportive of them and testified on their behalf, three of them hinted at possible sexual abuse; two cousins testified that the brothers came to them on separate occasions and confided that their father had been touching them inappropriately and another stated that Jose frequently showered with his sons. Sexual abuse creates such fear and shame within the victim, it's not surprising that many don't tell for years and some likely don't tell at all, especially if the perpetrator is a parent. The brothers knew how powerful their father was and how much clout he had in the industry. The fact that they were legally adults at the time does not mean that they couldn't have been afraid. The incestuous father knows he has committed the perfect crime because he has all the power and will have all the credibility. There was also no sex offender registry in place at that time; that didn't come into existence until Megan's Law was passed in 1994.

The photo I posted on this page of Jose with his very young sons on his lap is disturbing and unless you don't want to see it, I don't know how you could disagree with that. He clearly is fondling Lyle's genitals and Lyle looks uncomfortable and is gripping his own small hand over his father's, as if he was trying to pry Jose's hands off of his genitals. The naked photos taken of the brothers when they were small (one of the photos was identified as that of Erik by a birthmark on his wrist, and Kitty's signature was on the outside of the envelope), with only their lower bodies in the photos is hard to ignore too - how many parents do you know who take photos of their children like that? Furthermore, Jose, after his death was implicated in a sexual abuse scandal involving the Latin boy band Menudo, whom he signed to a record deal in the mid-1980s when he was an executive at RCA; the group owner, Edgardo Diaz, has also been accused of sexual abuse, as have several other men associated with the band's administration. The boys in the band were plied with drugs and raped; shortly before his death, Jose joked about these young boys being sexually violated to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax.

 

[Noirdame79]

A preview for the recent HLN: "How It Really Happened" special featuring a phone interview with Lyle:

[video=youtube;dIVh3CrAEYg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVh3CrAEYg[/video]

 

[Hiandmighty]

Abuse is never about sexual satisfaction, but is about power. If he had numerous mistresses-- so what. He still could have been a child predator.

 

[Noirdame79]

Abuse is never about sexual satisfaction, but is about power. If he had numerous mistresses-- so what. He still could have been a child predator.

Perfectly put and I agree.

Besides accusations that Jose possibly molested other young boys, something else that is NEVER mentioned in documentaries is the fact that Jose and Kitty owned firearms themselves; they kept two loaded .22 rifles in the master bedroom closet. And the photo I posted of Jose and the boys on his lap is usually cropped at the bottom when it is featured in documentaries and books, so that we don't see that Jose is fondling Lyle's genitals.

 

[animlzrule]

No offense, but you come across as naive. Are you not aware of the revelations in recent years of the sexual abuse of children in the entertainment industry? Jose Menendez was a Hollywood executive and Hollywood protects its own. As for the wealth and what the brothers had at their disposal, that came from their parents, not from them. And the qualities you listed about Jose's personality, actually fits that of child molesters and incest aggressors - especially those who are in positions of power or in pursuit of more power. He controlled his sons and monitored their movements whenever possible, even drilled a hole in the ceiling of Erik's bedroom in order to spy on him (when the family lived in Calbasas, a fact that the PROSECUTION, irony of ironies, wanted to present to Erik's jury during the first trial but Judge Weisberg refused). I get what you're saying about the emotional, mental and physical abuse too, but that could have very well been part of the coercion. Jose grew up believing that everyday rules did not apply to him, and as I said, most of the brothers' family members remain supportive of them and testified on their behalf, three of them hinted at possible sexual abuse; two cousins testified that the brothers came to them on separate occasions and confided that their father had been touching them inappropriately and another stated that Jose frequently showered with his sons. Sexual abuse creates such fear and shame within the victim, it's not surprising that many don't tell for years and some likely don't tell at all, especially if the perpetrator is a parent. The brothers knew how powerful their father was and how much clout he had in the industry. The fact that they were legally adults at the time does not mean that they couldn't have been afraid. The incestuous father knows he has committed the perfect crime because he has all the power and will have all the credibility. There was also no sex offender registry in place at that time; that didn't come into existence until Megan's Law was passed in 1994.

The photo I posted on this page of Jose with his very young sons on his lap is disturbing and unless you don't want to see it, I don't know how you could disagree with that. He clearly is fondling Lyle's genitals and Lyle looks uncomfortable and is gripping his own small hand over his father's, as if he was trying to pry Jose's hands off of his genitals. The naked photos taken of the brothers when they were small (one of the photos was identified as that of Erik by a birthmark on his wrist, and Kitty's signature was on the outside of the envelope), with only their lower bodies in the photos is hard to ignore too - how many parents do you know who take photos of their children like that? Furthermore, Jose, after his death was implicated in a sexual abuse scandal involving the Latin boy band Menudo, whom he signed to a record deal in the mid-1980s when he was an executive at RCA; the group owner, Edgardo Diaz, has also been accused of sexual abuse, as have several other men associated with the band's administration. The boys in the band were plied with drugs and raped; shortly before his death, Jose joked about these young boys being sexually violated to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax.

No, not naive at all. We'll agree to disagree. Regarding the above photo, with the boys on Jose's lap, I think it's pretty clear that it is you, in fact, who is seeing what you want to see. I'm loathe to defend anyone in this whole mess, but no, Jose is not "clearly fondling" Lyle's genitals. In a case as sordid as this, there's no need for hyperbole and mischaracterization in order to heighten the titillation factor. The fact that they attempt to excuse their actions by claiming to have been sexually assaulted by their father is repellant and an affront to sexual abuse victims everywhere. Good riddance to all 4 of them.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I just watched the HLN special "How It Really Happened" About this case.
IMO it was out and out wrong that the sexual abuse testimony wasn't allowed in the second trial. That the first trial produced not one but two hung juries is very telling, IMO. The prosecution was desperate to win after losing the first trial and the OJ Simpson case, and would do anything to win this one.

I'm not saying at all that the murders were justified regardless of circumstance, but I'm really shocked that all appeals have been denied, especially in liberal California. I believe that the brutality of the crimes says a lot, about long held repressed anger, most likely as the result of abuse. Not saying there was absence of greed, but that was secondary, and alone wouldn't have fueled such violence. JMO

Sorry.

But they confessed and it wasn't self defense.

Now the sexual abuse would only work for the sentencing mitigating factors.

Just like it worked for the Affluenza Teen who killed 4 people and got probation.

So the judge obviously didn't take the sexual abuse seriously since they got the max sentence.

So imo. The judge knew but didn't allow the jurors to know.

But the judge still showed not one care , which means they were not buying the reason at all.

So the verdict was right. But the judge is the one to be upset with. Jmo.

Im just surprised that the million dollar lawyers couldn't get the sentence reduced or partly suspended or something.

 

[Noirdame79]

Sorry.

But they confessed and it wasn't self defense.

Now the sexual abuse would only work for the sentencing mitigating factors.

Just like it worked for the Affluenza Teen who killed 4 people and got probation.

So the judge obviously didn't take the sexual abuse seriously since they got the max sentence.

So imo. The judge knew but didn't allow the jurors to know.

But the judge still showed not one care , which means they were not buying the reason at all.

So the verdict was right. But the judge is the one to be upset with. Jmo.

Im just surprised that the million dollar lawyers couldn't get the sentence reduced or partly suspended or something.

It was the same judge in both trials, by the way - Stanley Weisberg. What he wanted was a conviction and not split juries as had been in the first trial, hence why he didn't allow defense witnesses and experts to corroborate the brothers until after conviction, during the penalty phase.