CA CA - Hugues de la Plaza, 36, San Francisco, 2 June 2007

[travelgal]

Oh, and I am no medical expert, but if he had a neck injury of the jugular and bleeding out so quickly - I think he would be in shock and unable to do anything rational. His not calling for help is a perfect example IMO.

 

[octobermoon]

(From Steely Dan's post above)

Investigators have an explanation for that, as well. They believe it's actually possible that after Hugues stabbed himself three times, he then washed the knife clean. Puh-leaaasse.

-----------------------------
Yep, something is hinky, imo. I about fell off the chair when I heard that.

 

[arielilane]

SFPD clearly dropped the ball on this one and the ME documents a suicide...ridiculous.

 

[EZRA]

One other thing that strikes me as odd is that how many people who are going to commit suicide use a knife? Honestly, it just seems that most people either shoot themselves, hang themselves, etc. A knife wound would take more time to complete the suicide mission. JMO

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

but the theory of suicide was brought up by Miss. Nix, an ex? I don't understand that whole piece of the transcripts there.

 

[Steely Dan]

One other thing that strikes me as odd is that how many people who are going to commit suicide use a knife? Honestly, it just seems that most people either shoot themselves, hang themselves, etc. A knife wound would take more time to complete the suicide mission. JMO

People will slash their wrists and maybe their throats but I can't believe anyone would stab themselves three times.

but the theory of suicide was brought up by Miss. Nix, an ex? I don't understand that whole piece of the transcripts there.

"The real notion of a suicide started with Melissa Nix," said Azar.

"I know that specifically, very specifically, it came out of my conversation with Miss Nix," Casillas confirmed.

Casillas and Nix talked four days after Hugues’ death; their conversation recorded for police records. While "48 Hours Mystery" was not permitted to hear it, Dr. Azar was, and shared it with us.

"She was telling him that he was into Japanese culture. And that he would - watched a lot of Samurai movies. She says, 'Can I ask you one thing. Was this a hara-kiri? Did he go into his stomach?' She asks him that according to Azar.

Hinky meter to the max. Why not? I've never heard of an investigation doing that. If they are afraid of letting something out then just play them the clip of the conversation where she says that. This bothers me too.

"It has been out there that you were the one that first told San Francisco Police that maybe it was suicide. Is that true?" Maher asked Nix.

"There were questions that were very leading on the part of Detective Casillas," she said.

When asked if he felt like he led Nix into a discussion of suicide, Casillas said, "If I wanted to ask her, 'Did he commit suicide?' I'm very capable of asking those kinds of questions."

"And did you ask those questions?" asked Maher.

"I don't recall I asked those questions. I don't - I didn't ask her, 'Did he kill himself.'"

A lot of stammering and it sounds like he's trying to cover something up about his interrogation, especially when it comes to asking questions that would be considered leading. The only definitive statement he gives is; "I didn't ask her if he killed himself." That's not what Nix said. She never said he came out point blank and asked her. So that statement would be true. He evades the leading question thing.

IMO, Casillas and Azar know a lot more than he's letting on and I don't think it's to help the investigation. Azar won't change the cause of death and she's the one who tells 48 hours about the content of the conversation. JMO. I wonder what went on behind the scenes of the show when they asked to listen to the tape? They don't seem to make a big deal about it and yet don't say that they were refused because of important evidence?

In a very strange way I think the police might think Nix was part of it. She was on the other coast but could have arranged something. It doesn't make any sense that she would be pushing so hard for a murder investigation if she was involved.

My hinky meter bends the needle trying to get past the highest level at so many points in this case.

One person has voted suicide so far. I wonder why? :waitasec:

I'd love to discuss it with them. Join us we won't attack you.

 

[arielilane]

I wonder what was found on his laptop ... did he contact someone for a rendezvous; go to answer the door when they arrived, only to be attacked by that person or that person's pimp (a set-up/robbery) or that person's husband (possibly spying on his wife & set-up the meeting pretending to be the wife)?

If so, they brought the murder weapon with them obviously & it happened out of view of the security cameras (I don't know what angles the camera covers but it can't cover every angle)

I think in the transcript, the emt says there was lots of blood outside - probably pooling while he tried to get back in to safety, struggling with opening the lock or whatever then once inside he locked his own door

I think the broken watch etc,. inside are just indications of him being in shock & walking slowly around dazed ...

just theories that don't necessarily explain everything

just brainstorming here

This is my theory as well. 48 Hours stated: When Hugues arrived home; he got something to eat and then surfed the Web. I think he connected with a female and instead of her arrival; her boyfriend or spouse came by and killed him. It was overkill …someone was furious. Someone knows something and I hope that justice is served. Justice for Hugues.

 

[arielilane]

I think even if he wasn’t drunk it is still possible that he wouldn’t have known he was stabbed in the abdomen.

 

[arielilane]

One other thing that strikes me as odd is that how many people who are going to commit suicide use a knife? Honestly, it just seems that most people either shoot themselves, hang themselves, etc. A knife wound would take more time to complete the suicide mission. JMO

Reports used to be that men used firearms; as women were more likely to use pills.

 

[thesaint]

This is my theory as well. 48 Hours stated: When Hugues arrived home; he got something to eat and then surfed the Web. I think he connected with a female and instead of her arrival; her boyfriend or spouse came by and killed him. It was overkill …someone was furious. Someone knows something and I hope that justice is served. Justice for Hugues.

Seems like between the French police's investigation (which interviewed over 50 ppl?) and the SF PD's investigation and the LA PD's investigation, that angle would've been thoroughly investigated.

With access to his cell phone records, his internet provider's records--both of which would be complete at that point and saved off to and preserved in the investigative file--and access to his laptop, it'd be virtually impossible for the police not to have arrested either a drug dealer or a jealous husband/boyfriend and taken them into custody for questioning--if the contact was established that night, in that time-frame.

Can't imagine SF having a lack of computer forensics experts who would have told the police within a few hours everything that transpired on Hughes computer and on his cell phone. And the police would've had an instant suspect.

Sounds like that didn't happen. At least if there was someone Hughes had contacted between returning from the club and his stabbing/death, the police were able to clear them as suspects.

And the same process of extracting from his computer and internet provider, cell phone and cell phone provider whom he had contact with would work for conceivably the entire time the guy lived around SF.

Which then leads to an operating theory of the case that (i) if it was a homicide and (ii) it was a non-random murder committed by someone with a motive (drug dealer, jealous husband/bf/gf, jilted ex-lover) it was someone with whom Hughes had contact primarily and perhaps solely in meatspace:

co-workers or fellow club-goers or ?

 

[Steely Dan]

Seems like between the French police's investigation (which interviewed over 50 ppl?) and the SF PD's investigation and the LA PD's investigation, that angle would've been thoroughly investigated.

With access to his cell phone records, his internet provider's records--both of which would be complete at that point and saved off to and preserved in the investigative file--and access to his laptop, it'd be virtually impossible for the police not to have arrested either a drug dealer or a jealous husband/boyfriend and taken them into for questioning--if the contact or nexus was established and maintained on-line.

Can't imagine SF having a lack of computer forensics experts who would have told the police within a few hours everything that transpired on Hughes computer and on his cell phone. And the police would've had an instant suspect.

Sounds like that didn't happen. At least if there was someone Hughes had contacetd between returning from the club and his stabbing/death, the police were able to clear them as suspects.

And the same process of extracting from his computer and internet provider, cell phone and cell phone provider whom he had contact with would work for conceivably the entire time the guy lived around SF.

Which then leads to an operating theory of the case that (i) if it was a homicide and (ii) it was a non-random murder committed by someone with a motive (drug dealer, jealous husband/bf/gf, jilted ex-lover) it was someone with whom Hughes had contact primarily and perhaps solely in meatspace:

co-workers or fellow club-goers or ?

I think it was someone he was involved with or someone on the periphery of that person. Since he was a hound dog all of his trysts are probably unknown to his friends and that makes things very difficult for the police.

 

[badhorsie]

This is my theory as well. 48 Hours stated: When Hugues arrived home; he got something to eat and then surfed the Web. I think he connected with a female and instead of her arrival; her boyfriend or spouse came by and killed him. It was overkill …someone was furious. Someone knows something and I hope that justice is served. Justice for Hugues.

The above is what I think happened too...

 

[Chromedaffodils]

Hello guys!

I have some questions I hope someone might be able to answer for me...

1. Where was Michelle when this crime was committed? (Has it been confirmed by cell pings, etc.)

2. Who told her it happened, how did they tell her, what was the date and time that they told her?

3. When did she arrive, how did she arrive - in detail (flight info, etc.), and where did she first go to when she arrived, then where did she stay after she got there?

4. Was a handwriting analysis done on the note left by the laptop?

5. Has the dna been compared to Michelle's?

6. Who was his last call to/from? When was his last call to or from Michelle?

7. What were her calls like to and from him, have her cell phone records been investigated?

8. What did the compuer forensics find?

9. Did I miss something???

She stated it was a crime of passion, it was well known by all the friends the back door was always left unlocked, it would have been easy to lock the back door after one left, it was obvious the killer took the weapon with them (while smiling two times I watched her say it mind you), and there was no way it was suicide. She immediatly called the investigators and crime reporters to plant them with a seed of suicide, she then is the first to call the parents. She appears to be mocking the LE and everyone for not figuring this crime out. Has she immortalized him and her by attaching herself to him eternally and attaching herself to his family as they emnbrace her as they would not have before as they were broke up. Someone also took an expensive silverware set from the apartment - how odd they left a new laptop, cell phone and other expensive items and took something very personal like silverware. To remember a dinner shared maybe?

Just a few rambling thoughts... I would LOVE some feedback! Thanks!

Everything I stated is my opinion only and I am not making any allegations, just stating some curiosities and questions.

 

[Steely Dan]

Hello guys!

I have some questions I hope someone might be able to answer for me...

1. Where was Michelle when this crime was committed? (Has it been confirmed by cell pings, etc.)

2. Who told her it happened, how did they tell her, what was the date and time that they told her?

3. When did she arrive, how did she arrive - in detail (flight info, etc.), and where did she first go to when she arrived, then where did she stay after she got there?

4. Was a handwriting analysis done on the note left by the laptop?

5. Has the dna been compared to Michelle's?

6. Who was his last call to/from? When was his last call to or from Michelle?

7. What were her calls like to and from him, have her cell phone records been investigated?

8. What did the compuer forensics find?

9. Did I miss something???

She stated it was a crime of passion, it was well known by all the friends the back door was always left unlocked, it would have been easy to lock the back door after one left, it was obvious the killer took the weapon with them (while smiling two times I watched her say it mind you), and there was no way it was suicide. She immediatly called the investigators and crime reporters to plant them with a seed of suicide, she then is the first to call the parents. She appears to be mocking the LE and everyone for not figuring this crime out. Has she immortalized him and her by attaching herself to him eternally and attaching herself to his family as they emnbrace her as they would not have before as they were broke up. Someone also took an expensive silverware set from the apartment - how odd they left a new laptop, cell phone and other expensive items and took something very personal like silverware. To remember a dinner shared maybe?

Just a few rambling thoughts... I would LOVE some feedback! Thanks!

Everything I stated is my opinion only and I am not making any allegations, just stating some curiosities and questions.

She was on the east coast. I also have had a slightly hinky feeling about her but I don't understand why she'd keep pushing the murder angle if she had something to do with it. JMO :waitasec:

 

[Chromedaffodils]

IMO the offenders who are the type to taunt the police will tread as close to the fire they can in order to mock and ridicule and almost scold the investigators for not solving the case as they laugh. Is there anything more specific than she was on the east coast? that sounds really convenient and hokey to me...

Thank you for your reply!

 

[thesaint]

Read recently that stabbing someone in the neck is something of a signature of a drug dealer killing/attack.

Drug dealers are notoriously minimal and circumspect about communicating, esp with their clients. it's possible for a regular customer to send a single, innocuous seeming text to a dealer and have the dealer show up with the appropriate quantity and type of product at your location without any confirmation from the dealer or any further communication. just page and wait.

and with the use of disposable cell phones, a dealer's number in Hugues cell phone logs isn't going to lead anywhere.

it's also possible that Hugues made physical contact with someone at the club before leaving, either a drug connection or a sex connection, and so didn't need to make any calls or initiate computer contact with them to have them show up.

that he was surfing sex sites and based on what he said to his co-worker as he left, he apparently hadn't made a love connection that night at the club.


Hugues neighbors did mention a loud noise either outside or at Hugues window that night, followed by noises on the stairs and out front? Perhaps his dealer didn't ring Hugues front door bell and so signaled to Hugues that way to come outside? where he was then attacked, either for a drug debt or--and this is just random speculation, as is all of this--Hugues had hooked up with one of his dealer's women and his dealer wasn't happy about it?

The clumsiness of yer average no-criminal-past husband or bf in carrying out such an attack and the likelihood of that person being at least interviewed by 1 or all of the 3 police investigations and more likely taken downtown and formally interrogated, makes it a stretch that this was just a very lucky 1st time killing by someone's jealous husband or bf.

 

[Nikki_2]

What if he was attacked farther down the street, out of sight of the cameras? They said he was drunk. So he stumbles home, goes inside, stumbles around in his apt and eventually dies from his wounds.

I tend to agree with you. This theory would make good sense. I also think that he knew who attacked him.


This case was handled badly from the start.

 

[Nikki_2]

Here are some of the really hinky things I find in this case;

Some of these are quotes from the 48 hours transcript.

There is no murder weapon

When those knives were tested, no blood was found.

"Would you expect, if there is a knife that is consistent with the wounds, that it would have blood on it?" Maher asked Casillas. "Yes, I would be. I would."

Investigators have an explanation for that, as well. They believe it's actually possible that after Hugues stabbed himself three times, he then washed the knife clean. Puh-leaaasse.

____________________________________

Investigators know Hugues arrived home safely, had a bite to eat and used his laptop to cruise some dating and sex Websites. At this point, Murphy believes, for some reason Hugues opened his front door and walked outside. (part of my theory)

____________________________________

"There are several themes in every case," Murphy said. "In this case, there was the theme about the jilted lover or the husband or the boyfriend that found out, and laid in wait and killed him. I didn't find it."

Something else Murphy didn’t find were any signs in Hugues' life that he was suicidal. There are so many people involved in his sex life there had to be at least one really angry person, IMO. However, it would be like finding a needle in a haystack it would seem. Also, I would imagine a lot of them were kept very quiet.

____________________________________

There were no drugs in his system.

____________________________________

The French reviewed all the investigation materials and retested all the evidence. According to François, they made a remarkable discovery: unknown DNA was found on Hugues' watch band. (this is another thing I used to build my theory about a SFPD person possibly being involved. It's at very least a sign of slovenly work on the case, IMO.)

____________________________________

Gascon confirmed that the San Francisco Police Department had quietly commissioned an outside review of the case. They received the report in February 2009.

"It’s unbelievable that we just happened to find out about this," Nix said. "There’s something about this is really fishy something smells bad to me."

____________________________________

And yet, despite the fact that now two outside reviews have labeled Hugues de la Plaza’s death a homicide, Dr. Azar continues to stick to her conclusion of undetermined.



If you have any information about the death of Hugues de la Plaza, please call the San Francisco Police Department>/link>'s Anonymous Tip Line at 415-575-4444.

Yes the silverware, a plain robbery would have certainly included laptop, phone, and everything else that he/she/they could carry. Silverware is personal, most of us have silverware passed on to us from a family member which we treasure for memory sake. I strongly believe that he knew who attacked him, I believe it was further down/up from where he lived and he did not make a scene about it perhaps he thought he would be able to clean himself up and sort this out later, ( if he was drunk, how much of the pain would he have felt then). Definatley murder not a suicide.

 

[Nikki_2]

They never mentioned a blood trail going up further on the street, IIRC. If that didn't exist it seems the theory doesn't work. JMO

I'm not criticizing you, just your theory. Feel free to criticize mine. We're here to kibitz about this stuff and as long as personal attacks aren't part of the discussion I think it's cool. Once again this is not aimed at you. I don't think I've read a lot of your posts. This is more for other people to read.

How do you know that there was no blood trail? the way that this whole case has been misconducted, it would not suprise me if they did not even look for blood or any trail further from his dwelling.


Please " this is more for other people to read" who are these other people Steely Dan?

 

[thesaint]

After watching the 48 hours video, some observations:

1. The re-enactment by Hugues father and his interpreter looked pretty spot-on in terms of a theory of how the various wounds happened.

2. There was a passageway to the right of the porch (facing the house). One of those between building, somewhat covered, step-down narrow passages between buildings you still find in isolated cases in cities. They lead to the back alley. Would've been an ideal, relatively unnoticeable by cameras and others method of ingress and egress.

3. The private detective (Murphy) seemed v certain that it was not a jealous husband or bf--that was his initial operating theory and his investigation found nothing and no one to support the theory. He seemed to favor either a random perp from one of the nearby projects or a drug deal gone bad.

4. The lack of detectable substances in Hugues system doesn't mean he wasn't meeting a drug connection--obviously if he stepped outside to meet a drug dealer and got stabbed in the process, he never got the drugs and he'd test clean. Other than marijuana, casual weekend use of club drugs isn't detectable in the blood after a couple days without.

If that Friday night were a special occasion, Hugues might've decided to keep the party going and tried to score something for the purpose.

5. What was up with dude's digs? 36 yr old pulling down decent coin living in what looked like a college student's apartment or druggie den. I understand it's pricey to live in SF, but that doesn't mean you can't keep the bed clothes and dishes clean.

6. I doubt Hugues neighbor couple interviewed still lived at that building--their entire interview took place outside on the steps and you figure 48 HRS would've asked to let them film inside a bit. I'd guess they likely GTFO of there quickly after Hugues death. However, if they still live there, that suggests they think a violent murder didn't occur inches from where they lay their heads at night. Looking at the cheap locks on those doors--and glass windows in the back kitchen doors, it appeared?--I can't imagine anyone sticking around much if they thought their other side of the wall neighbor had been murdered right outside the door. Even if they owned/own the building, I'd still think they'd not want to sleep there at night. But who knows.