I've read everything I can find on KK for years and every month, there is more info to find on Google. I'm in a bit of a hurry now, but I have to say that I believe she accidently or on purpose, overdosed on pills. Back later.
CA CA - Karyn Kupcinet, 22, West Hollywood, 28 Nov 1963
- Thread starter Kathy C
- Start date
Given the choice between accidental overdose and suicide, I would have to go with the latter. KK was desperately unhappy and I think it safe to say she had some mental health issues. She was addicted to prescription drugs. The man she loved had been jerking her around for months, resulting in her having an illegal abortion. She stalked him, she mailed him poison pen letters filled with threats and made up fantasical stories to try and get him back. She had been arrested for shoplifting and she was worried about her lack of steady work and her weight. She left behind a sad note, filled with despair. This scenario is as good as any and I think covers all the bases. Continued below.
As mentioned in the biography above, Karyn Kupcinet's real name was Roberta Lynn Kupcinet. For most of her short acting career, she used the stage name of Tammy Windsor. Late in 1961, she went by Karyn Kupcinet. Whether she actually changed her name legally or simply adopted "Karyn" as a stage name is not certain.
One of her earliest movies was a low budget film titled "Little Shop of Horrors" which was made in two days during the last week of December 1959, and which is available in VHS. It was a black and white comedy about a man-eating plant and had a rather zany cast of characters. The movie featured Jack Nicholson in one of his earliest roles. He played Wilbur Force, a masochistic dental patient.
Karyn (credited as Tammy Windsor) played one of two teenaged girls who want to buy flowers for a high school homecoming float. Tammy is the brunette teen in the dark dress. She appears in several different scenes and has speaking parts in each of them.
One of her earliest movies was a low budget film titled "Little Shop of Horrors" which was made in two days during the last week of December 1959, and which is available in VHS. It was a black and white comedy about a man-eating plant and had a rather zany cast of characters. The movie featured Jack Nicholson in one of his earliest roles. He played Wilbur Force, a masochistic dental patient.
Karyn (credited as Tammy Windsor) played one of two teenaged girls who want to buy flowers for a high school homecoming float. Tammy is the brunette teen in the dark dress. She appears in several different scenes and has speaking parts in each of them.
I made a big blunder. I saw Karyn K on an episode of Hawaiian Eye (she did 3 as far as I know). She was not credited. She had a decent part, so I thought when the credits rolled down that she was "Clerk: Tammy Windsor." She was never Tammy Windsor. Tammy was an entirely different actress and they looked nothing alike. At the time I went to IMDb and they said she was Tammy Windsor -- before I even posted it. So I thought that was confirmation. But no, someone made the same mistake I did. So the credits you listed for Tammy have nothing to do with Karyn Kupcinet. In her Hollywood career she was always Karyn Kupcinet (1960 - 1964 posthumous).
Kathy C
Yes, with all her problems she could easily have wanted to commit suicide. She wrote down some personal issues, but technically it was not a suicide note. She was identifying her problem and getting it off her chest. She loved books and liked to write. (One of her friends, I think Mamches, said she had more books than any girl he ever knew.)
But the tableau here states something other than suicide. On her bed (which was in disarray) lay her nightgown, brush and a once wet towel on the floor. The bathroom was neat and orderly.
But she was found in the living room, face down on the couch, unclothed, with her red bathrobe on a chair and the TV set on, with the volume low. It seems to me she went to answer the door. Whoever it was pushed his way in and killed her, either by getting her in a headlock from behind and closing the arteries to the brain. This has been described as a quick, painless death. Then the perpetrator messed up her house, taking things out of drawers, opening closets, so it looked like a robbery. She had 2 guests earlier. I wonder how they described her apartment.
Or she could have sustained a karate chop. I believe she was murdered by a hit man from the Chicago mob, a way to make Jack Ruby less prominent on the front pages of Chicago newspapers. Residents knew Karyn well and she was called Cookie to them. The headlines were shocking and Chicagoans lost interest in Ruby and the Mob. (Actually, I know Ruby was working for the CIA. I'm something of a JFK researcher. He was in with the Cuban Exiles and was a gun runner. It was a conspiracy that took President Kennedy's life and Ruby was definitely involved. See Simkin's JFK Debate Forum online.)
Then when that died down, Sinatra's son was kidnapped. That riveted the nation. The man who helped most to get Kennedy elected, now is wondering if his son is alive.
Yes, I believe it was a Mob hit on Karyn. But the President? I don't think so. CIA, Cuban Exiles, the patsy Oswald, Intel.
Kathy C
Attachments
An Australian JFK Researcher, Greg Parker, researched that Oxnard call. The Rosicrucians were prominent in that area of California. Greg found that the call was not as McAdams, disinformationalist, said. The woman was saying incantations and was not upset. There's this belief in radionics. She was using the phone as an electrical device that would bring about the results she wanted. Obviously, she knew Kennedy was going to die (as past attempts had failed). She was saying that Kennedy would die in a few minutes (10:10 am PT). The motorcade rolled in late because of their reception and because they shook hands with people at Love Field. Kennedy was shot at 12:30 pm, Dallas time. Twenty minutes after the woman predicted. Thewoman was never upset. But she was saying fires will fill the buildings in Washington DC. Creepy stuff.
Karyn was home in West Hollywood when Kennedy got shot. Her boyfriend, Andrew Prine, invited her to go to Palm Springs for the weekend to get away from it. She went and was there at the same time Chicago mobster, Paul Dorfman, was there. Did they cross paths? Dorfman was tracked down by Irv Kupcinet who told him Ruby shot Oswald. Dorfman couldn't believe it -- but I think he knew. I don't think he liked being tracked down like that and I think it gave him a brilliant idea for a crime to occur in Hollywood that would shock Chicagoans and make them stop talking about Ruby.
Kathy C
Sorry, but I had to get away from this for awhile; so depressing. My theory is KK spoke that last night with Prine on the phone. Once again, he rejected her. After hanging up, KK went beserk, tearing the sheets off the bed, throwing stuff around, etc. Once she calmed down, the sadness must have been overwhelming; it was "the straw that broke the camel's back". Two days earlier, she had about 6 prescriptions refilled; when the police showed up, the bottles for the most part were empty. I think she took the pills, then when they started to kick in, she panicked and tried to go for help. She didn't care if she was nude; she opened the door, then shut it again, leaving it unlocked because she needs to make it to the couch before she passes out. She fell on the coffee table, causing her injuries, then crawled onto the couch and died. Lots of possibilities on this one.
I have seen Little Shop of Horrors a number of times and have a VHS copy of it. The Brunette teen-ager credited as Tammy Windsor is a dead ringer for Karyn. Every on-line search I have done links the two together and there is no record of a different actress named Tammy Windsor after 1961.
It may be possible that there were two actresses using that name at one time or another, but the Hollywood scene was usually pretty careful about preventing that, usually requiring a new actor to change their name so as not to be confused with the current actor by that same name.
I have not seen all of the films and TV shows in the above "filmography" listing, but I am pretty certain that Karyn was the Tammy Windsor who appeared in Little Shop of Horrors.
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From Find a Grave Memorial website:
Karyn "Cookie" Kupcinet
Birth: Mar. 6, 1941
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois
Death: Nov. 28, 1963
West Hollywood, Los Angeles County, California
Actress. She was murdered the week after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and many Kennedy Conspiracy theorists believe that she had been killed to silence her. Her murder has never been solved.
Born in Chicago, Illinois, she was the daughter of Chicago "Sun Times" columnist Irv Kupcinet.
She began her acting career playing summer stock on stage. Actor-Producer Jerry Lewis discovered her, and encouraged her to come to Hollywood.
She obtained small bit roles on television, including "Hawaiian Eye" and "Perry Mason", and in 1961, won the role of 'Carol' on the "Gertrude Berg Show". She appeared in two movies, "The Ladies Man" (1961), with Jerry Lewis and in a 1960 movie called "The Little Shop of Horrors", under the name of Tammy Windsor.
Her nude body was found on Saturday, November 30, 1963 on the couch in her West Hollywood, California, apartment, and the coroner determined she had been strangled, and had been dead about three days. Her body was found on its side on the couch, the apartment door was unlocked, and the television set was on. A bowl of cigarettes, a coffee pot, and a lamp had been knocked over to the floor. While working in Hollywood, she took the diet pill, desoxyn, and police estimate that she had taken 80 of the pills in the five days prior to her death... more at link below which includes photos of her gravesite and portrait...
LINK to Karyn "Cookie" Kupcinet (1941 - 1963) - Find A Grave Memorial:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3532
AnonyMouse
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Desoxyn, the weight loss drug that she was taking, can cause hallucinations when taken in excess. In addition, it may cause or worsen suicidal thoughts in some patients:
Source: http://www.drugs.com/mtm/desoxyn-gradumet.html
If she did make the calls regarding Kennedy's assassination, she may have been under the influence of this drug. The link that Richard posted states that she allegedly took 80 Desoxyn pills within the five days prior to her death. It may have been purely coincidental that he actually was assassinated a few days later. Just adding a different perspective...
This is a very strange case, and it's a shame that a more thorough autopsy was not performed.
Source: http://www.drugs.com/mtm/desoxyn-gradumet.html
If she did make the calls regarding Kennedy's assassination, she may have been under the influence of this drug. The link that Richard posted states that she allegedly took 80 Desoxyn pills within the five days prior to her death. It may have been purely coincidental that he actually was assassinated a few days later. Just adding a different perspective...
This is a very strange case, and it's a shame that a more thorough autopsy was not performed.
MaryLiz
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I was also curious about Karyn using the name of Tammy Windsor because the IMDB was the only place I could find her listed as both. I did a little digging and found this link:
http://www.mail-archive.com/wbmutbb@wbmutbb.com/msg10716.html
Evidently there was a book written about Karyn (or is still being written) by Paul Fecteau and Karyn's niece, Kari Kupcinet. Someone wrote to Mr. Fecteau and asked him if Tammy and Karyn were one in the same person. He says no, but offers no real proof except to say the researcher who came up with that idea in the first place has since reversed her opinion. I also noticed that Karyn is no longer listed as Tammy Windsor on Wikipedia and both names did appear on her Wiki profile at one time, so they must have removed it. It's odd though, I can't find anything on a separate actress named Tammy Windsor at all.
http://www.mail-archive.com/wbmutbb@wbmutbb.com/msg10716.html
Evidently there was a book written about Karyn (or is still being written) by Paul Fecteau and Karyn's niece, Kari Kupcinet. Someone wrote to Mr. Fecteau and asked him if Tammy and Karyn were one in the same person. He says no, but offers no real proof except to say the researcher who came up with that idea in the first place has since reversed her opinion. I also noticed that Karyn is no longer listed as Tammy Windsor on Wikipedia and both names did appear on her Wiki profile at one time, so they must have removed it. It's odd though, I can't find anything on a separate actress named Tammy Windsor at all.
shadowangel
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How, exactly, is a "karate chop to the neck" diagnosed? How is it differentiated from other blunt force trauma?
No disrespect to all involved, but it sounds very 1960's TV-ish to me.
No disrespect to all involved, but it sounds very 1960's TV-ish to me.
Here is a link to a site which discusses the upcoming book by Karyn's neice Kari Kupcinet:
http://www.washburn.edu/faculty/pfecteau/kupcinet.htm
The linked page contains a further link to a fan club page for Karyn. If you click on it, there is a nice color photo of Karyn. I would state again, that I think she looks very much like the actress billed as Tammy Windsor in Little Shop of Horrors.
When I google or sort on the name Tammy Windsor, I get several sites, most of them mention Karyn Kupcinet. Some state that Tammy Windsor was a stage name for Karyn. It is possible that all of these sites borrowed incorrect information from a single source, but rather odd that there is nothing else on a Tammy Windsor past 1961 - the date that the name Karyn Kupcinet first appears in credits on film and TV.
Wikipedia's articles tend to change whenever someone decides to alter or add to them. So I would take with a grain of salt ANYTHING that they write or delete. It may be of interest to note that Wikipedia's current page on Karyn Kupcinet includes a Filmography section and it lists Karyn as playing the role of Hannah Carter on the Andy Griffith show in its first season of 1960. The problem is that the person credited with that role was one Tammy Windsor.
Richard, I was the one who made the big mistake. Tammy Windsor appeared in the 9th episode of Andy Griffith around 1960 or so. When you see her you will know she's not Karyn.
Little Shop of Horrors also featured Tammy Windsor. I thought the girl resembled Karyn too, but it isn't her. They never show a close-up on her.
Watch The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis. Her scene appears 30 minutes into the film. Jerry Lewis has his hand stuck on the hot toaster with Kathleen Freeman standing by him. You hear, "Catherine, oh, Catherine." She comes in from the back. "Miss Wellomelon asked me to tell you..." Notice her theatrical diction. She appears in other scenes, especially on the staircase when Miss Wellomelon is being interviewed by a TV show. Notice how petite Karyn is and how pale her skin. (Helen Traubel, Miss Wellowmelon, was a great person and a good sport.)
Kathy C
Interesting theory. But I think if she wanted to save herself she'd dial O for operator and have an ambulance come out to her. Possibly, she wouldn't want to embarrass her parents though.
I still believe she was murdered. If you're succumbing to pills you have taken, I don't think you'd take your bathrobe off and lay face down on the sofa.
Kathy C
I understand that the book fell apart. The same man has decided to write a screenplay about Karyn. If he does I'm sure that screenplay will be snapped up, probably for TV. With so many channels, Hollywood is searching for stories and scripts.
[Cautionary warning: I hope writers don't use the self-publishing route. It's very expensive and they will tell you if a studio buys the story to be made into a film or TV, they get half the money paid for it. First of all, it's a vanity press. Secondly, no one seems to buy them. You're the one spending the money. They don't edit these books, there's nothing professional or literary about them.
I'm in two writers' workshops and certain members are always so happy when their book has been printed by these publishers. They don't give you any advertisement, etc. They're just pulling the wool over people's eyes.
They say yes to everybody. They don't edit. English may be your second language. I've seen this. No mispellings or grammatical errors are ever corrected.]
Kathy C
This case certainly has a lot of interesting loose ends and mysterious possibilities.
Karyn Kupcinet, aka Roberta, aka Cookie, aka Tammy Windsor was only 22 years old and is found dead in her Hollywood apartment in November 1963. She evidently died on Thanksgiving day, only six days after the tragic events of President Kennedy's assassination in Dallas Texas.
It certainly makes a ready setting for a Screenplay.
How did she die? Maybe suicide. Maybe an accidental mixing of alcohol and medication. Maybe an accidental fall. Or - as ruled by a questionably competant coroner - murder by manual strangulation.
Since murder was the conclusion the case is one of homicide and this one has gone unsolved for 46 years.
We know some of the people who were questioned by police and who admitted to having been with Karyn in her last days and hours, but what exactly did they say in their police statements? What are the discrepancies in their stories?
What forensic evidence was collected, photographed, and mentioned in the police investigators report?
Who were the suspects and what were their alibis? And what did they say about Karyn's death in later years?
A number of friends and acquaintenances are mentioned in various summaries that I have seen of this case. How is it that Karyn died on Thanksgiving Day and nobody discovered this fact for three whole days? Didn't anyone try to call her? Did anyone invite her to Thanksgiving dinner? What about her so called boyfriend - Andrew Prine? Where was he for those three days?
Probably quite a few people in the United States died of various causes in late November 1963. Just how does the death of this young woman get tied to a conspiracy theory relating to the death of President Kennedy?
I ask a lot of questions here because they beg asking. And because you have to ask questions before the answers will come.
It would be very interesting to see the full text of all the statements taken and the reports made by police in this matter.
Karyn Kupcinet, aka Roberta, aka Cookie, aka Tammy Windsor was only 22 years old and is found dead in her Hollywood apartment in November 1963. She evidently died on Thanksgiving day, only six days after the tragic events of President Kennedy's assassination in Dallas Texas.
It certainly makes a ready setting for a Screenplay.
How did she die? Maybe suicide. Maybe an accidental mixing of alcohol and medication. Maybe an accidental fall. Or - as ruled by a questionably competant coroner - murder by manual strangulation.
Since murder was the conclusion the case is one of homicide and this one has gone unsolved for 46 years.
We know some of the people who were questioned by police and who admitted to having been with Karyn in her last days and hours, but what exactly did they say in their police statements? What are the discrepancies in their stories?
What forensic evidence was collected, photographed, and mentioned in the police investigators report?
Who were the suspects and what were their alibis? And what did they say about Karyn's death in later years?
A number of friends and acquaintenances are mentioned in various summaries that I have seen of this case. How is it that Karyn died on Thanksgiving Day and nobody discovered this fact for three whole days? Didn't anyone try to call her? Did anyone invite her to Thanksgiving dinner? What about her so called boyfriend - Andrew Prine? Where was he for those three days?
Probably quite a few people in the United States died of various causes in late November 1963. Just how does the death of this young woman get tied to a conspiracy theory relating to the death of President Kennedy?
I ask a lot of questions here because they beg asking. And because you have to ask questions before the answers will come.
It would be very interesting to see the full text of all the statements taken and the reports made by police in this matter.
You ask a lot of good questions, Richard. What puzzles me as much as her manner of death is why her dad didn't lean hard on LE to keep digging until no stone was unturned. Why didn't he have another autopsy done by a different doctor? He was rich and he had connections. I don't understand why he gave up so easily. Maybe he did keep the pressure on and just kept quiet about it...I don't know.
The book is out of print supposedly, but try Amazon or eBay or usedbooks.com or the library to see if you can get a copy of Crime Wave, chapter: "Glamour Jungle." Also there's this long article about the Kupcinets after Irv died called "The Lost World of Kup," which describes the family. It's an eye opener. Compelling. It appeared in Chicago Magazine. Type Irv Kupcinet and it will come up. Carol Rosenthal wrote the article.
Except for IMDb, I was the one who said Karyn was acting under the name Tammy Windsor because she was on the screen long. They credited Tammy Windsor as "The Clerk." I thought Karyn was using a stage name, as she had in the past. But I can't see her calling herself Tammy or Windsor. (By the way, as an infant they called her Bobbe Lynn, which is awful. I don't think they knew what to call this girl.)
In Episode 9 of the Andy Griffith Show Tammy Windsor appears. She is not Karyn Kupcinet. But it is strange how one career ended and Karyn's began. Jerry Lewis was the one to bring her to Hollywood. He discovered her as he discovered Connie Stevens.