Identified! CA - Ludlow, WhtFem UP2517, 17-22, buried, Nov'80 - Pamela Duffey & William Lane *arrest*

[FiveFelines]

Just realized that I had wanted to submit Tammy Clements but didn't. I'll do that now. Namus has another photo up of her in which it looks like there are also large gaps between her other teeth, like the UID.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/57829

 

[CarlK90245]

I got ahold of a photo of this jane Doe's maxilla and mandible. I put together this portrayal of how her smile might have looked.

Consider the above approximation of the Jane Doe's smile when considering possibles.

 

[bflocket]

Why do they think she was a nurse?

I think you're wondering the same thing I am. All the replies I just saw were all about whether she'd be a nurse, nurse's aide, candy-striper, etc.

I wanna know WHY they though she was a nurse (or working in the medical field) to begin with.
There's no mention of a nurse's uniform or any medical supplies or what have you found on her....

 

[dizzigirl1]

Consider the above approximation of the Jane Doe's smile when considering possibles.

Thanks Carl, that is why i was saying my thought might be a long shot. Cecile smiles with her mouth closed and i couldn't find any photos with her smile open to compare. For me, it was the specific detail of the pierced left ear on this Doe and Cecile with her left ear having a triple piercing. I had spent a bit of time trying to visualise it in my head but I am accomplished at stick figure pictures unfortunately. LOL.

 

[FiveFelines]

Just received this reply from Deputy Bob Hunter (to whom David Van Norman forwarded my email):

Both cases have DNA in the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) system. If there was a match it would come back.

So, no Tammy Sue Clements. She is ruled out.

 

[cvaldez1975]

are we sure her other ear wasn't pierced? maybe that side had decomposed.

 

[catherine.]

are we sure her other ear wasn't pierced? maybe that side had decomposed.

I was thinking the same thing.

Although if she was wearing earrings and the ear had decomposed, you'd think they would have found them by the remains.

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[cvaldez1975]

could have been stolen or fallen out somewhere else in a struggle.

I was thinking the same thing.

Although if she was wearing earrings and the ear had decomposed, you'd think they would have found them by the remains.

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[dizzigirl1]

not really sure about the other ear/earring & if it was lost etc. Both our Doe and Cecile for example specifically state left ear in the info & I spent quite a bit of time trying to dig around on the internet for more info. I cannot find anything suggesting possible nurse except on the uid profile. That's not to say there is nothing out there, more likely i am limited in knowing where to look. For example, I only discovered reading another thread on here that Charley Project has a page that regularly lists updates and additions to the network. Except for Carl's mouth render there really seems to be nothing so I let my imagination run wild with my suggestion. Sometimes way out there works? ps: On the new tool "Reveal" which is pretty cool, Cecile has year book photo's added with no mention of her left ear. She is smiling in two of them and it appears she is wearing braces to me. So i guess that has ruled her out after all that. Hope i have added the source properly and it is ok to do so.

https://lostandfound.revealnews.org.../1970&end_date=12/31/1981&missingperson=30977

 

[CarlK90245]

here's another photo of Cecile Moch from the Daft Club group photo in her 1978 (Senior) yearbook.

You can't see her teeth clearly, but from what I can see, there are no obvious anomalies.

 

[dizzigirl1]

You are just a little bit awesome Carl! Thankyou.

 

[alllads]

The only other thing I can find on Cecile Moch is that she was (in May 1980) a candidate for an associate degree from Santa Barbara City College.

 

[Ambercat]

The only other thing I can find on Cecile Moch is that she was (in May 1980) a candidate for an associate degree from Santa Barbara City College.

Does it specify what her degree was in? The website says that they offer an Associate Degree in Nursing (http://www.sbcc.edu/nursing/adn/). If Cecile graduated in high school in 1978, it might not be possible for her to get a nursing degree in that time; the reason why I say this is because when my mother went to Long Beach City College to get an associates degree in nursing, it took her a couple of semesters to complete all of the prerequisites that she needed to enroll in the program and there was a waiting list to get in. She graduated in 1983 and took the state boards that summer. I don't know the specifics and I was really young at the time [thus, my memories are somewhat sketchy], so I could be wrong about Cecile Moch not having time to get a Nursing Degree in two years.

Was it ever disclosed why authorities believe that the unidentified woman was a nurse? Was the male found with her also believed to be involved in health care too? [sorry, this is one of the Southern California cases I'm not familiar with]

 

[dizzigirl1]

I think Cecile's teeth are too good to be this particular doe. I haven't found anything about why they think this one could possibly be a nurse either. The only thing i have seen it on is the notes in the case history on the doe network. I keep looking though.

 

[alllads]

Does it specify what her degree was in? The website says that they offer an Associate Degree in Nursing (http://www.sbcc.edu/nursing/adn/). If Cecile graduated in high school in 1978, it might not be possible for her to get a nursing degree in that time; the reason why I say this is because when my mother went to Long Beach City College to get an associates degree in nursing, it took her a couple of semesters to complete all of the prerequisites that she needed to enroll in the program and there was a waiting list to get in. She graduated in 1983 and took the state boards that summer. I don't know the specifics and I was really young at the time [thus, my memories are somewhat sketchy], so I could be wrong about Cecile Moch not having time to get a Nursing Degree in two years.

Was it ever disclosed why authorities believe that the unidentified woman was a nurse? Was the male found with her also believed to be involved in health care too? [sorry, this is one of the Southern California cases I'm not familiar with]

The list is here: https://www.sbcc.edu/boardoftrustees/files/bot1980agendasminutes/5-22-80 Encl. 1.pdf She was a candidate for Associate in Science Degree. I guess it theoretically could be Nursing - there are SBCC Nursing degrees that are an Associate in Science.

 

[CarlK90245]

The list is here: https://www.sbcc.edu/boardoftrustees/files/bot1980agendasminutes/5-22-80 Encl. 1.pdf She was a candidate for Associate in Science Degree. I guess it theoretically could be Nursing - there are SBCC Nursing degrees that are an Associate in Science.

I was told that her associates degree was "nursing or dental hygiene, or some other health-related course." The person who gave me this info got it from a boyfriend of Cecile's from high school.

 

[alllads]

I was told that her associates degree was "nursing or dental hygiene, or some other health-related course." The person who gave me this info got it from a boyfriend of Cecile's from high school.

The page for her on Charley Project now has some more info: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/moch_cecile.html

I guess what's interesting is why do/did LE think that this young woman may have been a nurse? Is this reason at all compelling, and would it still work for someone that was studying nursing?

 

[dizzigirl1]

Doe network has the male listed as partial skeleton, ankh tattoo and possible white metal ankh earring (left ear), no sign of clothing. 5ft 4. Death approx 1 month prior. Our UID is listed as partial skeleton 1 to 6mths prior. Left ear piercing no description. No mention of clothing just possibly a nurse. Earlier in the thread, Carl mentioned that there are 6 photos thatLE can access- i will assume probably incorrectly that there is something that indicates she was possibly a nurse. Perhaps she was his carer? Cecile doesn't appear to have dentals to match our doe so i am trying to look at what could tie them together if at all?

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Carl, did you ever get a look at the photos? Was there any medical equipment near the bodies? I'm wondering if this is like someone called in a tip or the police took a psychic seriously kind of thing.


Maybe they were mistaken and she wasn't a nurse and we've been barking up the wrong tree for 35 years?

 

[bflocket]

Maybe they were mistaken and she wasn't a nurse and we've been barking up the wrong tree for 35 years?

My thoughts exactly. I want to know why they would so much as suggest her being a nurse, even if just (as is said) "possibly." I've looked at this thread many times since I've been on Websleuths and I've always wondered about that part.

DoeNet uses NamUS as a source on the profile. But nothing in the NamUS profile says a single word about "nurse."

I was thinking about it and questioned whether she may have had some kind of vaccination scar that wasn't particularly common in the general public, but could be among nurses or healthcare providers.
Then I remembered... Not only were her remains "skeletal," but "partial skeletal."

I am including this link because it has both DoeNet's and NamUS' profiles on a single page.
CAF801117 Nov 17, 1980, Ludlow, San Bernardino County, CA
(Porchlight International for the Missing & Unidentified)