Calif. whooping cough: 9 dead, infections on rise

[mom2six]

Obviously you have to keep your child home if they are diagnosed.

IF they are diagnosed, is the key. If they will not diagnose, you cannot keep your kids out of school for eight weeks. If they can get away with not diagnosing, they will, because the alternative is calling in public health.

I tell you, it makes you very cynical when they say that vaccination has eradicated all these things, but you personally know people who were not diagnosed for pertussis or measles when it is undeniable and obvious!

 

[hoppyfrog]

I tell you, it makes you very cynical when they say that vaccination has eradicated all these things...

Who has said that? Link?

As far as I know, the only disease for which a vaccine was available and then the disease was later eradicated was smallpox.

 

[Herding Cats]

Do you show them a corresponding book with the images of vaccine injured or killed children? This sort of fear-mongering is not good medical practice, it is blatant manipulation. Parental decisions should be made on the basis of information and research, not because heart-strings have been pulled and the love of parents for their children preyed upon.

Some parents feel it is more loving to risk injury from vaccine rather than disease and some feel they would rather risk injury from disease rather than vaccine. Both choices should be respected.

Mom2six, I'm doing my best to not feel attacked by your post, but I'm losing. Being told I'm fear-mongering when my patient is illiterate, and can't read the information pamphlet? Thanks.

I don't see the "scare book" as bad practice at all. I see it as educating people who don't have the education. Teaching them to understand what the diseases are, what they can do, and how vaccinations can help is not scaring someone; showing rows of children encased in "iron lungs" our hospital's polio ward in the 50's is not a scare tactic; it's showing what this disease can do, and why the vax is important.

I never said I didn't respect their choices. I do respect their choices, and if you'd read the rest of my post instead of getting ticked off about the scare book, you'd've seen that. I said then, and I say now, that people have the right to make choices; it's my job to make sure that people make the choice knowing the options, knowing the reality, of what they're doing. And had you read the post, you'd've seen that I spoke of not even showing the book to some folks who didn't want to see it. Hello?

At no point have I ever given a vax to someone who didn't want it. I would not do that. Nor would I ever support anyone who forced their personal choices on another - I said then, and I say now, it's our choice what we put into our bodies. Period.

I resent the heck out of you not reading my post the first time, and saying that I'm not respectful of my patient(s), and that I'm manipulative, and that I'm not practicing good medicine.

Herding Cats

 

[reportertype]

Just for the record, my brother is autistic and I helped take care of him when I was growing up. I still stand by my original opinion. I'd rather he be the way he is now, which is just fine, IMO - he's lived a loved, happy life, than be dead or have gone through a disease unnecessarily.

 

[SunnieRN]

There are certain circumstances when you can not be vaccinated. One is leukemia, there is also AIDS, and I can not get flu, pneumonia or tetnus shots, due to the fact that I had an autoimmune disease when I was 8 years old.

Ihad what is known as Guillian Barre, which to explain it easily, is like a temporary form of polio. It is rare in children and very rare to get it as badly as I did. I had a tracheostomy for a month and had to learn how to walk again.

I give flu and pneumonia shots. Years ago I got a flu shot, got pneumonia. The next year I got one and almost died. I had pneumonia, bronchitis and ear infections, as well as strep throat. Then I learned I should never have had one!

Before you get your shots for flu or pneumonia, discuss the risks and benefits with your health professional. I have many health problems and work with very I'll people every day, but I seldom get sick, despite an imperfect immune system. I believe that exposure has helped me, but that is unusual.

 

[OneLostGrl]

As you can see in my signature I have a child with Autsim. I whole heartedly believe the vaccination's played a role.

My 3 year old daughter has only had 3 vaccine's since she has been on this earth. She will get her shots in due time, on my schedule, and there may be some she won't get.

I will not subject her to what happened to my son if I can help it and it is my choice, does that make someone a bad parent ? I think not. Until you have lived with Autism, or any other disability, no one can say that the vaccinations outweigh what might happen. Please walk in my shoes for one week and I will ask you again then if your mind has changed.

Whooping cough vaccination is not 100 % and neither are the rest, the studies they would like you to believe that there is no link to vaccinations and Autism are not throughly done. Vaccinations is a 7 billion dollar industry a year to tie something like Autism to that would crush them. Also the people who manufacture vac. need not worry about being sued for anything because our goverment has set up the vac. injury comp fund.

And if there is no tie can someone please tell me why the courts sealed the documents to the case where the court found that the Vac. caused the little girls Autism and settled out of court for 1.5 million dollars in July 2010 ? Oh yeah I think they called it something besides Autism, because if you call it Autism you have no case because " there is no link ":

SNIP...........................
CBS surprised me though...
In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years. (From: Vaccines, Autism and Brain Damage, What's in a Name?)
Many have very recently pointed out that mitochondrial disease was proven the predisposing factor to exhibition of full blown features that resembled the clinical definition of autism in one child. That child's family accepted 1.5 million dollars, in July 2010, in order to settle their claim that vaccines caused regression - vaccines damaged their child. Reports show acceptance in the merits of the case with the claim being scientifically supported, according to our own government (link). This case, which was settled out of court proves the child's predisposition to damage from vaccines from mitochondrial disease.


Snip...............

Furthermore, the autism label is becoming the smoke screen that those in the medical community use in too general a fashion in order to deny the known risk of injury from vaccination.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/autism-a-smoke-screen-for-vaccination-court-denials

How is it that people who choose not to vaccinate put others at risk ? If you choose to be vaccinated then you should not have to worry about catching something from those who are not, right :waitasec: isn't that why you get vaccinated.

My brother is a Scientologist and his children have not been vaccinated- yet his youngest has autism. I know John Travolta denied his son had it until after he was dead but finally did say his son was autistic. Though he never said his children were not vaccinated- he, like my brother, is a scientologist and they do not allow vaccinations. I know those are not the only two non-vaccinated children with Autism so I personally have a difficult time with the vaccinations cause autism thing. Though I totally respect every parents right to choose what they think is best for their children. My sons doctor wanted to give him xanax for his anxiety, many parents would take it.. I'd rather teach my son how to handle his anxiety on his own because I have firm beliefs about Benzo's that nobody could ever talk me out of.. even if 50 doctors told me I'm wrong, they came out with studies and showed me all the proof in the world that my feeling was wrong. If it's what you (every parent) believe, you have the right to protect your child from what you think may harm him/her.

 

[LadyL]

I wish I could get the flu shot but I'm allergic to eggs. My husband never gets the flu shot even though he can & I worry about him constantly 'cause he doesn't have the best immune system. Me, I've been coughing for probably over 6 months now but my doctor says it's from smoking (she sent me for a chest xray to make sure.) She said I sound clear and after reading this thread, I now know why she asked what colour my pleghm was - I was like - um, idk - like pleghm-colored? LOL.

I'm a big believer in vaccines. I think most everyone my age has chicken-pox scars. I think I had german measles too?

 

[mom2six]

Mom2six, I'm doing my best to not feel attacked by your post, but I'm losing. Being told I'm fear-mongering when my patient is illiterate, and can't read the information pamphlet? Thanks.

I'm sincerely sorry you feel attacked. I did read your post in it's entirety. I went back and reread it twice just now. I do not see anything that references the use solely for illiterate parents. I believe you are practicing in good faith, but it is called a "scare book" for a reason. I take issue more strongly with your instructor, who should know better. You say, "It worked more often than not." That's because it is a manipulative tactic. If your patients' parents are illiterate, in what way do you explain the risks of vaccinating the children to them? This care is not based on mutual respect and understanding of the importance of teaching parents how to make well-reasoned, researched decisions. Illiterate does not equal ignorant.

Please know, this is not an attack against you personally at all! I am glad you are giving yourself to help others stay healthy. But I would like to encourage you to teach your parents to make decisions not based on emotion, but based on facts. A factual presentation would show a statistical grouping of all the children who got sick and the whole range of potential complications, from got through healthy and unscathed to hospitalized to disabled. Not series after series of the worst case complications. It should contain, likewise, a series of the risks of each vaccine, illustrating the whole gamut, statistically speaking. There are lots of ways to educate--video, audio presentations with the pros and cons clearly articulated--which do not resort to "scaring" others and make information accessible to all.

 

[hoppyfrog]

There are certain circumstances when you can not be vaccinated. One is leukemia, there is also AIDS, and I can not get flu, pneumonia or tetnus shots, due to the fact that I had an autoimmune disease when I was 8 years old.

Ihad what is known as Guillian Barre, which to explain it easily, is like a temporary form of polio. It is rare in children and very rare to get it as badly as I did. I had a tracheostomy for a month and had to learn how to walk again.

I give flu and pneumonia shots. Years ago I got a flu shot, got pneumonia. The next year I got one and almost died. I had pneumonia, bronchitis and ear infections, as well as strep throat. Then I learned I should never have had one!

Before you get your shots for flu or pneumonia, discuss the risks and benefits with your health professional. I have many health problems and work with very I'll people every day, but I seldom get sick, despite an imperfect immune system. I believe that exposure has helped me, but that is unusual.

Your post illustrates one of the most important reasons for getting vaccinated.

Not only do vaccines prevent disease in the one being vaccinated, but a vaccinated population doesn't get the disease in question and then pass it onto people who cannot get the vaccinations, like those with leukemia or AIDS.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have friends who do not believe in vaccinating their children. They did do a few of the vaccinations, but on a significantly delayed schedule. Anyway, the information they provided to the public school was that it was for "religious reasons" and the school could not question it. Problem is: they aren't religious in any, way, shape or form. In fact the dad is an atheist. They don't like vaccinations because they don't like putting "poison" into their children (their words, not mine!). They also don't approve of fluoride, antibiotics, etc. As far as the vaccinations, though, they used the "religious reasons" excuse because the "philosophical reasons" wouldn't have been acceptable to the school. For the ones they were on the delayed schedule for, they had to provide titers to prove that the children were at a certain level.

I have a very close friend that's part of the ultra conservative christian movement. She has 12 children, home schools, homesteads and doesn't vaccinate and regularly drinks unpasteurized milk. When my son was an infant, she almost had me convinced not to vaccinate...so I started my own research.

I decided to vaccinate on a delayed, very spread out schedule. I decided not to vaccinate for chicken pox and Hepatitis. My son didn't get chicken pox when he was younger and the risk of complications goes up with age, he's 12 now so I had him vaccinated for it very recently. We don't do flu shots either.

My research has convinced me these "superbugs" are kinda linked to the overuse and misuse of antibiotics. As a society we are bombarded with antibiotics, it's in the water supply and in the meat we eat. Don't even get me started on the food supply and the common American diet of hormone & antibiotic, preservative and processed everything.


Your atheist friends may very well be right, my research lead me to another conclusion...but they may be right!

 

[mikeysmommom]

As you can see in my signature I have a child with Autsim. I whole heartedly believe the vaccination's played a role.

My 3 year old daughter has only had 3 vaccine's since she has been on this earth. She will get her shots in due time, on my schedule, and there may be some she won't get.

I will not subject her to what happened to my son if I can help it and it is my choice, does that make someone a bad parent ? I think not. Until you have lived with Autism, or any other disability, no one can say that the vaccinations outweigh what might happen. Please walk in my shoes for one week and I will ask you again then if your mind has changed.

Whooping cough vaccination is not 100 % and neither are the rest, the studies they would like you to believe that there is no link to vaccinations and Autism are not throughly done. Vaccinations is a 7 billion dollar industry a year to tie something like Autism to that would crush them. Also the people who manufacture vac. need not worry about being sued for anything because our goverment has set up the vac. injury comp fund.

And if there is no tie can someone please tell me why the courts sealed the documents to the case where the court found that the Vac. caused the little girls Autism and settled out of court for 1.5 million dollars in July 2010 ? Oh yeah I think they called it something besides Autism, because if you call it Autism you have no case because " there is no link ":

SNIP...........................
CBS surprised me though...
In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years. (From: Vaccines, Autism and Brain Damage, What's in a Name?)
Many have very recently pointed out that mitochondrial disease was proven the predisposing factor to exhibition of full blown features that resembled the clinical definition of autism in one child. That child's family accepted 1.5 million dollars, in July 2010, in order to settle their claim that vaccines caused regression - vaccines damaged their child. Reports show acceptance in the merits of the case with the claim being scientifically supported, according to our own government (link). This case, which was settled out of court proves the child's predisposition to damage from vaccines from mitochondrial disease.


ITA When my children were babies(now 26 and 28 )I fought like the devil about the vaxs,I wanted no part of any of them for my children.I was ridiculed by the Dr and basically laughed at when I brought up the dangers.I was told the stats show a very small % of children were hurt by vaxs, as a mother I found that unacceptable.Back then you were not given a choice no vaxs no school.I felt the government had a hell of a nerve to force vaxs on children.IMO the people who need the vax are the ones coming from other countries where these disease's are wide spread.Do not get me wrong my people came from Italy in the early 1900's but back then if you came here you were checked by DR's and quarantined if you were sick.We need to go back to that, then we would not have to put our children at risk with these shots.My hubby gets the Flu shot every year I refuse to,Twice he lost his voice for 6 months of course DR said no connection which is BS because they found no reason for his loss of voice.I find it very telling that even the medical community has a lot of workers who refuse the swine flu shot.It is so many that a lot of Hospitals are firing people who do not get the vax.I believe 150% the vaxs can and do cause many problems for our children. I admit I do not trust our government because to them all we are is a number, and there are too many of us that makes us all expandable.

 

[SunnieRN]

Your post illustrates one of the most important reasons for getting vaccinated.

Not only do vaccines prevent disease in the one being vaccinated, but a vaccinated population doesn't get the disease in question and then pass it onto people who cannot get the vaccinations, like those with leukemia or AIDS.

That is part of the reason that when there are outbreaks of disease, they do not spread, as in third world countries, where vaccinations are not available. You have a fantastic point.

Vaccinations, pro or con are controversial and need to be made by the individual or their caretakers. There are risks and benefits to any vaccine. As I said prior, if you have any questions or concerns, talk to your health care provider!

 

[mikeysmommom]

Just for the record, my brother is autistic and I helped take care of him when I was growing up. I still stand by my original opinion. I'd rather he be the way he is now, which is just fine, IMO - he's lived a loved, happy life, than be dead or have gone through a disease unnecessarily.

My cousin is autistic most likely due to vaxs, Maybe you would rather your brother be autistic but would he?Many people today are not vax and they are neither dead or have gotten a disease.Would you have your breast removed just so breast cancer never hits you?Same difference in my mind.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Part of the reason people without vaccinations may not have gotten sick is that they are still protected fairly well by herd immunity. If everyone just decided that they didn't want to get vaccinated, THEN we would probably see more widespread serious communicable diseases in this country. Frankly, I would like to see if the people who refuse to get vaccinated would be willing to test out their "I don't need to get vaccinated" by going off to a developing country that doesn't have widespread vaccinations and see how they fare. Part of why they do okay here is because the majority still get vaccinated.

There is also a difference between antibiotics and vaccinations.

I don't mean to be snarky, but I do get annoyed when people say they don't "need" to be vaccinated while they are living in a country that doesn't have the rampant communicable diseases to contend with purely because most of the people in that country are vaccinated!

 

[Filly]

IF they are diagnosed, is the key. If they will not diagnose, you cannot keep your kids out of school for eight weeks. If they can get away with not diagnosing, they will, because the alternative is calling in public health.

I tell you, it makes you very cynical when they say that vaccination has eradicated all these things, but you personally know people who were not diagnosed for pertussis or measles when it is undeniable and obvious!

No doubt that had to be very frustrating for you. I'm not sure what calling in public health would entail. Do you think they wouldn't diagnose your children because they weren't vaccinated, but your oldest was and still had the cough?

In my post I was referring to the chicken pox and you don't have to be Doctor Spock to diagnose that. A child with chicken pox who should have been home in bed was poolside at the Jersey shore. It was bad judgement on the parents part as this kid was sick. It was ignorant because they exposed everyone else in the pool or pool side.

Measles is a whole different story. Why they wouldn't make that diagnosis is beyond me. There was just a case of someone returning from Africa where the measles are rampant. The person had them. This was Jersey again. Anyone that was in the several Doctor's offices the person was at or any of the stores they shopped in were given warning. People on the beach in Longport, New Jersey as well.

Measles scare me. I had German Measles as an infant. My Uncle brought them home from school where almost the entire class had them. My mom was told I was too young to catch them as I was protected. Antibodies and all that. I wound up in a hospital for weeks. I was almost dead. I'm lucky I wasn't blinded and thank goodness my pregnant aunt had immunity.

I feel for you all with little ones right now. Heck, I fear for our elderly and immune compromised. That child in that pool wasn't the first child I had seen with chicken pox where someone drug the kids out of the house when they were still contagious. Prior to the outbreak nothing much you can do I understand that.

As far as disease being eradicated I so know looking back at polio and other awful diseases I didn't see those in my life time. I pray we won't see them again.

 

[mimimama5]

Wow, what a thread! Im going to weigh in here, as this is a topic very near and dear to my heart. Im on the anti-vaccines until proven safe side of this debate. here is why.....
When Baby Jac was 8 weeks old he went to the ER for coughing fits, so hard and long in duration that he would turn blue and go limp in my arms. Over the next 2 months, Jac was hospitized 2 more times for a few days at a time, and tested repeatedly for RSV. he was negative for RSV, but still coughed and had to percussion therapy and suctioning to clear his airways. It was diagnosed as repiratory distress, not pneumonia ( clear on Xray) but crackling via stethescope. Jac was seen by his pediatritian or hospital 13 times in those 4 months, all the while I was being told that he has was just a respiratory distress baby, nothing could be done to ease it. At his 4 month old checkup he was given his first round of vaccinations, he had missed his 2 month set, as he was ill at the time, and wasnt showing too much illness at his 4 month checkup. My beautiful baby boy died in his crib less than 48 hrs after those vaccinations. Seeminly with no symptoms. It wasnt SIDS that took my child, it was an undiagnosed case of whooping cough, coupled with the vaccination against the same disease. I suggest adding that to "the scare book". There is one thing more heartbreaking than watching your happy beautiful baby go through a horrible illness, and not be able to get treatment because no one will diagnose him, and that is burying your baby because you were assured that it was safe for him to have a vaccine. I know this is harsh, and very much, my personal opinion, but I make no apology. I lost my child. My 2 subsequent babies were not vaccinated, and they are happy healthy smart 3 and 4 year olds now. I will be taking an exemption to put them in public school, do you dare tell me that my "religious exemption" is an excuse?

 

[reportertype]

My cousin is autistic most likely due to vaxs, Maybe you would rather your brother be autistic but would he?Many people today are not vax and they are neither dead or have gotten a disease.Would you have your breast removed just so breast cancer never hits you?Same difference in my mind.

I don't believe vaccines have a thing to do with autism; I consider a hogwash conspiracy theory. Just my opinion. And some people do remove breasts if they have a high risk of breast cancer. Not getting vaccines, if the numbers of people who don't keeps growing, will put everyone at higher risk.

Obviously, those who believe in the connection can and will make their own decisions. It won't do any good to debate that; you either believe or you don't.

 

[hoppyfrog]

Wow, what a thread! Im going to weigh in here, as this is a topic very near and dear to my heart. <snip>

I am very sorry your baby died. I wish the docs had been able to diagnose him correctly so he could have been treated effectively. That is a tragedy.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I'm in Northern California and after school being in session for a month, we've already had 2 confirmed whooping cough cases at my kid's middle school. All my kids are vaccinated and will be getting boosters next month for whooping cough.

After a flu shot made me horribly sick 10 years ago, I've never gotten another, but I did get Influenza B about 2 years ago and I can't ever remember being that sick. My doctor told me it wasn't the strain that was vaccinated against anyhow, so a vaccine wouldn't have helped. Because that one is such a crap shoot I don't bother.

As a cervical cancer survivor I do plan on getting my children vaccinated against HPV and with my FIL, being a polio survivor with a useless right arm due to polio, I'm pretty pro-vaccines. My nephew has autism and everyone blamed the vaccines until my sister inlaw's other nephew, who wasn't vaccinated also turned up with autism. Turns out it's genetic in her family. My best friend is a doctor and has a son w/autism. She researched the autism connection exhaustively and while she put her daughter on an alternative vaccination schedule, she says that there is nothing in anything reputable she's read that convinces her that vaccines cause autism. She always jokes that when patients reference Jenny McCarthy as any sort of authority on autism and vaccines she wants to scream. She works at UCSF and is pretty aggressively involved in the autism/vaccine debate since her son was diagnosed.

Having said all that, if someone would rather expose their kid to disease, what do I care, my kids and myself are up to date with our vaccinations. It's a free country, knock yourself out! As much as I believe in vaccinations, I'm even more pro parents deciding for themselves what is best for their children. The few people I know who didn't vaccinate, didn't do so lightly, so obviously they felt extremely compelled and I think they should have that right. Even if I disagree with it.

 

[hoppyfrog]

Im on the anti-vaccines until proven safe side of this debate.

One thing that's important to remember is that any kind of medical intervention comes with risks.

No scientist or medical professional is going to say that vaccines are not without risk.

We are never going to have vaccines that are riskless.

However, vaccines have been proven safe for most people.

In terms of pertussis, I have found this site to be very helpful in addressing risks:

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Whooping-Cough.aspx

They also link to the CDC pages which have more information about who should not be vaccinated and about vaccine risks.

It is interesting and unfortunate that "In 1934, more than 265,000 cases of pertussis were reported in the U.S. with nearly 8,000 associated deaths." (nvic.org)

It's hard to look at a stat like that and not see that the whooping cough vaccine has saved many, many lives.