Calif. whooping cough: 9 dead, infections on rise

[hoppyfrog]

Having said all that, if someone would rather expose their kid to disease, what do I care, my kids and myself are up to date with our vaccinations. It's a free country, knock yourself out!

I totally agree with your post except for this last paragraph: if an unvaccinated person catches whooping cough and only he/she suffers through it, that would be one thing.

But that ill person ALSO can pass the disease onto others, many of whom could not be vaccinated for medical reasons, such as having leukemia or AIDS.

Personally I am NOT one of the "it's a free country so do what you want" types. Our actions have a profound effect on those around us. We need to take others into consideration when we make decisions and take actions. None of us are islands; we all live in community with each other.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I totally agree with your post except for this last paragraph: if an unvaccinated person catches whooping cough and only he/she suffers through it, that would be one thing.

But that ill person ALSO can pass the disease onto others, many of whom could not be vaccinated for medical reasons, such as having leukemia or AIDS.

Personally I am NOT one of the "it's a free country so do what you want" types. Our actions have a profound effect on those around us. We need to take others into consideration when we make decisions and take actions. None of us are islands; we all live in community with each other.

Happy, I actually just edited that last sentence as you were posting! I agree with you to a certain extent, but I get a little leary of the gov't reach extending THAT far. It's already pretty high pressured...most pediatric offices around here just flat out refuse to see kids whose parent's won't vaccinate and the schools make them jump through hoops. The *likelihood* of an unvaccinated, disease ridden child jumping around an AIDS patient is probably pretty low (and I live in the crunchiest county in CA, if not the country lol). But trust, me, I'm very PRO vaccines and having relatives/close friends with autistic children does not dissuade me. But again, when it comes to free choice, I do find the idea of a gov't forced vaccination program pretty scary.

 

[hoppyfrog]

Happy, I actually just edited that last sentence as you were posting! I agree with you to a certain extent, but I get a little leary of the gov't reach extending THAT far. It's already pretty high pressured...most pediatric offices around here just flat out refuse to see kids whose parent's won't vaccinate and the schools make them jump through hoops. The *likelihood* of an unvaccinated, disease ridden child jumping around an AIDS patient is probably pretty low (and I live in the crunchiest county in CA, if not the country lol). But trust, me, I'm very PRO vaccines and having relatives/close friends with autistic children does not dissuade me. But again, when it comes to free choice, I do find the idea of a gov't forced vaccination program pretty scary.

LOL!

Well, I have never said that I favor a government forced vaccination program! I really, really don't want anyone to read that into what I posted. <shudder>

My point was that when we make decisions that we THINK are "individual," we are actually making decisions that heavily affect those around us.

My two oldest kids (girls) are 20 and 17. They had chicken pox when they were young. The one came down with them just before we were to go for a long weekend with another family to the Big City. The one with chicken pox wasn't all that sick, actually. I mentioned to the dr. that we'd probably go on the trip anyhow. Oh, boy! He didn't like that at all. He pointed out how we could be on public transportation or at a museum and she could come in contact with someone with a compromised immune system, transmitting to that person a disease that could be fatal.

Oops. He was so right. And we didn't go.

Shortly after, our other DD caught them. Her case was much, much worse. Bad fever. <shudder again>

When our last kid (now 13) was born, the chicken pox vaccine became available. After seeing how our one daughter had suffered through such a bad case, I couldn't get that needle into his arm fast enough.

Hoppy

 

[JBean]

I totally agree with your post except for this last paragraph: if an unvaccinated person catches whooping cough and only he/she suffers through it, that would be one thing.

But that ill person ALSO can pass the disease onto others, many of whom could not be vaccinated for medical reasons, such as having leukemia or AIDS.

Personally I am NOT one of the "it's a free country so do what you want" types. Our actions have a profound effect on those around us. We need to take others into consideration when we make decisions and take actions. None of us are islands; we all live in community with each other.

I concur Hops, in addition to those with medically compromised immune systems, there are people that are either too young or too old to be vaccinated that would be compromised as well. I'd hate to think my newborn would catch pertussis because a toddler was not vacinated.
We have a J-Lo PSA here addressing this outbreak of pertussis that is good because they play the cough so it is more readily identifiable to parents.
It seems like this whooping cough epidemic has been building steam here in CA for many years. Even when my grown chidlren were little, there was already an increased outbreak of pertussis that we young mothers were warned about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2VJIeCzKD4

 

[hoppyfrog]

One of my good friends recently treated her kids and grandkids to a cool vacation to celebrate her wedding anniversary. They all met up at Yellowstone National Park/Jackson Hole WY for a week. The youngest in the group was only two months old, had some vaccinations, but didn't yet have full immunity against whooping cough. So all the adults had whooping cough boosters before the trip. Now that, my friends, is a great example of taking others' needs into consideration.

 

[hoppyfrog]

This thread has really made me think that I need to ask my dr. about whooping cough boosters for DH and me.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Regarding incidence of illness afte receiving vaccines:

My heart goes out and I send condolences to the poster who lost her dear baby boy. I am surprised to read that doctors are somehow unable to diagnose whooping cough?

I also want to assure everyone that making a report of a communicable disease is no problem at all. Doctor's offices do it ALL the time. There is no consequence to the doctor for reporting it, and it IS a violation of state law to not report it, so why would any doctor's office avoid reporting? It does not make sense.

Many diseases are reportable. Google your state and "reportable communicable diseases" and you will come up with a list. Many are STDs, otheres are the childhood diseases. Some may even surprise you.

I used to give a whole lot of flu shots during the season. People would ask me "Won't I get the flu from this? One time my (brother, sister, aunt, friend) did get sick right after getting the flu shot!"

My answer went like this: Think of 5 million people in the U.S. Today, right now. A certain percentage of them are very healthy. Another percentage of them are not. Say, 1%. Matter of fact, they are going to get sick within the next few days. No matter what. They are just going to get sick.

Now suppose these people all get a flu shot today. Don't you think that those who get sick tomorrow or the next day are going to blame it on having gotten that flu shot? Of course, they will. Even though if they had not received a flu shot, a certain percentage of that 5 million people would have come down sick.

Did the flu shot really make them sick? Probably not - especially when it has been shown in CONTROLLED STUDIES that the flu shot doesn't make people sick.

This is why CONTROLLED STUDIES are done. To eliminate the factor of coincidence.

But I do know how difficult it is to accept coincidence as an explanation when one is looking for an answer to the "Why".

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wow, what a thread! Im going to weigh in here, as this is a topic very near and dear to my heart. Im on the anti-vaccines until proven safe side of this debate. here is why.....
When Baby Jac was 8 weeks old he went to the ER for coughing fits, so hard and long in duration that he would turn blue and go limp in my arms. Over the next 2 months, Jac was hospitized 2 more times for a few days at a time, and tested repeatedly for RSV. he was negative for RSV, but still coughed and had to percussion therapy and suctioning to clear his airways. It was diagnosed as repiratory distress, not pneumonia ( clear on Xray) but crackling via stethescope. Jac was seen by his pediatritian or hospital 13 times in those 4 months, all the while I was being told that he has was just a respiratory distress baby, nothing could be done to ease it. At his 4 month old checkup he was given his first round of vaccinations, he had missed his 2 month set, as he was ill at the time, and wasnt showing too much illness at his 4 month checkup. My beautiful baby boy died in his crib less than 48 hrs after those vaccinations. Seeminly with no symptoms. It wasnt SIDS that took my child, it was an undiagnosed case of whooping cough, coupled with the vaccination against the same disease. I suggest adding that to "the scare book". There is one thing more heartbreaking than watching your happy beautiful baby go through a horrible illness, and not be able to get treatment because no one will diagnose him, and that is burying your baby because you were assured that it was safe for him to have a vaccine. I know this is harsh, and very much, my personal opinion, but I make no apology. I lost my child. My 2 subsequent babies were not vaccinated, and they are happy healthy smart 3 and 4 year olds now. I will be taking an exemption to put them in public school, do you dare tell me that my "religious exemption" is an excuse?

I am so sorry for your loss :hug:

 

[butwhatif?]

My DD's school sent home a letter a couple of weeks ago alerting us that a child at the school had been dxed with whooping cough, and to be on the look out for any symptoms in our own children.


My DD has had flu-like symptoms for the past few days, and last night she hopped into bed with me, which is when I noticed her cough ....It was a really dry cough and kept waking her (and me) up throughout the night..

I kept her home from school today, and will take her to see the doc, but she is fully vaccinated.

Just came across this video from last year, that shows both sides of the vaccine debate.

[video=youtube;Q75W6hcWkDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q75W6hcWkDA&feature=related[/video]

 

[byo]

When is a baby "fully immunized" against pertussis? Is it after they get their third DPT shot?

 

[Snarky247]

My 5 year old daughter has autism. She is my 3rd child & I never thought twice about vaccinating. When Fiona was about 4-5 mos old, she received 5 vax at once. IMHO, within 24 hours, she was gone emotionally. No affect, no interest, no interaction. By 8 mos, I was begging my doctor to refer us for a screening so we could get a dx & begin therapy but he wouldn't listen to me for another 10 mos. Sure enough. at 18 mos, she was dx as a 48 on the CARS scale (profoundly autistic).

I do not advocate NOT vaccinating. Not by a long shot. I believe that it was a combination of genetics and possibly the amount of vax she received. (Sorry about the long shot pun. Seriously). If I could do it all again, I would have listened to the voice in my head & asked to spread out the series but I don't waste alot of time on things I can't control. When I was asked by my son & DIL if they should vaccinate my grandson, my advice was yes, if they felt comfortable but if they could spread them out, do it.

Long story short...I think Jenny McCarthy was right - about her child. I believe I was right in the path I chose for Fiona but that path wouldn't work for another kid with autism necessarily. I think the parents on YouTube who have videos of their kid behaving "normally" a day before receiving their vax & autistic days later are right about their kids.(BTW...We are fortunate in that after years of constant floortime with my daughter, she is now pretty much off the spectrum, in a mainstreamed kindergarten class & reading at a 3.3 grade level.)
*climbs down off soapbox*

 

[mom2six]

My beautiful baby boy died in his crib less than 48 hrs after those vaccinations. Seeminly with no symptoms. It wasnt SIDS that took my child, it was an undiagnosed case of whooping cough, coupled with the vaccination against the same disease.

I am so so so sorry for your loss!

 

[mimimama5]

I agree with so many of the posters here. One size fits all medicine just isnt possible. Vaccinations are no exception. Parents need to be educated about the risks and informed consent need to be given. I know that if I had been supplied with that information, things would be very different for me today. I do think vaccines, when effective, can help protect children and adults from dangerous diseases. I just know that some vaccines are not at all safe for some children. But what about titering? If you were offered blood tests to check your levels of immunity to a particular disease would you do it? I believe I would want to know if myself and my children are immune, even the ones with no vaccination history could have a natural immunity. I think in some situations, titering would be a great tool. The pro-vaccine movement wouldnt feel threatened by my children who are non vaccinated if it could be proven that they were naturally immune.
To all the posters who expressed their condolences, I thank you whole heartedly. Its kind words, and sharing my son's story that have helped me move out of the darkest kind of grief

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When you refuse to vaccinate your child, you are putting your child and other people's children (who are too young or too sick to receive the vaccination) at risk for diseases like polio, whooping cough, measles, and possibly, even death. Even if you do believe that vaccines cause autism, wouldn't you rather your child have autism than spend their life in an iron lung paralyzed because of polio? The First World has gotten rid of a lot of horrible diseases that were prevalent in the early 20th century--let's not bring them back because of Jenny McCarthy.

 

[hoppyfrog]

I agree with so many of the posters here. One size fits all medicine just isnt possible. Vaccinations are no exception. Parents need to be educated about the risks and informed consent need to be given. I know that if I had been supplied with that information, things would be very different for me today. I do think vaccines, when effective, can help protect children and adults from dangerous diseases. I just know that some vaccines are not at all safe for some children. But what about titering? If you were offered blood tests to check your levels of immunity to a particular disease would you do it? I believe I would want to know if myself and my children are immune, even the ones with no vaccination history could have a natural immunity. I think in some situations, titering would be a great tool. The pro-vaccine movement wouldnt feel threatened by my children who are non vaccinated if it could be proven that they were naturally immune.
To all the posters who expressed their condolences, I thank you whole heartedly. Its kind words, and sharing my son's story that have helped me move out of the darkest kind of grief

I have wondered about titers.

Do you have any idea how much that costs? I am clueless about that.

 

[mimimama5]

I have wondered about titers.

Do you have any idea how much that costs? I am clueless about that.

I know most universities will offer the testing for about 25.00 per test. I dont know if thats standard in doctors offices though, but I would think it may be able to be covered by insurance if the doctor orders the testing?

 

[Snarky247]

When you refuse to vaccinate your child, you are putting your child and other people's children (who are too young or too sick to receive the vaccination) at risk for diseases like polio, whooping cough, measles, and possibly, even death. Even if you do believe that vaccines cause autism, wouldn't you rather your child have autism than spend their life in an iron lung paralyzed because of polio? The First World has gotten rid of a lot of horrible diseases that were prevalent in the early 20th century--let's not bring them back because of Jenny McCarthy.

All due respect, but I don't recall being given a choice - "autism OR polio".

 

[LCoastMom]

In all honesty, it wasn't that big a deal during the day. They literally would only cough a few times a day, but when an episode hit, whew boy! The youngest was my main concern because she was so little. She would turn blue during an episode. I promptly turned her upside down, every time, and whacked her back like you do when you Heimlich an infant. She slept with us because night times are the worst and I had to be there when she coughed. The other kids, no big deal. They went to school, because they weren't diagnosed (by the time I figured out what they had they'd been in school 3 weeks anyway).

The danger of pertussis is that the mucus is inhaled into the lungs on inspiration after a cough and then pneumonia develops. I made sure that wouldn't happen with the baby by making sure she drained before turning her over again, monitored her carefully and kept my infant stethoscope handy so I'd be able to get her seen at first sign of pneumonia. It's not that hard to hear pneumonia in the lungs, even if you are completely inexperienced. A healthy lung whispers upon inhalation/exhalation. Pneumonia crackles like crinkling wax paper or plastic.

Here are a couple interesting articles:
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/sep/07/whooping-cough-vaccine-working/ -- notice the one doctor who doesn't believe the statistics are accurate because there is "probably more protection from the vaccine then these numbers bear out..." ??

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article684270.ece -- This is an older article from England, but discusses the problem with lack of diagnosis. This isn't only a concern with pertussis, but with all illnesses which have corresponding vaccines. Doctors become reluctant to diagnose, due to the requisite paperwork, effect on statistics or plain lack of experience diagnosing these illnesses.

I gotta tell you, you can't always hear pneumonia! Last fall I developed a headache that wouldn't quit - and I felt short of breath - I finally took my blood pressure and found it was very high - because the swine flu was so bad here I refused to go to the ER, (there was a 12 hour wait for really sick peeps - and I wasn't sick IMO) instead waiting for a routine doctor's appt I had coming up in 2 weeks and just took it very easy!

That doctor's office told me to get my backside to the ER (no thank you) so I instead went to urgent care where the doctor discovered I was moving no air in my lungs, due to pneumonia. I had not been sick, had no cough! No fever! (But couldn't put three words together to make a short sentence because my blood O2 was so low.) So don't depend on hearing rales (wet, crackly lung noises) to decide if someone has a chest infection!

My DD's doctor assured her, her healthy baby has nothing to worry about from vaccines! :furious: But could die from the disease. He claims there are signs of autism in infants before they are immunized! (ummhmm) I don't want to tell people what to do - but don't wait for your kids doctor to tell you what is right to do with your kids! Read and educate yourself - fore warned, is fore armed.

 

[LCoastMom]

My 5 year old daughter has autism. She is my 3rd child & I never thought twice about vaccinating. When Fiona was about 4-5 mos old, she received 5 vax at once. IMHO, within 24 hours, she was gone emotionally. No affect, no interest, no interaction. By 8 mos, I was begging my doctor to refer us for a screening so we could get a dx & begin therapy but he wouldn't listen to me for another 10 mos. Sure enough. at 18 mos, she was dx as a 48 on the CARS scale (profoundly autistic).

I do not advocate NOT vaccinating. Not by a long shot. I believe that it was a combination of genetics and possibly the amount of vax she received. (Sorry about the long shot pun. Seriously). If I could do it all again, I would have listened to the voice in my head & asked to spread out the series but I don't waste alot of time on things I can't control. When I was asked by my son & DIL if they should vaccinate my grandson, my advice was yes, if they felt comfortable but if they could spread them out, do it.

Long story short...I think Jenny McCarthy was right - about her child. I believe I was right in the path I chose for Fiona but that path wouldn't work for another kid with autism necessarily. I think the parents on YouTube who have videos of their kid behaving "normally" a day before receiving their vax & autistic days later are right about their kids.(BTW...We are fortunate in that after years of constant floortime with my daughter, she is now pretty much off the spectrum, in a mainstreamed kindergarten class & reading at a 3.3 grade level.)
*climbs down off soapbox*

Thank you for sharing this, this is what I asked my DD to do with her DD, but after talking with her doctor she let her have the full series a few weeks ago at 2 months. After he convinced her it was better to get less pokes. To the best of my knowledge needle pokes don't cause autism, vaccines might.

 

[Salem]

Snarky - I really like the idea of spreading the vaccinations out over a period of time instead of giving 5 shots at once. I like this for a number of reasons, but mostly because everyone acts differently to any med.

I know I never react, as a adult, like others do and the Docs ALWAYS prescribe meds that are too strong for me - so I cut them in half, even antibiotics.

Slamming a little baby with 5 or 6 shots at a time just shouldn't be done, for any reason. Docs should think about that......

Salem