Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[otto]

No, we don't know where they are looking, but if they ask the public to look at well sites, farms, and fields, we can safely assume something in the evidence at that time, lead them to make that specific a request.

Unless, of course, it's all a clever ruse to throw off the real perps in order to protect their star witness, who just happens to be one of the victims secretly being kept in witness protection. I prefer to interpret facts, based on probabilities and likelihoods though...

I suspect if LE started searching lakes and rivers with divers over and over, we'd know about it.

BBM

Who is, or would be, in "witness protection" to nail the accused to the wall. There is enough evidence without bodies.

Who is going to publish information about police investigations related to a mass murder?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

BBM

Who is, or would be, in "witness protection" to nail the accused to the wall. There is enough evidence without bodies.

Who is going to publish information about police investigations related to a mass murder?

That was tongue in cheek referencing an earlier discussion where someone put out there the notion that maybe NO was alive and well in witness protection.

I think most MSM outlets would publish information about police investigations like this one... such as just recently when all MSM reported LE were in Mexico searching and working with local authorities in relation to this case. It's not forbidden.

 

[LoriMcA]

Okay so I did a bit of snooping today....found some interesting things....IMO

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=395534

This news video at about the 55 second mark & on from there...

The wanted/captured poster shown in the video states "using the ALIAS of MKH *shortened by me* (same DOB)"

I don't recall ever seeing that the suspect had used his own birthdate with the stolen identity? I had always assumed that he used the birthdate of MKH? Just rather interesting IMOO.

Again further down on that poster...I noticed a file # for Richmond. Did a search through Richmond court files & found nothing *I assumed after not finding anything it was probably a police file # rather than court*....

So instead did a search under Garland...lots of them in the system...but found him...

https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/esearch/esearchHome.do

(This is the British Columbia Ministry of Justice - Court Services Online)

I searched Traffic/Criminal - By Participants' Name *using only the last name* & found him on page 2 of the 5 pages of results.

There are 9 charges there from Oct/Nov 1992 *I'm assuming Calgary/Airdrie charges because of the date although this shows as Richmond Provincial Court* they use the middle name Robert. As of July 16 1999 all 9 charges are referred to as 'SP' (Special Disposition or Decision). Now, I'm just assuming here but would that be when the charges would go back to Calgary? File # 42183

There are 2 charges there from October 2 1998 ...offences occurring in Richmond BC with the middle name John. File # 41250 (in the wanted/captured poster it does say his middle names are Robert & John)

It is noted that he has 4 aliases including DG...DRG...DJG & MKH.

There is one charge from 1992 that I found to be VERY interesting: 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 353(1)(b) possessing automobile master key


I was like....whoa! Had not heard of that one previously? Had of course read about the break in tools but not that one in particular. Interesting anyways. JMOO

If I've posted anything in this post I shouldn't I do understand if it is deleted...but they are public docs/information available by search through the BC Justice *government* website.

 

[goodasgold]

No, we don't know where they are looking, but if they ask the public to look at well sites, farms, and fields, we can safely assume something in the evidence at that time, lead them to make that specific a request.

Unless, of course, it's all a clever ruse to throw off the real perps in order to protect their star witness, who just happens to be one of the victims secretly being kept in witness protection. I prefer to interpret facts, based on probabilities and likelihoods though...

I suspect if LE started searching lakes and rivers with divers over and over, we'd know about it. Just like we found out about the investigation in Mexico...

Just brainstorming ideas here, no need to make in fun of me and mock me. I try to keep hope for NO because every time i look at my 5 year old Nathan who is in my pic my heart breaks for the O Briens.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Just brainstorming ideas here, no need to make in fun of me and mock me. I try to keep hope for NO because every time i look at my 5 year old Nathan who is in my pic my heart breaks for the O Briens.

No mocking intended, just a tongue in cheek demonstration of the difference between likely and unlikely, based on factual reasoning. Any scenario is possible, but without the facts like quotes from LE, actions of those involved, or credible reporting of evidence, then we are left to debate about probabilities.

Everything I write could be completely wrong, and I will be the first to say good point if I'm in error or haven't thought something through. Perhaps I should put that in the signature area... lol...

 

[Tinkerbel1]

And the third murder charge is a conspiracy that involves the court? A five year old boy is taken away from his parents, or are you saying that they are in on this conspiracy?

In 2012, of the 108 people in Canada considered for the program, only 30 were placed at a cost of 9 million dollars.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/p...ection-program/article6190969/?service=mobile

Woah! I'm at a complete loss as to what you're going on about here? Who said anything about a conspiracy? Must everything be taken as a direct slur against the subject being commented on? Where is the conspiracy in putting a child that has just been through a traumatic, very likely psychologically damaging event in a protective environment for his own safety? Of course his parents would know where he is!! This case is not solved. If NO is alive, then I'm sure LE would want to do everything humanly possible to keep him safe until this is over and all facts are known.
As far as the conspiracy theory you think I have regarding the court and NO's parents, some parameters of the W.P.P. were posted in comment #6 by 'goodasgold' I believe.
In 2012 there were 108 people in Canada considered for the program...in 2014, there may be 1 5-year old boy in need of special precautionary protection (written up however the courts and LE would like to write it up) until this case is closed.
In 2012 the costs for each person in the WPP program is $ 300,000...even by being overly generous and allowing that figure to be doubled for 2014... it's still only $ 600,000
IMO, NO is worth it.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

BBM

Who is, or would be, in "witness protection" to nail the accused to the wall. There is enough evidence without bodies.

Who is going to publish information about police investigations related to a mass murder?

There is one suspect that LE believes is responsible for the murders. What if??? ... just suspend disbelief for a second here...and imagine if there was a <5% chance that there is someone else out there that was involved in even the smallest way as an aid to DG? I don't think it's an unreasonable thought to think that LE may want to put NO in a protective place until the case is over. Maybe 'Witness Protection Program" is not the proper nomenclature for this, maybe it's just "Precautionary Protection". Just a thought.

 

[LoisLane]

Police recently gave a statement that they are still looking for the bodies, but there are no photos of their searches since the arrest (other than the road closure). The media is not chasing around documenting everything police do as it's forbidden to publish police investigation activity. We don't know where police are searching. The road closure had nothing to do with well sites, or farm properties.

I have a question... Is it true that publishing police investigation activity is forbidden? Why have we seen photo's of the inside of the Liknes garage with marker 14 placed? That photo appears to be taken from the inside of the garage, the photographer who took that shot was standing with his back to the back of the garage from inside the garage. Who took that photo and why would that be allowed?

 

[news.talk]

Woah! I'm at a complete loss as to what you're going on about here? Who said anything about a conspiracy? Must everything be taken as a direct slur against the subject being commented on? Where is the conspiracy in putting a child that has just been through a traumatic, very likely psychologically damaging event in a protective environment for his own safety? Of course his parents would know where he is!! This case is not solved. If NO is alive, then I'm sure LE would want to do everything humanly possible to keep him safe until this is over and all facts are known.
As far as the conspiracy theory you think I have regarding the court and NO's parents, some parameters of the W.P.P. were posted in comment #6 by 'goodasgold' I believe.
In 2012 there were 108 people in Canada considered for the program...in 2014, there may be 1 5-year old boy in need of special precautionary protection (written up however the courts and LE would like to write it up) until this case is closed.
In 2012 the costs for each person in the WPP program is $ 300,000...even by being overly generous and allowing that figure to be doubled for 2014... it's still only $ 600,000
IMO, NO is worth it.

How does the accused's rights factor in here? How does one get charged with a murder that hasn't even occurred in your scenario?

What can a traumatized 5 year old child offer that could stand up against cross examination, that would allow for all this to take place and be considered worth the gross miscarriage of justice?

If this was at all plausible, I ask again for you to please provide some reference from ANY case that allowed the circumventing of laws and the rights of the accused.

 

[LoisLane]

I have a question... Is it true that publishing police investigation activity is forbidden? Why have we seen photo's of the inside of the Liknes garage with marker 14 placed? That photo appears to be taken from the inside of the garage, the photographer who took that shot was standing with his back to the back of the garage from inside the garage. Who took that photo and why would that be allowed?

Sorry!! I just found the photo and I was way off... it is from the side of the house and not from inside the garage. I always thought it was an interior shot and the drip marks were close to the wall of the garage as in someone taking out the leaky garbage bag dripping past a parked car. I won't even go there!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Never thought of it that way... poor crown and whoever is going to be charged with fraud and sued by DG for the false accusations etc. You can't hide someone, and then charge someone else for their murder.

According to 'goodasgold`s Post #6..." In the W.P.P. LE can fake an amber alert or even death....."

Here is some additional information regarding Canada's F.W.P.P.

Q: Is relocation with a name change the only option available to witnesses requiring protection?

A: No. The FWPP is not an "all or nothing" program. The emergency provisions under Section 6(2) of the WPPA provide Witness Protection Coordinators the flexibility to provide a range of protective measures. When deemed appropriate, the use of immediate, short-term measures allow investigators and coordinators to respond quickly to potential threats. Emergency protective measures have been used in many cases where a witness either refuses protective measures or is deemed unsuitable for the FWPP.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fwpp-pfpt/qa-qr-eng.htm

As far as DG suing is concerned, can he do that when he's in jail for 2 counts of 1st degree murder? I have no idea? IMO, if I were the one signing on the dotted line to put such measure in place to convict a suspect for a crime like this, I, nor I doubt my superiors would have a big problem with that. JMO

IMO, LE should be able to hide someone (modified WPP) and charge the suspect with their fake murder (perhaps the 3rd one wasn't actually a murder, but was presented as having died due to neglect, etc) in order to solve the known murders. Perhaps the suspect gets scared about being accused of the 3rd and confesses to the first 2? The suspect wouldn't be 'convicted' of the faked murder, so why can't LE use this tactic to get the suspect to say that 'he had nothing to do with the murder of the child", in order to get a confession out of him for the 2 adults. There are various questioning techniques in interrogations; why not different techniques to catch a killer? Charges can be dropped.

 

[news.talk]

Sorry!! I just found the photo and I was way off... it is from the side of the house and not from inside the garage. I always thought it was an interior shot and the drip marks were close to the wall of the garage as in someone taking out the leaky garbage bag dripping past a parked car. I won't even go there!

Ya, I was wondering if you had a super secret photo we haven't seen!
While photogs like to *try* and get shots beyond the crime tape, for the most part, they are bound by laws that prohibit such acts. They use zoom lenses that may appear to be shot in the crime scene.

 

[LoisLane]

How does the accused's rights factor in here? How does one get charged with a murder that hasn't even occurred in your scenario?

What can a traumatized 5 year old child offer that could stand up against cross examination, that would allow for all this to take place and be considered worth the gross miscarriage of justice?

If this was at all plausible, I ask again for you to please provide some reference from ANY case that allowed the circumventing of laws and the rights of the accused.

I am going to bounce off the comment as to the cross examination of NO (if he was able to do so). Is it true that his testimony wouldn't hold up because of his trauma and age? Why couldn't DG have realized that and left the innocent boy alone? I am sure DG knows the justice system, he should have realized that the boy would not be able to identify him, even in the split second that he learned NO was in the home. If they were sleeping the house was probably dark and NO would not have made out his face or be able to identify him.

 

[news.talk]

According to 'goodasgold`s Post #6..." In the W.P.P. LE can fake an amber alert or even death....."

Here is some additional information regarding Canada's F.W.P.P.

Q: Is relocation with a name change the only option available to witnesses requiring protection?

A: No. The FWPP is not an "all or nothing" program. The emergency provisions under Section 6(2) of the WPPA provide Witness Protection Coordinators the flexibility to provide a range of protective measures. When deemed appropriate, the use of immediate, short-term measures allow investigators and coordinators to respond quickly to potential threats. Emergency protective measures have been used in many cases where a witness either refuses protective measures or is deemed unsuitable for the FWPP.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fwpp-pfpt/qa-qr-eng.htm

As far as DG suing is concerned, can he do that when he's in jail for 2 counts of 1st degree murder? I have no idea? IMO, if I were the one signing on the dotted line to put such measure in place to convict a suspect for a crime like this, I, nor I doubt my superiors would have a big problem with that. JMO

IMO, LE should be able to hide someone (modified WPP) and charge the suspect with their fake murder (perhaps the 3rd one wasn't actually a murder, but was presented as having died due to neglect, etc) in order to solve the known murders. Perhaps the suspect gets scared about being accused of the 3rd and confesses to the first 2? The suspect wouldn't be 'convicted' of the faked murder, so why can't LE use this tactic to get the suspect to say that 'he had nothing to do with the murder of the child", in order to get a confession out of him for the 2 adults. There are various questioning techniques in interrogations; why not different techniques to catch a killer? Charges can be dropped.

The case is past the interrogation stage. The Crown have laid charges and it is before the courts.

I didn't see in the link you quoted where it says they are allowed to fake a death, bring fake murder charges, circumvent the rights of the accused and rules of the court.

 

[news.talk]

I am going to bounce off the comment as to the cross examination of NO (if he was able to do so). Is it true that his testimony wouldn't hold up because of his trauma and age? Why couldn't DG have realized that and left the innocent boy alone? I am sure DG knows the justice system, he should have realized that the boy would not be able to identify him, even in the split second that he learned NO was in the home. If they were sleeping the house was probably dark and NO would not have made out his face or be able to identify him.

Who knows what goes through the minds of killers? Why does anyone kill innocent children? Why do they get used as human shields?

Sadly, only one that has committed such an atrocious act can answer that.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

How does the accused's rights factor in here? How does one get charged with a murder that hasn't even occurred in your scenario?

What can a traumatized 5 year old child offer that could stand up against cross examination, that would allow for all this to take place and be considered worth the gross miscarriage of justice?

If this was at all plausible, I ask again for you to please provide some reference from ANY case that allowed the circumventing of laws and the rights of the accused.

[modsnip] I am simply agreeing with 'goodasgold's theory that perhaps NO may be alive and in a modified form of W.P.P. for his safety until the case is closed. As GAG stated in post #6, "in the WPP, LE can fake amber alerts and even death" to help them in solving the case.
Maybe we're using the term "Witness Protection Plan" too loosely here for you. We're simply talking about a "precautionary protective custody" for a period of time until the case is solved/closed. NO would not be a witness. The thought is just too keep the little guy safe until absolutely all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed for his safety.
Regardless if it's plausible to you or not, IMO means just that...In My Opinion. Despite all that, a precedent wasn't a precedent until it became a precedent. Sometimes we come up with new ideas and new ways of doing things. We call that progress.

 

[news.talk]

I think this is going a bit too far IMO. Don't you have a crime to solve? I am simply agreeing with 'goodasgold's theory that perhaps NO may be alive and in a modified form of W.P.P. for his safety until the case is closed. As GAG stated in post #6, "in the WPP, LE can fake amber alerts and even death" to help them in solving the case.
Maybe we're using the term "Witness Protection Plan" too loosely here for you. We're simply talking about a "precautionary protective custody" for a period of time until the case is solved/closed. NO would not be a witness. The thought is just too keep the little guy safe until absolutely all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed for his safety.
Regardless if it's plausible to you or not, IMO means just that...In My Opinion. Despite all that, a precedent wasn't a precedent until it became a precedent. Sometimes we come up with new ideas and new ways of doing things. We call that progress.

It's only progress if it's plausible to begin with.

 

[wendiesan]

Hey Silly Billy.

Just in case you missed it, these threads move so fast, I posted 968 in the last thread with a couple of observations, and a question related to the identity theft question.

I'm curious to know if I was going in the right direction.

 

[LoisLane]

I just came across this article. (Dated July 17, 2014)

Jen told Metro that police haven&#8217;t shared with her the evidence they say gives them confidence that none of the trio, first reported missing June 29, is alive.

"They won&#8217;t tell us, but we do know that it&#8217;s not time for us to lose hope,&#8221; Jen said. &#8220;I can&#8217;t and I won&#8217;t, until we know for sure.&#8221;

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1097044/nathan-obriens-mom-remains-hopeful-her-son-will-come-home/

 

[stan laurel]

one day a water buffalo died and it had to be cut down to move (their head's weigh near 200 lbs). Being that it perished in an awkward place - a muddy slough - where a loader couldn't maneuver it out, it was left to me to make it smaller and moveable. Chainsaws are ok but throw a lot of bone and meat (and I didn't want to spend the rest of the day cleaning bits of hair and grizzel out of the tool), nor did I want to handle a whizzing chain in a difficult standing area. It was too far to run electric for a reciprocating saw, and other saws/cleavers would have taken a long time to use in the slough. In the end I opted for my two sharpest knives to help cut thru the skin and then neck muscle to the spine, which I then cut with larger bolt cutters. The cutters also worked well on tendon to remove legs. It was a quick job.

In a previous thread I mentioned that I once was a slaughterer at a zoo, for those who might be confused of my post.