Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16

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That is an unpleasant picture indeed, but one that is much better in fact than other mental pictures we have been presented with in this case.

Well when I saw the discussion I remembered back at the beginning there had been some talk about possibly going in thru the back.. *I'd have to go look*

I think it was mentioned at some point as well...the deck in front *with the other patio doors over the garage*...If someone had a truck parked in the drive...they could be right under that deck...it would be more obvious tho out in front....using that deck....*I don't even like to think of that picture in my head* :(
 
In the overhead pic posted a couple of posts above, it clearly shows a garage at the end of their rear property, which is separated by land before the house part starts. I think it would be simple, assuming there are in fact 2 garage doors on that detached garage, to back up to that deck in the back. There would definitely have been tire tracks visible though.

ETA: I do notice however, there seems to be a tree, which could potentially be in the way of being able to back up to the back deck of the house from the detached garage at the back.

Actually...there is the garage at the back...at the alley...but right behind/in front? of it...is the extension on the house...which runs behind the attached garage on the house....I'll try and find an overhead that was shown by helicopter...it shows the extension quite well......
 
No one here has said the police are perfect. I've said repeatedly I am critical of police.

But I am not blanket critical, I am critical when it's necessary. For example, I am very critical of the police work in the Laura Babcock and Wayne Millard investigations. It looks as if they had investigated better, Tim Bosma might still be alive and Wayne Millard too. We need answers as to what happened and then action.

I am not, however, critical of the Hamilton police investigation of Tim Bosma's murder because I see nothing to be critical of. For the same reasons, I am not critical of the Liknes investigation -- although I admit I've wondered if they weren't a little slow to check out the Winter Petroleum bankruptcy. But then again, for all I know, they were at the company while they were checking out the estate sale, not after.

When the police screw up, make major mistakes, are incompetent, I am happy to shout it from the rooftops. And, honestly, if they have the wrong guy in jail, have told the public the mystery's solved and let the real murderer go, they have made just about the worst mistakes a police force can make. That is completely incompetent

It's not just "I had a bad day" stuff. Or they did the best they could at the time. It's mistake piled upon mistake piled upon mistake. It means the chacks and balances in the system were ignored -- repeatedly. Heads should roll.

But constantly bringing up the worst miscarriages of justice in Canadian history, when there's no indication the police have done anything wrong -- as there is not in the Liknes case -- is crying wolf. And crying wolf has consequences too.

Yes... I agree completely. When LE is incompetent, I think they are incompetent... and when LE isn't incompetent, I think they are not incompetent.

I wonder how LE is ever found to be incompetent without someone first looking at what they are doing with a critical eye? Comparing early red flags from other cases is only prudent, I would think, even if they are found to be dissimilar.

I'm a big believer of the public's right to know, right to question openly, and right to have answers to those questions. LE obviously needs some form of secrecy to investigate and prosecute criminal acts, but when the secrecy worsens the situation as in the Pickton case, then screaming from the rooftops is far too late to be effective.
 
I'm confused about what you people are talking about when you refer to the pic of NO in the video? I'm not seeing NO anywhere in that video? The small child at the garage (the front garage) in the video, wouldn't that be the younger child who was turning 2, rather than NO?

The small child in the video, in front of the open garage, is a younger Nathan. You made me wonder, so I went to the CTV video of Nathan's memorial and there is a clip of him bowling in his Superhero outfit and also of him riding the Stryder bike. He is wearing the same camouflage pants and a green jacket in both of them. That is what makes me wonder if the clip of KL and CH is 'dated' also, regardless that we are led to believe otherwise.
 
Does anyone remember anything about 'the vehicles' at the crimescene? I recall that LE stated via MSM that all vehicles were accounted for, but I do not recall ever seeing the second vehicle (presumably KL would have had a vehicle). I don't recall seeing it in any of the pictures, nor hearing anything about its getting towed away for examination, etc. If the second vehicle wasn't at the house, then where was it? Where is it?
 
In the overhead pic posted a couple of posts above, it clearly shows a garage at the end of their rear property, which is separated by land before the house part starts. I think it would be simple, assuming there are in fact 2 garage doors on that detached garage, to back up to that deck in the back. There would definitely have been tire tracks visible though.

ETA: I do notice however, there seems to be a tree, which could potentially be in the way of being able to back up to the back deck of the house from the detached garage at the back.

I'm still looking for the overhead video but this is a still from that video...which shows the extension which runs back to the garage...

http://i0.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/55/447/GC140701_Noon_Jenna.jpg?w=670

from this article:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/t...amily-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/
 
I will try to dig up that memorial video to see what you mean; the current video did mention that 2 grandchildren were brought over, and the boy in the video looks to me to be around the age of 2. Is it possible that in NO's memorial video, they could have shown a clip(s) of NO's baby brother? Is it possible that NO's baby brother could have been wearing 'hand-me-downs' from NO? Or do the pics look identical? If so, and the current video has used years' old photographs, that is just really weird??? Isn't it even stated that there was some fresh video?

ETA: There are so many videos that come up when I type in NO memorial video, but none that I have found so far have the pics you are referring to; can someone please post a link? TY!

The small child in the video, in front of the open garage, is a younger Nathan. You made me wonder, so I went to the CTV video of Nathan's memorial and there is a clip of him bowling in his Superhero outfit and also of him riding the Stryder bike. He is wearing the same camouflage pants and a green jacket in both of them. That is what makes me wonder if the clip of KL and CH is 'dated' also, regardless that we are led to believe otherwise.
 
But I believe you are showing a picture of the 'front garage', and not the 'rear garage'? The 'rear garage' appears, from the overhead shot which you posted up above, to NOT be attached to any building, and there appears to be enough space to back up to the back deck.. however, I see there are also a couple of trees, which may or may not be in the way, depending on the size of the actual trunks?

I'm still looking for the overhead video but this is a still from that video...which shows the extension which runs back to the garage...

http://i0.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/55/447/GC140701_Noon_Jenna.jpg?w=670

from this article:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/t...amily-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/
 
I will try to dig up that memorial video to see what you mean; the current video did mention that 2 grandchildren were brought over, and the boy in the video looks to me to be around the age of 2. Is it possible that in NO's memorial video, they could have shown a clip(s) of NO's baby brother? Is it possible that NO's baby brother could have been wearing 'hand-me-downs' from NO? Or do the pics look identical? If so, and the current video has used years' old photographs, that is just really weird??? Isn't it even stated that there was some fresh video?


Try this link... http://globalnews.ca/video/1544880/family-friends-gather-to-say-goodbye-to-nathan-obrien
I also entertained the possibility of hand me down clothes on Nathan's little brother. Although I don't know what the little brother looks like, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to suspect they are very similar in appearances. But either way, it is weird. Why wold they use dated video and pass it off as recent?
 
Oh man, too bad there isn't a way to avoid the advertisements that appear in every video on the MSM sites :(
 
To me they look like 2 separate children.. but regardless, I dont' think the young boy in the current video is from 'that day', because NO was reported to have last been seen in peach colored shorts, and AL in black shorts.. and so why would the younger boy, if it is the younger boy, be dressed for fall? Doesn't make sense, so it must be a video from definitely a different time/day... which is bizarre, considering the words in the article that goes with that video (BBM), seen below. Note the 'closing of the doors of the garage', which would indicate there were 2 doors. But I guess it doesn't make sense that the 'garage sale portion' would be held in the 'back garage' as opposed to the 'front garage'. Just more that doesnt' make sense.

Alvin and Kathy put family first, something evident in a video taken on their last day.

“We were doing the garage sale and two of the grandchildren came over. Alvin very quickly closed the doors to the garage.

Try this link... http://globalnews.ca/video/1544880/family-friends-gather-to-say-goodbye-to-nathan-obrien
I also entertained the possibility of hand me down clothes on Nathan's little brother. Although I don't know what the little brother looks like, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to suspect they are very similar in appearances. But either way, it is weird. Why wold they use dated video and pass it off as recent?
 
But I believe you are showing a picture of the 'front garage', and not the 'rear garage'? The 'rear garage' appears, from the overhead shot which you posted up above, to NOT be attached to any building, and there appears to be enough space to back up to the back deck.. however, I see there are also a couple of trees, which may or may not be in the way, depending on the size of the actual trunks?

Correct...the attached garage & the extension...what I was focusing on was the extension that goes out the back...with 2 trees behind...then behind that the detached garage...
The overhead video showed further back ...right to the alley...which is why I was trying to find it....
Anyways....here is a side view of the house...shows the back corner of the house...then the detached garage beyond *where the trash bags are sitting*:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...n+They+subject+Amber+Alert/9992143/story.html

and I quickly marked this out...
home3.png

ETA: Of course these are approximations...the blue square could extend further to the south...it appears there is a white area *looks a lot like the deck border* on the south side...& from the side view picture...there doesn't 'appear' to be another garage door *on the detached garage* to the backyard...hard to tell ...*if only we had a clearer view around that corner*...
 
So is it a stretch to imagine the detached garage has one door on each end, and that an F150 could back up straight through and out the rear door, up to the back deck? It is difficult to tell in the pic where exactly that tree trunk would be, and I'm not sure if there would be enough space to maneouvre the truck on an angle to the deck. Is it also possible that the back fence may have a gate (it kind of looks like it could be gates as opposed to fixed fencing?) that could potentially be opened to allow a vehicle to back up? One might suspect it would be darker in the back and easier to fill a truck bed back there, but again, there would have been tire tracks too.

Correct...the attached garage & the extension...what I was focusing on was the extension that goes out the back...with 2 trees behind...then behind that the detached garage...
The overhead video showed further back ...right to the alley...which is why I was trying to find it....
Anyways....here is a side view of the house...shows the back corner of the house...then the detached garage beyond *where the trash bags are sitting*:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...n+They+subject+Amber+Alert/9992143/story.html

and I quickly marked this out...
View attachment 60070

ETA: Of course these are approximations...the blue square could extend further to the south...it appears there is a white area *looks a lot like the deck border* on the south side...& from the side view picture...there doesn't 'appear' to be another garage door *on the detached garage* to the backyard...hard to tell ...*if only we had a clearer view around that corner*...
 
So is it a stretch to imagine the detached garage has one door on each end, and that an F150 could back up straight through and out the rear door, up to the back deck? It is difficult to tell in the pic where exactly that tree trunk would be, and I'm not sure if there would be enough space to maneouvre the truck on an angle to the deck. Is it also possible that the back fence may have a gate (it kind of looks like it could be gates as opposed to fixed fencing?) that could potentially be opened to allow a vehicle to back up? One might suspect it would be darker in the back and easier to fill a truck bed back there, but again, there would have been tire tracks too.

Okay....deugirtni...*do you know how hard it is to keep from spelling your name the 'other' way?*L* anyways...very large picture at link ...check out the area right behind? to the side of the passenger side of the police car....looks different doesn't it? Different ...I mean ...from the rest of the fence....possible gate? What do you think....

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1890290/thumbs/o-CALGARY-AMBER-ALERT-facebook.jpg
 
I wonder how LE is ever found to be incompetent without someone first looking at what they are doing with a critical eye? Comparing early red flags from other cases is only prudent, I would think, even if they are found to be dissimilar.

I'm a big believer of the public's right to know, right to question openly, and right to have answers to those questions. LE obviously needs some form of secrecy to investigate and prosecute criminal acts, but when the secrecy worsens the situation as in the Pickton case, then screaming from the rooftops is far too late to be effective.

Looking at what they are doing with a critical eye doesn't mean saying. " I have a feeling you've got the wrong guy just because .... so please start at the beginning again." It means, among other things, doing what Laura's ex boyfriend did -- going to the press when the police wouldn't listen, with a phone bill as evidence.

In the Pickton case, people knew the cops were being lazy. Some parents went to the press and were ignored a second time. No one screamed from the rooftops until it was too late although the press could have screamed very early on before many of the deaths. It was a failure of media as well as police. ( and again, the parents went to the media with solid info about Pickton's farm, and other facts)

But that case changed the way many people and the police look at missing persons. (Although as Laura Babcock shows, it's still a problem.)

I think a major factor is that court cases drag on wAy too long, which is bad for everyone except the lawyers. The public does have the right to know in a timely fashion and the justice system needs to be fixed ASAP so the accused and victims can get justice and we can know in a timely fashion how effective the police work was (or wasn't).

So what specific questions would you have for the Calgary police with regard to this case?

I would ask, when did you learn of AL 's company's bankruptcy and first talk to people there?

I am also curious about KL's bankruptcy and seemingly rapid recovery although that may be a red herring.
 
I'm confused about what you people are talking about when you refer to the pic of NO in the video? I'm not seeing NO anywhere in that video? The small child at the garage (the front garage) in the video, wouldn't that be the younger child who was turning 2, rather than NO?

That boy is definitely our NO, but a much younger little fella'. About 3 I would say.
 
Try this link... http://globalnews.ca/video/1544880/family-friends-gather-to-say-goodbye-to-nathan-obrien
I also entertained the possibility of hand me down clothes on Nathan's little brother. Although I don't know what the little brother looks like, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to suspect they are very similar in appearances. But either way, it is weird. Why wold they use dated video and pass it off as recent?

I think the friend called the reporter, maybe looking for a little more public attention for the trust funds. I think any reporter would jump at the chance for any addendum to this story. Maybe the older footage of little NO was all CH had.
 
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