Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16

[Power of Two]

Also an excellent exit point. I wonder if DG could back his truck up to the edge of the deck railing, where he could have sort of hung the victims face down bent over the railings, jumped into the back of the truck and pull them in to the box? That would take care of him having to hoist them up from the ground into the box. He could have used a comforter or chair to drag or roll them onto the deck. This would have been infinitely easier on him that way. Just a thought.

Why haven't we thought of this possibility before now? Hmmm??!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

That makes me think he's been found mentally ill (possibly not criminally responsible) by an assessment. Maybe they fear public outrage if they release their findings.

I find this a bit confusing. Even if the assessments show MD as being mentally ill at the time of the murders, he still has to go through the trial?
The NCR is made by the jury, not by the Psychiatric Assessment.

His case returns to court on Oct. 7, when Wiberg will seek a ban on the psychiatric report until the case is resolved.

The prosecutor said a ban is needed to preserve de Grood’s right to a fair jury trial.

He also said the contents of the report won’t necessarily determine if the accused is not criminally responsible.

“This is a witness statement, it’s not a determination, the determination is made by the jury,” Wiberg said.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/09/2...n-until-media-can-argue-against-it-next-month

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Why haven't we thought of this possibility before now? Hmmm??!

Never noticed the deck...brings in a whole new dynamic. And we were too busy looking at the stains on the sidewalk, and the side door.....

 

[Tinkerbel1]

ETA... Now that I have watched the broadcast I wonder if the video of little Nathan is from a year prior. He looks much younger than his more current photos. Maybe CH was referring to a garage sale done last year and the editing is throwing us off? I found the video a bit odd, in that the footage of Nathan is not recent, but matches other video posted in MSM of him on his Stryder bike. Kids generally ride this type of bike even before learning to ride a 2 wheeler, with or without training wheels, typically between 2-4 years of age. The video of KL and CH is grainy and of very poor quality, (given the techy Iphones that everyone has these days). The dialogue leads us to believe that the video is recent. Neither clips has a 'recent' feel, to me. IMO.

Another curious question... who does the big yellow retriever belong to that is in the clip of the women and the DickiDee ice cream truck? Did the Likneses have a dog?

I don't think so, one of the Kijiji ads said that the couch or loveseat (or both) were very good condition and clean, no pets.

 

[LoisLane]

ETA... Now that I have watched the broadcast I wonder if the video of little Nathan is from a year prior. He looks much younger than his more current photos. Maybe CH was referring to a garage sale done last year and the editing is throwing us off?

I found the video a bit odd, in that the footage of Nathan is not recent, but matches other video posted in MSM of him on his Stryder bike. Kids generally ride this type of bike even before learning to ride a 2 wheeler, with or without training wheels, typically between 2-4 years of age. The video of KL and CH is grainy and of very poor quality, (given the techy Iphones that everyone has these days). The dialogue leads us to believe that the video is recent. Neither clips has a 'recent' feel, to me. IMO.

Another curious question... who does the big yellow retriever belong to that is in the clip of the women and the DickiDee ice cream truck? Did the Likneses have a dog?[/QUOTE]

LL's response: Good point about the grainy video. What is the point of sharing that? (from a reporter/editor point of view)
Maybe CH is arranging these interviews and brings certain things she wants shown. CH has at least one dog, it was mentioned in her cupcake holder advertisment on kijiji, but I think it was black.

These "reply with quotes" are acting funny....

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Also an excellent exit point. I wonder if DG could back his truck up to the edge of the deck railing, where he could have sort of hung the victims face down bent over the railings, jumped into the back of the truck and pull them in to the box? That would take care of him having to hoist them up from the ground into the box. He could have used a comforter or chair to drag or roll them onto the deck. This would have been infinitely easier on him that way. Just a thought.

Very true Tinker, and maybe the sidewalk marks were what LoisLane said - just from leaky garbage and not even related to the crime. So many ways this could go.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I find this a bit confusing. Even if the assessments show MD as being mentally ill at the time of the murders, he still has to go through the trial?
The NCR is made by the jury, not by the Psychiatric Assessment.

His case returns to court on Oct. 7, when Wiberg will seek a ban on the psychiatric report until the case is resolved.

The prosecutor said a ban is needed to preserve de Grood’s right to a fair jury trial.

He also said the contents of the report won’t necessarily determine if the accused is not criminally responsible.

“This is a witness statement, it’s not a determination, the determination is made by the jury,” Wiberg said.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/09/2...n-until-media-can-argue-against-it-next-month

I'm not exactly sure how the courts and this works, but maybe the psychiatrist would hand over the assessment but the courts would still have to 'prove' he isn't criminally responsible, I think a prosecutor can argue against this maybe and claim he was(?) Not sure...

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Very true Tinker, and maybe the sidewalk marks were what LoisLane said - just from leaky garbage and not even related to the crime. So many ways this could go.

Yes, I think the sidewalk stains are either spilled juice by NO or garbage being dragged or leaky bag being carried out to garbage. Obviously, he did it in a place where he was hidden. Easy enough to back a truck up quietly, get in, get them out relatively quickly and be gone! None of neighbors the wiser...who would perk their ears up at a sliding patio door? Or a truck backing up to the deck especially after the Liknes sold things that may be coming out through the patio doors...that's not a far stretch of the imagination a'tall. IMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I found the video a bit odd, in that the footage of Nathan is not recent, but matches other video posted in MSM of him on his Stryder bike. Kids generally ride this type of bike even before learning to ride a 2 wheeler, with or without training wheels, typically between 2-4 years of age. The video of KL and CH is grainy and of very poor quality, (given the techy Iphones that everyone has these days). The dialogue leads us to believe that the video is recent. Neither clips has a 'recent' feel, to me. IMO.

Another curious question... who does the big yellow retriever belong to that is in the clip of the women and the DickiDee ice cream truck? Did the Likneses have a dog?

I don't think so, one of the Kijiji ads said that the couch or loveseat (or both) were very good condition and clean, no pets.[/QUOTE]

You sleuthers are on it! Another good observation about the dog. I believe CH has a dog that was seen in one of the kijiji ads but IIRC I thought the dog was black.

The videos were odd - maybe a rush job to create some sentimentality and emotion to the news piece (worked for me)!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I found the video a bit odd, in that the footage of Nathan is not recent, but matches other video posted in MSM of him on his Stryder bike. Kids generally ride this type of bike even before learning to ride a 2 wheeler, with or without training wheels, typically between 2-4 years of age. The video of KL and CH is grainy and of very poor quality, (given the techy Iphones that everyone has these days). The dialogue leads us to believe that the video is recent. Neither clips has a 'recent' feel, to me. IMO.

Another curious question... who does the big yellow retriever belong to that is in the clip of the women and the DickiDee ice cream truck? Did the Likneses have a dog?

LL's response: Good point about the grainy video. What is the point of sharing that? (from a reporter/editor point of view)
Maybe CH is arranging these interviews and brings certain things she wants shown. CH has at least one dog, it was mentioned in her cupcake holder advertisment on kijiji, but I think it was black.

These "reply with quotes" are acting funny....[/QUOTE]

Maybe it was NO's dog? Did anyone buy NO or AL an icecream? It doesn't look like it on the video. I wonder where they went?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes LoisLane, the quotes are being crazy right now, hard to read and reply to quotes!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Tinker, I think NO did have a golden retriever type dog. If you look at JO's Facebook, there's a darling picture of NO with a dog

 

[LoisLane]

Tinker, I think NO did have a golden retriever type dog. If you look at JO's Facebook, there's a darling picture of NO with a dog

Yes, that picture is so sweet, snuggling in bed...

 

[LoriMcA]

I'd noticed the deck from the overhead pictures at the beginning of the case. It is shown here ...brown in colour:



Here is a picture from the alley behind the house...it is completely fenced:


Picture found here:
http://cponline.thecanadianpress.co...-boy-grandparents-timeline/graphics/july3.jpg
Along with this article:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...sign-of-missing-calgary-family-266969951.html


As much as it would make things easier to enter/exit the house that way...and possibly move the victims via the deck or through the back yard...there isn't a way to get back there with the fence surrounding it. JMOO

 

[LoisLane]

The grainy video of KL and CH at the ice cream truck is said to be taken the last day KL was seen alive. Possibly NO had his treat first and someone else was taking the video, either JO, AL, or CH's husband, or someone else.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'd noticed the deck from the overhead pictures at the beginning of the case. It is shown here ...brown in colour:

View attachment 60066

Here is a picture from the alley behind the house...it is completely fenced:
View attachment 60067

Picture found here:
http://cponline.thecanadianpress.co...-boy-grandparents-timeline/graphics/july3.jpg
Along with this article:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...sign-of-missing-calgary-family-266969951.html


As much as it would make things easier to enter/exit the house that way...and possibly move the victims via the deck or through the back yard...there isn't a way to get back there with the fence surrounding it. JMOO

Thanks for checking it out, yep, looks fenced in alright. No way to back up the truck there. Good that you checked.

 

[deugirtni]

Am I missing something? Doesn't it look like there is a garage at the end of the back yard, with a garage door, and then fencing along the rest of the width of the property.... and isn't it possible there is another garage door on the opposite end of the garage.. which could mean that a vehicle could potentially go into the one garage door, out of the other end and into the yard below the balcony? Have we seen pics of the other end of the garage to know there is not another door?

I'd noticed the deck from the overhead pictures at the beginning of the case. It is shown here ...brown in colour:

View attachment 60066

Here is a picture from the alley behind the house...it is completely fenced:
View attachment 60067

Picture found here:
http://cponline.thecanadianpress.co...-boy-grandparents-timeline/graphics/july3.jpg
Along with this article:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...sign-of-missing-calgary-family-266969951.html


As much as it would make things easier to enter/exit the house that way...and possibly move the victims via the deck or through the back yard...there isn't a way to get back there with the fence surrounding it. JMOO

 

[LoriMcA]

Thanks for checking it out, yep, looks fenced in alright. No way to back up the truck there. Good that you checked.

Well when I saw the discussion I remembered back at the beginning there had been some talk about possibly going in thru the back.. *I'd have to go look*

I think it was mentioned at some point as well...the deck in front *with the other patio doors over the garage*...If someone had a truck parked in the drive...they could be right under that deck...it would be more obvious tho out in front....using that deck....*I don't even like to think of that picture in my head*

 

[LoriMcA]

Am I missing something? Doesn't it look like there is a garage at the end of the back yard, with a garage door, and then fencing along the rest of the width of the property.... and isn't it possible there is another garage door on the opposite end of the garage.. which could mean that a vehicle could potentially go into the one garage door, out of the other end and into the yard below the balcony? Have we seen pics of the other end of the garage to know there is not another door?

Actually...there is the garage at the back...at the alley...but right behind/in front? of it...is the extension on the house...which runs behind the attached garage on the house....I'll try and find an overhead that was shown by helicopter...it shows the extension quite well......

 

[deugirtni]

I'm confused about what you people are talking about when you refer to the pic of NO in the video? I'm not seeing NO anywhere in that video? The small child at the garage (the front garage) in the video, wouldn't that be the younger child who was turning 2, rather than NO?

ETA... Now that I have watched the broadcast I wonder if the video of little Nathan is from a year prior. He looks much younger than his more current photos. Maybe CH was referring to a garage sale done last year and the editing is throwing us off?

I found the video a bit odd, in that the footage of Nathan is not recent, but matches other video posted in MSM of him on his Stryder bike. Kids generally ride this type of bike even before learning to ride a 2 wheeler, with or without training wheels, typically between 2-4 years of age. The video of KL and CH is grainy and of very poor quality, (given the techy Iphones that everyone has these days). The dialogue leads us to believe that the video is recent. Neither clips has a 'recent' feel, to me. IMO.

Another curious question... who does the big yellow retriever belong to that is in the clip of the women and the DickiDee ice cream truck? Did the Likneses have a dog?