Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #4

[garbagetweet]

Is Winter Petroleum connected to AL?

[modsnip]
Police have been contacted and are aware of this; (now ex) employees, as well as landowners where their operations were stationed are being investigated, among other leads.

 

[kittymeow]

Amber Alerts have to meet certain criteria and unfortunately not just any officer can put one out. I am going to assume that JO arrived at the house at 1000, saw whatever it is she saw, her family not to be found and she called 911. One of the criteria for an alert is that there has to be confirmation the child has been abducted. I think that took some time to figure out and IIRC the amber alert was for Alvin and Nathan at first and then it got updated to include KL. There was no mention of a vehicle either.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/mb/prog-serv/alerte-amber-alert-eng.htm

I think I remember reading that they actually decided to make an EXCEPTION for this situation in order to issue an amber alert. They typically require a vehicle description as well but they made an exception for this situation as there was no vehicle associated with the case at that time. That could be another reason in the delay for the amber alert.

 

[ElleElle]

Just responding to the bold. Maybe AL and CL were suppose to do something that morning? If I had plans with someone and repeatedly called and heard nothing I would definitely head over. JMO

I also wonder if the house was being watched and the perp(s) saw JO drop off NO. There was a 12 hour time span. 10pm - 10 am.

I guess i'm trying to understand a motive for their disappearance, and 50/50 on voluntarily and 50/50 involuntarily. JMO.

 

[ztzt]

I don't think DG necessarily obtained that ID on his own. He obtained the ID when he went on the lam for 7 years after LE found his meth lab. IMHO he may have had help obtaining it, and (paid for it) and felt he never needed to obtain another one. For all we know, the ID theft he is charged with now may be pieces of the original ID LE never found (or looked for) previously.

As to his usernames on websites, IMHO I think it was just a useful alias in his mind.

Quote of my post #780:
one would think he didn't want to be associated with the former fake ID, no more than he would want to be associated with a car crash victim of his?

Since the argument used by some here against the possibility of DG being associated with the MKH accident is that he wouldn't want to be linked to his victim, why not use the same argument (albeit for: not wanting to be associated with his past ID stealing crime) to refute the absence of such a connection?

 

[skibaboo]

please check my post #942 in the previous thread for the links. it was mentioned in a previous thread by another member as well. Sorry for not providing links in this post but I am on my phone and it is near impossible for me to c/p links.

Thanks!!

ETA: And I'm a twit :facepalm: the manuals... I remember now, sorry.

 

[Bravo]

I do feel the reason DG went to the home was for $. Whether to rob them of what they had made that day or something prior business related. I wonder if the Grandparents had a trigger response knowing a Grandchild was in the house. As any loving Grandparent would. Violence occurs. Now the plan changes. He has witnesses who can identify him. IMO

 

[Snoop Sister]

Here's an odd coincidence that struck me when I read about the vigil:

Same Church ...

"St. Michael Catholic Community Church held a special prayer service on Monday evening for Nathan and Kathy and Alvin Liknes. It was attended by the family of the three."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rayer-vigil-held-for-missing-family-1.2699624


February 4, 2013
"Sandra Mykytiuk-Evans, 56, was last seen at her Strathcona residence at 6 p.m. on Dec. 29.

Her daughters are planning a massive search to take place starting at 10 a.m. Saturday at St. Michael Church, 800 85 St. S.W., and focusing mainly in the city’s southwest where Mykytiuk-Evans lived and frequented."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/F...cher+Sandra+Mykytiuk+Evans/7912902/story.html

Her body was found downstream in the river in the Spring.

Interesting coincidence.

 

[ElleElle]

Has someone or even a mod created a timelime of factual information that can be shared or posted, there seems to be alot of speculation and assuption being made that are stretching out known facts.

IMHO, i like the train of thoughts people are having but with many directions of personal thoughts being shared we are all missing some key information that may have been over looked while we have been discussing our opinions and thoughts on this case.

I agree, we need our own Canadian True Crime group to create/manage this. A timeline of events would be awesome.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Sadly I get the sense that the missing victims are no longer with us and if it was DG then there will be no evidence remaining. It would not be a surprise to me if the LE announce they are going to cease any further searches in the next news briefing for this particular area. The fact that LE have not released information may not only be due to keeping it close to the vest but maybe they don't have much more then what they have announced to media.
On FB a family member posted a recent picture of AL and themselves and I was struck by the photo because AL looked older and more frail then the original photo media has available where AL looks quite strong and healthy. So in my mind AL may have had a difficult time defending himself from an attack especially since we do not know what the nature of his leg limp is as mentioned in media.
Scary point is that if LE do not find evidence which I think is sadly going to be the end result, then DG will likely only be charged with a minor offence with the ID issue currently and will likely be out on bail very soon.
Lastly, as posted on WS a neighbor was rumoured to have seen at the Garlands farm that the potting shed-plant shed lights were on at night added to that there was burning going on as well. Was the burning going on at the same time during the night that the lights were on in the large potting shed? That was not clarified by poster.

 

[excalgary]

I also wonder if the house was being watched and the perp(s) saw JO drop off NO. There was a 12 hour time span. 10pm - 10 am.

I guess i'm trying to understand a motive for their disappearance, and 50/50 on voluntarily and 50/50 involuntarily. JMO.

NO was not dropped off (incorrect reporting) but rather left behind at the end of his visit.
They also mentioned in the Amber Alert that NO was last seen in the area of MacLeod trail.....again, somewhat misleading as it would lead people to believe he was last seen away from the property, not on it.

 

[Boosmom]

I have to agree with this line of thought... This late morning visit the day the disappearance was reported has been nagging at me as well. It was a Monday morning, so it also assumes that CL was on vacation or is retired/unemployed and not at work. And while it is possible they had plans, as stated here, he never mentioned that. My brother lives a five minute drive away from me and if he doesn't answer, I leave him a message to call me back when he can. If we had plans, and I had no reason to assume he was in peril, I would assume something had come up and wait for him to call back... Just seems off...

Indeed.
Had I heard "my brother and I were supposed to get together that morning and I got concerned when he didn't answer his phone", I would never question CL's reaction to AL not answering his phone.
In my experience, people who carry cell phones don't always answer.

 

[Carli]

[modsnip]
Police have been contacted and are aware of this; (now ex) employees, as well as landowners where their operations were stationed are being investigated, among other leads.

Link please.

 

[wendiesan]

Is this still an Amber Alert? If so please uddate us with what we are looking out for? Is there still a green Ford at large? What are the adults/child wearing?
Frustrated ramblings above :gaah:

snipped and bolded by me for focus

I thought I'd dig a little into the way Amber Alerts are handled by CPS in order to give a little context to discussing the bolded sentence.
An Amber Alert was made on June 27th regarding the abduction of a baby boy by his biological father in Calgary, and was cancelled when CPS returned the baby to his mother. In the aftermath, Calgary Sun reporter Jenna McMurray discussed Amber Alerts with Calgary police Insp. Mike Tillotson.

“Any sort of abduction is a real high-risk call or can be a real high-risk call,” said Tillotson.

“Whenever we deal with Amber Alerts and children involved in parental incidents, of course they can be very highly emotionally charged and we certainly take them very, very seriously and we don’t relax at all until the child is safely back where they belong, so it was very tense for us,”

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/06/2...ld-police-say-believe-boy-was-taken-by-father

CPS spokesman Kevin Brookwell explained the unusual cirucumstances surrounding the Amber Alert for Nathan and his grandparents. Initially police had not issued an AA since all the grandparents' vehicles were accounted for, however as the investigation developed CPS and AB gov officials changed their minds.

“Normally when you look for the criteria for an Amber Alert, what was missing was a description about an abductor or a mode of transportation, which still exists, but given the other criteria, we do have a good description of the young lad as well as the grandparents, we decided we would put out an Amber Alert regardless of missing that one criteria,” Brookwell said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...who-may-be-with-grandparents/article19401260/

At this time, I have found nothing in searches to indicate the AA re Nathan has been cancelled.

 

[ztzt]

Do we know what day/date the crash occurred? If it was a weekend, DG may have been home for a visit, and the crash could have been the cause of his breakdown.

Seems to be October 29, 1980. MKH's sister died Oct. 29, 1980, MKH died the following day, Oct. 30. (according to their graves)

October 29, 1980 was a Wednesday.

I would be more keen to know the date of the "horrific" car crash DG caused, if it did occur.

P.S. Not sure if you were talking about the crash that killed MKH? Because "the other crash", cited by DG in court, did cause his breakdown ("traumatized"). I wouldn't think there were two car accidents, one of them not caused by him, both of which caused his breakdown.

 

[LoriMcA]

<bbm>

Do we know what day/date the crash occurred? If it was a weekend, DG may have been home for a visit, and the crash could have been the cause of his breakdown.

Re the "more than ADD" .. I agree, as ADD can be comorbid with other disorders that frequently manifest in young adults.

IIRC....from the Lethbridge newspaper article that was posted earlier in this thread...the accident occurred Wed Oct 29 1980 and both children passed within a day of each other after that ...also in October. I went to look...you can only view one daily edition of the herald ...I saved the obituaries & Matthew passed on Oct 30....his sister must have passed at the scene or shortly after ...her obituary says Oct 29.

 

[wendiesan]

To comment on your last comment, I personally would have done the same thing if my family was holding an estate sale.. doubts (about an issue) or not. I would have been worried.

I agree. My DD and DSIL recently helped his parents dispose of a lot of stuff from their home of fourty years. Some items were being sold from DD & DSIL's garage and had been advertised on Kijiji. As DSIL dealt with the potential buyer, DD was writing down license plate numbers, vehicle descriptions, and descriptions of the customers. Just in case. We're a little security conscious at times.

 

[skibaboo]

Not aimed at anyone, but please don't forget :tos: Rumours...

 

[Snoop Sister]

I too can't get past the fact of someone removing 3 bodies/harmed people from the home. And if the intention was to kill them, why not kill them and leave them there. People would already have the potential to recognize a vehicle there - why risk being seen removing bodies to the vehicle or cleaning up? Was the intention to kill? Obviously the person was in medical distress...why not just end it right there in the home vs potentially having blood, hair, and other DNA in a vehicle? Something does not add up.

I would love to know if any phone calls were made from the residence or either AL or KL cell phones.

Things got out of hand and someone got hurt. Witnesses present.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2699690.1404825297!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/prayer-vigil.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-search-resumes-for-missing-family-1.2699624

Photo of family at mass this morning. So sad.

 

[excalgary]

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2699690.1404825297!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/prayer-vigil.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-search-resumes-for-missing-family-1.2699624

Photo of family at mass this morning. So sad.

Heartbreaking.