CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh and about the coded key - yes, only the coded key will start these cars.

Also, I think these cars come equipped with an alarm system. If Audrey and/or the killer had bumped up against the car during the attack, the car would have started 'screaming' until someone/something (the coded key) shut off the alarm.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did we ever discuss that Audrey's Camaro may have had an immobilizer?

from:
http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/how-much-would-car-insurance-cost-for-a-chevy-camaro/



From what I can gather, the original coded key would be required to be inserted in the ignition or the engine wouldn't start. I don't think we've never known for sure what became of Audrey's keys (iirc, it was indicated they might have been in her purse, but I don't think that was verified)

One common denominator I'm considering in both Audrey's case and the case of Tim Bosma is the uniqueness / desirability of the vehicle or the engine itself.

Again quoting SB's post:

I asked LONG AGO if the car had OnStar and PK said no, it didn't. I'm certain OnStar is standard equipment on all high-end GM vehicles. Absolutely certain.......

 

[colette]

OnStar is a paid subscription, so Audrey night not have used it. I think it's like sat. radio, you get it free for a short period after you buy the new car.

 

[dotr]

Oh and about the coded key - yes, only the coded key will start these cars.

Also, I think these cars come equipped with an alarm system. If Audrey and/or the killer had bumped up against the car during the attack, the car would have started 'screaming' until someone/something (the coded key) shut off the alarm.

:twocents:

Had not thought about car alarms till now, if Audrey was attacked in the garage would the alarm go off?

 

[dotr]

Hope they check out this guy, assault shown on cctv video below.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/29/halton-police-searching-for-suspect-in-senior-assault-case/

"Halton police are searching for a driver who assaulted a senior citizen.

According to police, a senior was crossing Mill Street East near Main Street in Milton on May 20 around 3 p.m. with his dog when an approaching vehicle sped up.

The senior picked up his dog and hurried to finish crossing. The driver exited his vehicle and allegedly began verbally berating the older man. He then reportedly followed him into a store and shoved him to the floor".

 

[dotr]

Article is followed by comment from someone who had a similar experience with perp.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3241314-video-police-hunt-man-who-attacked-senior/

" The suspect is described as white, age 35 to 40, six-foot, 190 pounds, black shoulder length hair with a muscular build. He was driving a grey mini-van, possibly a Dodge caravan.
"
Anyone with information, including witnesses of this attack, is asked to call 905-825-4747 extension 2415 or Crime Stoppers at 1 800 222-8477.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from dotr's post:

<<< Had not thought about car alarms till now, if Audrey was attacked in the garage would the alarm go off? >>>


Well IF the car was hit hard enough the alarms would go off. For example, my car will start screaming if my husband inadvertantly brushes up against it while getting stuff out of his car OR if my car is parked and a passing car passes too closely. I have my car alarm set for a passing car doing 40km ph and I have it also set so my husband (or anyone) is able to TOUCH the car and not have the alarms go off. HOWEVER, if I was struggling/hitting/banging against the car......it would scream loudly until I turned the alarm off.

Now.......there IS a way to turn off the alarm on GM cars. But that would involve getting under the hood, finding the turn down/turn off button and planning it in advance.

Would Audrey have had her alarm turned OFF? The guys at GM can do it, but it IS a safety feature. Also, if she didn't have OnStar the alarm is helpful becaue if she was feeling unwell, she'd only need to park the car and open the door. If she would be able to bang something against the door, the car would start screaming and people would come for help.

:twocents:

 

[dotr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHfdGn-Knv8

 

[greenthumb]

SB, my 'Vette came equipped with an immobiliser. Here's how it works:

If my car is stolen ( :scared: ) and the thief is driving on a highway at a fast speed, the cops (through GM) gently start slowing the car down. The thief loses control of the speed. It doesn't come to a rapid stop causing accidents. Then, the police escort the car over to the side of the road.

I'm not sure about the coded key and the starting of the car up. I just know that the car can be slowed down whilst on a road and driven off the road to safety.

:twocents:

Wow! I hadn't heard of this feature, so went investigating... and I think this is actually an 'OnStar' feature, offered on vehicles beginning in 2009 - it's called 'Stolen Vehicle Slowdown Feature'. More info here - http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1026150_gm-to-begin-onstar-stolen-vehicle-slowdown-rollout-on-2009-models Very cool feature, IMO!

What year was AG's Camaro?

The Immobilizer system is something else, related to the correct key being used in the ignition - see here http://www.cheviman.com/cinfo-847.html

This vehicle has a passive theft-deterrent system.

The system does not have to be manually armed or disarmed.

The vehicle is automatically immobilized when the key is removed from the ignition.

The system is automatically disarmed when the vehicle is started with the correct key. The key uses a transponder that matches an immobilizer control unit in the vehicle and automatically disarms the system. Only the correct key starts the vehicle.

So, if the vehicle was the target in AG's case, the question arises of why the perps did not have the correct key... if AG had been out driving, and just pulled into garage, presumably the keys would be either still in the vehicle or in her hand/on her person and easily found by perps. Even if she hadn't been out driving, if they wanted the car, presumably they would have been able to locate the keys in the house, perhaps in her purse or on a key rack.

But - LE did take her car - so maybe it showed signs of tampering? Do you suppose AG was in the house, & had left the garage door up (perhaps inadvertently?) - or the perp broke into the garage - and while the perp(s) was in the garage trying to hotwire the vehicle, AG heard something that made her investigate - and she came upon him/them already in the garage? Maybe whoever it was did not realize it would be so hard to steal this particular car. Just a possible scenario that might explain why the Camaro apparently was seized as evidence.

All MOO.

ETA - per NSU's post above, I suppose in this scenario, the car alarm would have gone off, which would have brought AG out to the garage to investigate! So, question for NSU - how loud is that alarm, do you know? Loud enough to be heard by neighbours even out in an isolated rural area? And - does it just go on & on indefinitely, or does it shut itself off at some point? Thx

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey's car was a 2010.

The alarm is LOUD!! I parked my 'Vette in a first floor underground in downtown Toronto. Someone touched the car and I heard it in an office on the THIRD floor.

I said.....oh that's my car. Excuse me, I'll be right back. And sure enough it was my car.

I just had to unlock the car and the alarm stopped. Then, I relocked it.


Yes, until someone opens the car door with the remote, the alarm goes on and on and on. Mine has a loud shrieking sound........like shrieeeeeek, shrieeeeeek, shrieeeeek until I stop it. Very much like a home alarm system, a loud piercing screaming noise. EVERYONE would notice. Even 'out in the country' like Audrey's area. UNLESS SHE HAD THE ALARM TURNED OFF AT THE GM DEALERSHIP!
------------

The slowing-down feature is really cool. It was made for the police to use in high speed chases but now GM owners can get it.

 

[greenthumb]

Continuing to delve into the alarm issue - from the manual for 2010 Camaro - Vehicle Security here - http://www.c6registry.com/technical/manuals/2010camaromanual.pdf

Anti-Theft Alarm System
This vehicle has an anti-theft
alarm system.
How the System Alarm is
Activated
To activate the system if it is armed,
open any door, the trunk or hood.
The horn will sound and the hazard
warning &#64258;ashers will &#64258;ash.

RSBM

If we can rely on this manual, it seems that on the Camaro, it is not an 'alarm' sound like on your car, NSU - it is just the honking of the horn and flashing of the hazard lights. So, maybe not loud enough to be heard by neighbours?

And also, I note that it does not go off because of touching it, bumping it, like some others - only if door/trunk/hood opened.

Next question is - does alarm run on car battery, and would it therefore shut off when battery eventually died, and how long might that take?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

IIRC, the horn honking goes on for a long time. And it's loud. I know this because my GM mechanic drives a Camaro and that's how his works.

The honking isn't just a quick little honk that we drivers do if a person seems to be stepping in our way. Rather, it's a non-stop HONK HONK HONK HONK..... Think of a flock of geese flying overhead loudly for a period of about 10 minutes. That's a long time for someone to not hear/notice.

So from the info from the Camaro manual, it would seem that Audrey's car would have remained silent if she'd been attacked on/near the car in the garage. Too bad because her life might have been spared......:stormingmad:

I wonder if the Camaro had been tampered with prior to her murder. Thinking again of the TB car freaks.

And why don't we know where the car ended up? Does LV have it? Do LE still have it? I feel that the car is important and should be addressed by LE......unless it's some sort of hold-back by LE.

 

[LeftCoaster]

I wonder if the Camaro had been tampered with prior to her murder. Thinking again of the TB car freaks.

And why don't we know where the car ended up? Does LV have it? Do LE still have it? I feel that the car is important and should be addressed by LE......unless it's some sort of hold-back by LE.

<rsbm; bbm>

At the time of Audrey's murder, I was puzzled at the mention in MSM - will see if I can find the link - of the collision reconstruction team being part of the investigation, and the swift removal of the car in a trailer, as opposed to on a flatbed truck. IMO, that says evidence was on the exterior of the car, OR something had taken place in the vehicle's interior. My original impression, until reports and the local grapevine made clear that Audrey's body had been found "in the house," was that she had been run over or pinned to cause the "other injuries."

Good question to ask once again, NSU, as to why we never saw anything again about the car! Guessing here that it has to be hold-back. Another reason to speculate about the TB suspects and whether there is a connection.

There's just that nagging detail about the dogs - actually crated or merely confined to the kitchen makes a world of difference to the crime scene. In the kitchen says she had gone out to take care of something where the dogs would be a nuisance (quick errand?)...Whereas, if the dogs were actually crated, the idea of Audrey either greeting or seeing a visitor out is more likely, and we're back to the "guest" theory:moo:. Car related?

Wonder what could emerge in the days ahead as the TB investigation continues.

 

[Sillybilly]

Now, to throw a spanner in the works - IF it's the same team involved in the TB killing......why didn't they take the car after the killing? The car was sitting perfectly in the garage when PK arrived!

:twocents:

<rsbm>

That's where I was going ... it seems some immobilizers are different. With yours, the car can be driven, but I'm pretty certain with others that have the coded key, it can't even be started. Because I can't remember the exact model and specs on Audrey's car, I don't know if it has what is called PASSkey (I, II, III etc) or VATS (vehicle anti theft system), or both. It is my understanding that either system will not allow the car to even start. This is just a smattering of links I've found:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_GM_passkey_III_work

According to this site, VATS is standard on the 2010 Camaro Coupe LT, LS, SS:

http://www.corvetteclinic.com.au/index.php/camaro/2010-camaro/2010-camaro-coupe

http://my.cardone.com/techdocs/PT 77-0011.pdf

From what I can gather, it takes a minimum 1/2 hour to "relearn" the ignition in one case, and if not done correctly, it won't happen. From flailing around in other articles, bypass is possible, but I think requires special equipment and technique.

Just wondering if perhaps Audrey wouldn't present the original key, and any resulting torture/mutiliation was an attempt at finding out where it was, and in the long run the perp had to abandon their attempt.

None of the articles I read make reference to an audible alarm. The articles all seem to indicate the inability to start is in the ignition itself, so I would think they mean that you have already gained access to the interior of the vehicle without an audible alarm.

 

[Chorley8]

Oh and about the coded key - yes, only the coded key will start these cars.

Also, I think these cars come equipped with an alarm system. If Audrey and/or the killer had bumped up against the car during the attack, the car would have started 'screaming' until someone/something (the coded key) shut off the alarm.

:twocents:

Hi No Stone,

Superb point - can you expand - what does this mean? Don't drive never have lost on this issue. I am also taking in SB's point about Onstar but again I am lost on this overall point - but it seems crucial.

Chorley

 

[Chorley8]

<rsbm; bbm>

At the time of Audrey's murder, I was puzzled at the mention in MSM - will see if I can find the link - of the collision reconstruction team being part of the investigation, and the swift removal of the car in a trailer, as opposed to on a flatbed truck. IMO, that says evidence was on the exterior of the car, OR something had taken place in the vehicle's interior. My original impression, until reports and the local grapevine made clear that Audrey's body had been found "in the house," was that she had been run over or pinned to cause the "other injuries."

Good question to ask once again, NSU, as to why we never saw anything again about the car! Guessing here that it has to be hold-back. Another reason to speculate about the TB suspects and whether there is a connection.

There's just that nagging detail about the dogs - actually crated or merely confined to the kitchen makes a world of difference to the crime scene. In the kitchen says she had gone out to take care of something where the dogs would be a nuisance (quick errand?)...Whereas, if the dogs were actually crated, the idea of Audrey either greeting or seeing a visitor out is more likely, and we're back to the "guest" theory:moo:. Car related?

Wonder what could emerge in the days ahead as the TB investigation continues.

Thanks LC gain lost on the car issue myself but just want to say thanks to you various posters who have revived the thread so brilliantly thanks!!

 

[roseofsharon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHfdGn-Knv8

OMG!!! This is just disgusting and so scary.

I must share my own experience about three weeks ago in Halton.

My husband and I stopped at a yard sale. The street had a grassy boulevard dividing the street with intermittant spaces for cars to turn into the other side of the boulevard.

When we left the yard sale to return to our vehicle, a car turned into exit only side of the street. There were two occupants in the vehicle, an older female, (could have been mother) and a male occupant in his late 20's, early 30's.

The female appeared confused, as she realized she was on the wrong side of the road and turned into one of the spaces, but now was exiting the street on the entrance side.

As we approached the main road, the male passenger gave us the finger. Why?, we don't know, as we had not said a word at that point.

My husband very nicely told them they were on the wrong side of the road. With that, the male passenger hollered that he had already told her and called my husband a f------ p----!

The woman shouted out the passenger window for us to mind our own damn business.

So, this is the mentality out there when you are trying to help someone.

By being on the wrong side of the road, had a car turned into the entrance side of the road and not expected a car to be there, there could have been an accident, but it was our fault for trying to help.

What a world!!!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Chorley, my point is now moot because we've determined that Audrey's car would NOT start to make the alarm honk just by her body being thrust against the car. (Unlike the car I drive).

SB, I have what is called a PASSkey. No one is able to enter/start my car without my remote control or drive it without my PASSkey. So.....that makes sense.

I was thinking of something else last night......at my GM dealership when I leave the car for servicing, the mechanics REFUSE to keep my entire set of keys (house, etc) for fear of being blamed if my house is broken into. I am only allowed to leave my PASSkeys at the GM dealership. AND....the PASSkeys cannot be copied!

I wonder if it was the same for Audrey! Did she ONLY leave her car keys when the car was being serviced?

Also, since 2002 all Camaros have a little red light on the upper dashboard facing the front windshield (looks like a little ladybug in size) which blinks red constantly when the car is not in motion. This is a deterrant to thieves. Wouldn't Audrey's car have had that little light?

My biggest question is WHY the killer didn't take the car! I'm sure many men know a LOT more than I do about cars even though I'm an admitted 'car freak' myself. Wouldn't the killer know (if the car was the reason for the killing) KNOW all about the inner workings of her car?

:twocents:

 

[roseofsharon]

After reading the news this a.m. regarding an expensive Harley Davidson being found in DM's hanger, along with other vehicles, I do believe the motive for AG's murder was her vehicle.

Whether or not DM and his accomplice(s) had any part in AG's murder remains to be seen, however, I'm sure LE will investigate this thoroughly.

The killer had to get A out of the way before stealing her vehicle. I think the dogs barking during the beating, sexual assault and murder were enough to make the killer think twice about stealing the car.

The attack may have taken place in the early morning hours and the killer was probably scared off thinking neighbours would hear the dogs barking and then go to A's home to see what the problem was.

Just speculation and only imo.

 

[roseofsharon]

Chorley, my point is now moot because we've determined that Audrey's car would NOT start to make the alarm honk just by her body being thrust against the car. (Unlike the car I drive).

SB, I have what is called a PASSkey. No one is able to enter/start my car without my remote control or drive it without my PASSkey. So.....that makes sense.

I was thinking of something else last night......at my GM dealership when I leave the car for servicing, the mechanics REFUSE to keep my entire set of keys (house, etc) for fear of being blamed if my house is broken into. I am only allowed to leave my PASSkeys at the GM dealership. AND....the PASSkeys cannot be copied!

I wonder if it was the same for Audrey! Did she ONLY leave her car keys when the car was being serviced?

Also, since 2002 all Camaros have a little red light on the upper dashboard facing the front windshield (looks like a little ladybug in size) which blinks red constantly when the car is not in motion. This is a deterrant to thieves. Wouldn't Audrey's car have had that little light?

My biggest question is WHY the killer didn't take the car! I'm sure many men know a LOT more than I do about cars even though I'm an admitted 'car freak' myself. Wouldn't the killer know (if the car was the reason for the killing) KNOW all about the inner workings of her car?

:twocents:

Someone very close to me had their camaro, hundreds of dollar spent on it ... new engine, sound system, etc., (mint) stolen from a Mississauga parking lot and it was found in Brantford! (left in a field) This was almost 10 years ago. The only thing left of the car was the shell.