Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

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kiki the parrot said:
Just to refresh lol... the above referenced article states research shows the brain is indeed neurologically changed during the formative years of childhood--the great majority of which is attributed to a child's quality of parenting. Though on a more hopeful note it states it is also possible to alter the course of a sociopath before their hardware becomes permanently hardwired for life. JMO

"Brain growth and changes can occur in the developing human because of environmental and social factors. The fact abnormal physical changes have been found in the brains of sociopaths does not mean they were born this way." http://www.viewzone.com/sociopath.html
Click to expand...


oops.. sorry I didn't catch it the first time LOL
 
Kiki - Just a curiousity...What's to say that the "abnormal physical changes" were not genetical pre-destined? Cancer is also an "abnormal physical change" and there is increasing evidence that this abnormal physical change could be (with specific types) pre-disposed genetically. I don't mean to be arguementative, I'm interested and curious as to what you think about this. As always, I enjoy your insight!
 
sharpar said:
She said Georges sister was bi polar

whatever KC is - it most certainly is not Bi polar .
Click to expand...

Shar, I'm not so sure we can say that she is not BiPolar, along with a host of other personality disorders. She certainly could be...especially with some of the outrageous swings of behaviors. It's quite possible. However, again, that is not to say if she were bipolar as the cause of why she did what she did to Caylee. Even if bipolar, she knew right from wrong. Many people suffer with bipolar and they do not commit murder, habitual lying, nor steal for that matter.
 
Mrs. Peel said:
Perhaps off topic, but do you think that the A's or at least one of them knew the site and was directing PI Casey? I can nearly imagine it, so used to A family shenangians. I can see CA on the cellphone right now, calling and directing, micromanaging, making him go back repeatedly.

Is possible or likely?

I'd really like some opinion as to the likelihood of the one of the family being in on facts vs. Baez. Who would KC tell or hint STRONGLY to? The PI was within 10 feet of remains.

(Another monkey wrench, please bear with me, the Astros say a certain criminal lawyer, ie civil suit, may have been on the phone. Astros have never been wrong yet, not once. But where did atty get info....eeek.)
Click to expand...


I know a new thread was started for this last night so I don't want to start an off topic, however...what I find hard to believe is that the man was so close and yet didn't spot her? IS it possible the media is getting all sorts of their input into the reportings and they're not accurate? Here is the link for that discussion: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...21#post3158921
As for the psyche part of your question...I don't even know anymore as there are so many twists and turns in this case that I can barely keep up. I was very against the way Cindy Anthony portrayed herself in the beginning and then switched to "defend" her actions because of learning all that she has endured which invariably I still believe causes her to come across as she did...and I do still support that theory....but as far as did they truly know and aware of where Caylee lay, I have to go with my gut and say I don't believe they did. Was Lee aware? Possibly. Was George? I doubt it. Cindy? I doubt it. Baez? YES. IF anyone I believe may have had the awareness is would be BAEZ. That's my penny's worth.
 
Pink Panther said:
Kiki - Just a curiousity...What's to say that the "abnormal physical changes" were not genetical pre-destined? Cancer is also an "abnormal physical change" and there is increasing evidence that this abnormal physical change could be (with specific types) pre-disposed genetically. I don't mean to be arguementative, I'm interested and curious as to what you think about this. As always, I enjoy your insight!
Click to expand...

Like most, I can only try to sort through and decipher what's learned by the experts in this field!! Although I give much weight to what my life experience has taught me--and what my hard-earned wisdom confirms--my opinions must defer to a great extent to those w greater knowledge, clinical experience etc. Re this topic and your queston... I posted Dr. K. Dillard's article because it approaches this question from all angles, reconciling some of the apparent conflict, is balanced (something for everyone lol), understandable, based upon research and clinical experience, is born out in my own life experience--and because I found it concise and helpful and hoped others might too. JMO

:)
 
And for One, the only thing I'm really thinking right now is thank you PP for not ripping me a new one lol (j/k... sorta!)
:blowkiss:
 
Just to clarify, Bipolar disorder is not a personality disorder, it is a mood disorder. Completely different illnesses and not even on the same Axis.
 
reeseeva said:
OLG, I see you jumped ship from the other thread, don't:shutup::saythat:

I think you're Great!:):beamup:
Click to expand...

Even I think you're great!!!:eek:
Very witty, clever, slow to rumble:) Some of us just had the aristocrats of all mothers - world beware.:crazy:
 
kiki the parrot said:
What One said!!! Wow u go girl, powerful post. I am very grateful to you for sharing, you are doing so many right things! JMO

:heart:
:rose:
:rocker:
Click to expand...

---------------

Different kid, different problems.

My thoughts now are what is projected onto individuals that triggers some pathology. Pathologies develop over time due to many variables. What if CA's ego projections onto Casey were so great that she,Casey, could never live up to them, or didn't wanted to and that dynamic cause so much resentment that Casey developed the lying and deceit for the purpose of gaining control over her life. Sure a dumb way to go, but those were the skills she learned at home and in the school culture.

What if CA's ego projections were so complete that it became all about her and with her financial burdens she is the resentful one and becomes antagonistic, actually both do, and as Casey doesn't live up to her expectations, Cindy gets Caylee as a substitute and psychologically diminishes Casey's status and therefore Casey steals as a symbolic way of getting the mothering she lost.

So different kids get a different load of junk projected onto them allowing for some of the differences in their problems with adjusting. Many variables.

I have learned a great deal by reading about shadow projection as relayed through the studies of Carl Jung. Casey has been described as having no self. I guess they mean 'Self' that higher since of being as opposed to the ego self that causes all the personality problems, false self. She sure created a false life through a lot of ignorance of the alternatives, if she could see any alternatives.


There is much more with the relationships in the Anthony home that might come out later. Sure wonder if Casey wasn't scapegoated a bit as part of her lack of healthy ego/Self development. The whole area of shadow projection creates different interpretations. She has to take responsibility for her poor choices, but there could be argued that her belief system was warped by the lack of awareness of her caregivers all along.
 
Keeping in mind that information changes with time, I am sharing what I learned from a Documentary, some years ago.

The children were all from loving homes and educated parents. Physically, the children were above average in
apparence. The one girl was beautiful. In all cases the homes were in constant chaos because of the behavior of the child. As soon as the child began to interact, there
was violence against other children or parents. If there were animals, the child would hurt or try to kill them and start fires. When there were younger children in the same home, the threat of harming
the little one was a ongoing problem. There was no emotional connection between the child (sociopath) and anyone or anything. Sometimes, the child would admit they wanted to hurt or kill..with no emotional. The parents lived in terror, trying to protect all in their home, while trying to help the child they could not understand.

The point of the documentary was to remove these children and they were taken to a farm that was set up
so that there was a therapist to each child. The child was basically stripped of their own will. Every single thing they did has to be approved and controlled 24 hrs a day. It lasted for many months. The child was assigned an animal to care for as part of the treatment. By the end,
it indicated that the girl had been able to develope empathy with her therapist and the animal. It did show
that the little girl was returned home and was doing well.

However...IMO if this has been completely successful,
we would hear more about it. As I have mentioned before,
mental health care is so far down on the list, insurance is not likely to cover such treatment.

Mind Student
 
bookworm474 said:
---------------

Different kid, different problems.

My thoughts now are what is projected onto individuals that triggers some pathology. Pathologies develop over time due to many variables. What if CA's ego projections onto Casey were so great that she,Casey, could never live up to them, or didn't wanted to and that dynamic cause so much resentment that Casey developed the lying and deceit for the purpose of gaining control over her life. Sure a dumb way to go, but those were the skills she learned at home and in the school culture.

What if CA's ego projections were so complete that it became all about her and with her financial burdens she is the resentful one and becomes antagonistic, actually both do, and as Casey doesn't live up to her expectations, Cindy gets Caylee as a substitute and psychologically diminishes Casey's status and therefore Casey steals as a symbolic way of getting the mothering she lost.

So different kids get a different load of junk projected onto them allowing for some of the differences in their problems with adjusting. Many variables.

I have learned a great deal by reading about shadow projection as relayed through the studies of Carl Jung. Casey has been described as having no self. I guess they mean 'Self' that higher since of being as opposed to the ego self that causes all the personality problems, false self. She sure created a false life through a lot of ignorance of the alternatives, if she could see any alternatives.


There is much more with the relationships in the Anthony home that might come out later. Sure wonder if Casey wasn't scapegoated a bit as part of her lack of healthy ego/Self development. The whole area of shadow projection creates different interpretations. She has to take responsibility for her poor choices, but there could be argued that her belief system was warped by the lack of awareness of her caregivers all along.
Click to expand...
Great Post, Thought Provoking!
I think you may have something here! Just watching CA, even from the very beginning of all this, I felt phychologically diminished, each time she rambled on & on, blah, blah, blah, I was always trying to sift through all the unnecessary chatter to extract the important & relevant points! First, I must say, I am a sponge, easilly affected by nuances that would not bother most people. Unconsciously, I would transport myself into being a member of her family, & always had the same, overwhelming feeling of worthlessness. With that being said, I am a firecely independent person, strong in my convictions, & not easilly swayed by others. In my own experiences, I have met certain individuals with such an overpowering, intense energy field, in what feels like "their very life depends on it", personality, that to "Yield" is the only response acceptable to them. I have, many times, felt for KC living with a mother like this, & even George, as I feel people like CA are a force, like a vampire that just sucks the life right out of you, as it being necessary for their own survival....Whew! JMO!! This, in no way excuses KC's guilt, or the choices she has made. IMO, her lying & stealing were symptomatic of an emptiness, something missing, & sadly were never addressed appropriately.

In one of the jail visits, when KC said, "I'm still here", it was like someone waving a flag for some slight recognition.
 
Lavanda Dolce said:
Shar, I'm not so sure we can say that she is not BiPolar, along with a host of other personality disorders. She certainly could be...especially with some of the outrageous swings of behaviors. It's quite possible. However, again, that is not to say if she were bipolar as the cause of why she did what she did to Caylee. Even if bipolar, she knew right from wrong. Many people suffer with bipolar and they do not commit murder, habitual lying, nor steal for that matter.
Click to expand...


i'm hard pressed to think of any bipolars who've comitted murder and while i'm sure they must exist, i doubt being bipolar had anything much to do with it, so i agree w/ you, dolce.
actually, if casey were bipolar and felt that she was responsible for the death of her child she'd likely kill herself.
i'm convinced the woman is a sociopath ..... now i wonder what a sociopathic bipolar would look like when it's at home?
bipolars are sensitive, creative people driven by their emotions - casey doesn't seem to have any emotions. can the two even exist in the same human being?
i'd love an answer to that if there happen to be any psychiatrists reading...
 
reeseeva said:
Great Post, Thought Provoking!
I think you may have something here! Just watching CA, even from the very beginning of all this, I felt phychologically diminished, each time she rambled on & on, blah, blah, blah, I was always trying to sift through all the unnecessary chatter to extract the important & relevant points! First, I must say, I am a sponge, easilly affected by nuances that would not bother most people. Unconsciously, I would transport myself into being a member of her family, & always had the same, overwhelming feeling of worthlessness. With that being said, I am a firecely independent person, strong in my convictions, & not easilly swayed by others. In my own experiences, I have met certain individuals with such an overpowering, intense energy field, in what feels like "their very life depends on it", personality, that to "Yield" is the only response acceptable to them. I have, many times, felt for KC living with a mother like this, & even George, as I feel people like CA are a force, like a vampire that just sucks the life right out of you, as it being necessary for their own survival....Whew! JMO!! This, in no way excuses KC's guilt, or the choices she has made. IMO, her lying & stealing were symptomatic of an emptiness, something missing, & sadly were never addressed appropriately.

In one of the jail visits, when KC said, "I'm still here", it was like someone waving a flag for some slight recognition.
Click to expand...

Still.. a lot of people come from horrible homes and end up healthy and productive. I did. OLG did, and she had to fight her way up from a severe heredity mood disorder. Neither os us ever killed anybody. And, while she was sickest, and could not care for her child, herself, she STILL made sure he was safe and cared for.

I'm thinking she said, "I'm still here," as a bit if a rebuke to CA. CA had always got her out of trouble, before.

Agree that the As are likely "energy vamipires."
 
eddeva said:
i'm hard pressed to think of any bipolars who've comitted murder and while i'm sure they must exist, i doubt being bipolar had anything much to do with it, so i agree w/ you, dolce.
actually, if casey were bipolar and felt that she was responsible for the death of her child she'd likely kill herself.
i'm convinced the woman is a sociopath ..... now i wonder what a sociopathic bipolar would look like when it's at home?
bipolars are sensitive, creative people driven by their emotions - casey doesn't seem to have any emotions. can the two even exist in the same human being?
i'd love an answer to that if there happen to be any psychiatrists reading...
Click to expand...

I think you are correct in your diagnosis. :)
 
Mind student said:
The point of the documentary was to remove these children and they were taken to a farm that was set up
so that there was a therapist to each child. The child was basically stripped of their own will. Every single thing they did has to be approved and controlled 24 hrs a day. It lasted for many months. The child was assigned an animal to care for as part of the treatment. By the end,
it indicated that the girl had been able to develope empathy with her therapist and the animal. It did show
that the little girl was returned home and was doing well.

However...IMO if this has been completely successful,
we would hear more about it. As I have mentioned before,
mental health care is so far down on the list, insurance is not likely to cover such treatment.

Click to expand...
(respectfully snipped) The child was also stripped of the environment in which certain inevitable dynamics are present, providing her w an opportunity to learn healthier skills for interacting and meeting her needs, tools for managing her aggression, more effective coping strategies, etc. JMO
 
I have never posted a link before. I hope this is the right place.
I dont know if this has been posted yet. It is a video of her court appearance last Friday.

Interesting clip from a body language expert.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2hhJGBFAeg
 
reeseeva said:
Great Post, Thought Provoking!
I think you may have something here! Just watching CA, even from the very beginning of all this, I felt phychologically diminished, each time she rambled on & on, blah, blah, blah, I was always trying to sift through all the unnecessary chatter to extract the important & relevant points! First, I must say, I am a sponge, easilly affected by nuances that would not bother most people. Unconsciously, I would transport myself into being a member of her family, & always had the same, overwhelming feeling of worthlessness. With that being said, I am a firecely independent person, strong in my convictions, & not easilly swayed by others. In my own experiences, I have met certain individuals with such an overpowering, intense energy field, in what feels like "their very life depends on it", personality, that to "Yield" is the only response acceptable to them. I have, many times, felt for KC living with a mother like this, & even George, as I feel people like CA are a force, like a vampire that just sucks the life right out of you, as it being necessary for their own survival....Whew! JMO!! This, in no way excuses KC's guilt, or the choices she has made. IMO, her lying & stealing were symptomatic of an emptiness, something missing, & sadly were never addressed appropriately.

In one of the jail visits, when KC said, "I'm still here", it was like someone waving a flag for some slight recognition.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, we can also easily view this in the light of KC's unwillingness--even after 20 years of being CA's baby and do-no-wrong darling--to move over and allow someone else to be the center of attention. By this, I mean as the youngest (and for a couple years essentially only) child, she had never before been displaced. Caylee's arrival changed all that. And CA it seems may have just as swifly changed narcissistic suppliers. The former source (a once compliant KC) for meeting CA's neediness had long dried up and no longer available from her now rebelling daughter... after having faithfully run KC's brain for 20 years, and dutifully sparing her every possible consequence, her child had repaid her w the audacity to try in desperation to separate herself and become independent. (While CA no longer appreciated KC financially depending upon her, neither could she really accept nor permit KC to become emotionally free from her in their enmeshed battle for control.) Clearly a sick codependency as KC by then had also learned an incredible sense of entitlement and envy, how to exploit and manipulate, to deceive and control other's impressions and reactions, and to give as good as she got. And obviously her own failed attempts at establishing any genuine independence engendered great bitterness and resentment on KC's part IMO much more toward CA than Caylee. JMO
 
kiki the parrot said:
On the other hand, we can also easily view this in the light of KC's unwillingness--even after 20 years of being CA's baby and do-no-wrong darling--to move over and allow someone else to be the center of attention. By this, I mean as the youngest (and for a couple years essentially only) child, she had never before been displaced. Caylee's arrival changed all that. And CA it seems may have just as swifly changed narcissistic suppliers. The former source (a once compliant KC) for meeting CA's neediness had long dried up and no longer available from her now rebelling daughter... after having faithfully run KC's brain for 20 years, and dutifully sparing her every possible consequence, her child had repaid her w the audacity to try in desperation to separate herself and become independent. (While CA no longer appreciated KC financially depending upon her, she could never really accept nor permit KC to become emotionally free from her in their enmeshed battle for control.) Clearly a sick codependency as KC by then had also learned an incredible sense of entitlement and envy, how to exploit and manipulate, to deceive and control other's impressions and reactions, and to give as good as she got. And obviously her own failed attempts at establishing any genuine independence engendered great bitterness and resentment on KC's part IMO much more toward CA than Caylee. JMO
Click to expand...

Well stated, ITA. Also, I've been thinking about how different she looked last week, how many people commented on those very specific differences. To me, she looked more grown-up, a self-assuredness emanating from her, that almost appeared to be fulfilling? Nor did she look guilty, which if Caylee's death was due to an unsupervised moment, not directly caused by her, she would not feel guilt to what she has been charged with. I know many attributed this to her maybe being sedated, drugged, etc., but I don't agree with that. My immediate thought was,(this is probably the longest she has ever been away from Cindy) she has become the "self" she was never allowed to be. Just my thoughts.....
 
Mind student said:
Keeping in mind that information changes with time, I am sharing what I learned from a Documentary, some years ago.

The children were all from loving homes and educated parents. Physically, the children were above average in
apparence. The one girl was beautiful. In all cases the homes were in constant chaos because of the behavior of the child. As soon as the child began to interact, there
was violence against other children or parents. If there were animals, the child would hurt or try to kill them and start fires. When there were younger children in the same home, the threat of harming
the little one was a ongoing problem. There was no emotional connection between the child (sociopath) and anyone or anything. Sometimes, the child would admit they wanted to hurt or kill..with no emotional. The parents lived in terror, trying to protect all in their home, while trying to help the child they could not understand.

The point of the documentary was to remove these children and they were taken to a farm that was set up
so that there was a therapist to each child. The child was basically stripped of their own will. Every single thing they did has to be approved and controlled 24 hrs a day. It lasted for many months. The child was assigned an animal to care for as part of the treatment. By the end,
it indicated that the girl had been able to develope empathy with her therapist and the animal. It did show
that the little girl was returned home and was doing well.

However...IMO if this has been completely successful,
we would hear more about it. As I have mentioned before,
mental health care is so far down on the list, insurance is not likely to cover such treatment.

Mind Student
Click to expand...


Was this mostly about children who were adopted from Russian orphanages? I saw a great documentary about a month ago about children who were abused and neglected in Eastern European orphanages, and then eventually adopted by American parents - and the children were so cold and violent to the parents, the parents thought about giving them up. But this woman runs a totally controlled farm/camp where the children learned to respect one another and let down their guards, and it ended with one of the kids (who was about 12 or so) finally hugging her adoptive mother and saying I love you. Really great, even if its not the same one you were talking about!
 
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