Casey & Family Psychological Profile #6

[magic-cat]

Frankly I am not very clear on this. Seems to me that Casey is emotionless, love starved, do anything for a thrill because she is numb inside.
HER REACTIONS and her replies while calculated are as if she has NO BLOOD IN HER VEINS she is Ice Cold.
That is not humane....It has to be a mental illness.
The Mind directs the Body how to feel. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
But she does not feel. I can see that she can understand what she is doing, but she has a cross wire IMO I am not a Dr. so I am not going to label it, but the wires are definitely crossed up stairs.

I do realize that a big part of the legal consideration of mental illness is KNOWINGLY doing something wrong.
While she went through her actions mentally to hide, lie, I fail to see emotion:
one picture has her with eyes bulging like a crazed lost soul.
Mentally she knew, but the body feels and her body didn't feel - it was inhumane - I think JB saw it too? but the law will prevail here, it seems that it is not going in that direction.

BUT CERTAINLY NOT BECAUSE there is no merit for insanity , normal people do not do what she did and act numb.
Let them continue with the Nanny had her.....But let there be justice for Caylee.
MO

What you have described here is textbook sociopathy. They FEEL nothing. They manipulate others as pawns in their "game of life". They seek gratification of their desires at ANY cost to ANY one around them and do not worry about tomorrow. They adapt to new situations easily and often will be the "life of the party" when on the inside they are like ICE. It is a personality disorder, because although they do not FEEL the proper emotions they do KNOW the difference in right and wrong at ALL times and make their choices to do what they do despite this knowledge.

She is not a "normal" person. She is one with a likely personality disorder, which makes her different, but it does not meet the legal guidelines of insane, simply because they know right from wrong and consciously CHOOSE wrong in spite of what may happen.

It's a very sad state to exist within I realize and perhaps the definitions should be revisited concerning the guidelines that we use as a nation for what constitutes "insanity" or "mentally ill" and realign what we now know about mental illness with those guidelines so they reflect the reality of mental illness more humanely.

 

[songline]

BTW I could not even begin to form an opinion of what I think KC truly is mentally, until I know the facts of the case (after trial I guess if ever).

It makes a BIG difference to me to know when and why she duct taped Caylee's mouth. If it was while she was alive to stifle screams or to keep her quiet while she was in the trunk during partying-- BAD ENOUGH. If it was to keep her quiet because KC knew she was going to kill her- 100% EVIL no question about it. I think the first is evil too- but it's just not the same as #2 scenario. And if something accidentally happened to Caylee, and the duct tape was used after the fact to keep her mouth closed- this is awful too, but again, very different from the first 2 scenarios.

The WHY's behind KC's actions make a big difference to me and should to jurors I would think (except KC's probably going to remain in denial). KC at least owes these answers to her family.

Yes the information you seek is very sensible:
I doubt that Casey will ever explain or tell it like it is.
BUT I have to tell you, my entire family is very ethical, honorable, and honest,
My bipolar daughter + personality issues too, is way off balance, and most people can not tell for long time. She lies just to lie, even when it is not to hide something.
SO....Having said that I do not trust that you will ever get straight answers to any of these questions. IMO She is not sane. But I realize that is not what the Law will look to as a definition of insanity.

 

[songline]

Most human beings cannot fathom that someone could murder their own child without being insane.

That being said, to prove insanity in court, they would have to show that KC has no idea as to what she was doing - not on June 16th, the act, not back in March, with the internet searches, not during the party time between 6/16 and 7/15, not during the ZFG references, not when leading the police on a wild goose chase, and she did herself in when she stopped at Universal and turned around to tell LE "OK, you got me. I lied."

Insanity would not know truth from lies, fact from fiction.

Knowing is one thing.
Feeling is another thing.
there in lies a problem. JMO
When a person can not feel - something is not right.

 

[songline]

What you have described here is textbook sociopathy. They FEEL nothing. They manipulate others as pawns in their "game of life". They seek gratification of their desires at ANY cost to ANY one around them and do not worry about tomorrow. They adapt to new situations easily and often will be the "life of the party" when on the inside they are like ICE. It is a personality disorder, because although they do not FEEL the proper emotions they do KNOW the difference in right and wrong at ALL times and make their choices to do what they do despite this knowledge.

She is not a "normal" person. She is one with a likely personality disorder, which makes her different, but it does not meet the legal guidelines of insane, simply because they know right from wrong and consciously CHOOSE wrong in spite of what may happen.

It's a very sad state to exist within I realize and perhaps the definitions should be revisited concerning the guidelines that we use as a nation for what constitutes "insanity" or "mentally ill" and realign what we now know about mental illness with those guidelines so they reflect the reality of mental illness more humanely.

GREAT POST - :angel:
I totally agree with you.

 

[Micheline]

It has been mentioned a few times that Casey is/was emotionless, and her going to party seems to proof of that.

I do wonder though if she had no emotions about Caylee, why she would upload the last picture of Caylee on her laptop June 17 afternoon, how does that fit in the thought/emotion pattern of a sociopath? TIA

 

[amethyst221]

The court isn't going to make special rules for Casey A because she's a sociopath who can't feel or is just "off." She might, for example, be able to murder her own child to get an obstacle out of the way, and feel no remorse at all. But she still clearly knows that it is wrong in the eyes of the law to do so. She knows right from wrong, even if she feels she shouldn't have to be bound by these rules. She is warped as can be, but not legally insane.

 

[justthinkin]

Psychiatry can be quite confusing. A psychopath will not admit to anything being wrong with them, and while it may seem similar, this is vastly different from someone with Bipolar Disorder in a manic state, who again, will not admit anything's wrong with them.

In the instance of psychopathy, the person's thinking is clear, they know right from wrong. They just choose to do what they want to do regardless of the outcome or who it impacts. They are not bothered by a conscience.

Someone with full blown mania is insane. They are not capable of functioning in the normal world until the mania is brought under control. If they committed a terrible crime while they were manic, and were convicted, they could not function well in a prison setting. A psychopath can easily function in a prison setting, and will make themselves right at home. Although their brains differ from the norm, this is not considered grounds for insanity in the legal sense of the word. In a hospital setting, a psychopath could create all sorts of problems for the doctors, nurses, and other patients.

Andrea Yates is hospitalized because that's where she belongs.

I wrote this in hopes of clarifying for some who aren't yet latching onto the significance of the differences. Hope this helps.

I think you can make sense of it by visualizing which setting is more appropriate for the defendant, should she be convicted.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I respect your opinion, but I can give you some facts because I have a severely bipolar daughter.
THEY DO lie and cover up a lot of things even thing they do not need to lie about at all. I read a lot about this. It seems to be proven to be part of the illness.
It is very hard for the family to understand sometimes, why they do what they do. As a mom, therapists have told me that I am highly perceptive and see things more clearly then many.
IMO it is because a Mom should have a 6th sense about her kids.
Cindy should have seen this imbalance long ago.

But that doesn't mean she's insane.

 

[GatorFL]

Casey's not insane. She's cunning. Devious. Manipulative. But not insane.
Insane is not lying and covering up the deed you've done.
Insane is Andrea Yates, who killed her 5 children, then called her husband and LE. She met LE at her front door and told them what she'd done.
Casey continued on with her daily life, lying to everyone about the whereabouts of Caylee. Little Caylee was out of sight, and out of mind.
Casey is a narcissistic , superficial sociopath.
Her behavior was crazy, but Casey is not.

I agree but you're missing a couple of points. She was a pathological liar and lived in a fantasy world. Something happened which caused her to murder her daughter. Whether or not that catalyst was PPD, a continuation of her pathalogical lying, or something else, I think her best shot is an insanity defense. There's certainly lots of material for a defense "expert" to diagnose her as insane.

 

[SoSueMe]

Why not go for an insanity plea?

By legal standards it won't fly. If Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Kemper or Son of Sam weren't found to be legally insane, that should tell us how difficult it is to prove by legal standards.

What you and I find to be insane and what doctors and the justice system deem to be insane are all totally different. IMO

 

[Jolynna]

I agree but you're missing a couple of points. She was a pathological liar and lived in a fantasy world. Something happened which caused her to murder her daughter. Whether or not that catalyst was PPD, a continuation of her pathalogical lying, or something else, I think her best shot is an insanity defense. There's certainly lots of material for a defense "expert" to diagnose her as insane.

She fantasized. She didn't "live" in a fantasy world. She didn't lie because she thought her stories were true. She lied to manipulate people. There is a difference.

Casey is the same as the BTK killer or John Gacey or Susan Smith or Penny Beadreau or Scott Peterson or Devon Epp's mom. All of these liars fantasized. In every case their desires were put over the rights and lives of others.

Casey isn't unique.

JMO

 

[GatorFL]

She fantasized. She didn't "live" in a fantasy world. She didn't lie because she thought her stories were true. She lied to manipulate people. There is a difference.

Examples:

"Caylee and I are staying with Zani." meant "Caylee and I are sleeping over with RM."

"Dad is having a stroke." meant "I don't want to drive you to Jacksonville even though I promised because I have a hot new boyfriend and I will die if I am not with him or talking to him every minute."

"I stole from Amy because I was desperate." meant "I needed a new push-up bra and beer."

Casey is no diffferent that BTK or John Gacey or Susan Smith or Penny Beadreau or Scott Peterson or Devon Epp's mom. She killed Caylee to satisfy a selfish desire.

She isn't unique.

JMO

Agreed, for the most part. I think she was living in fantasyland and they lying carried over into normal aspects of her life.

You and I are not the attorney's involved in the case. A flat out "not guilty" plea is where she is at now, and even if it is Casey making that decision, her dream team is negligent if they aren't trying to sway her to an insanity case.

 

[cajun]

She's not insane or mentally ill

 

[GatorFL]

She's not insane or mentally ill

I guarantee the defense could find a hundred "experts" to testify otherwise.

 

[Dr. Pennypacker]

I guarantee the defense could find a hundred "experts" to testify otherwise.

Oh that's for sure.

You pay and they say. :liar:

 

[cajun]

I guarantee the defense could find a hundred "experts" to testify otherwise.

I'm sure they testimony could be bought, still doesnt make it true.

 

[casual_observer]

i don't think they can at this point because they've been sticking with the nanny story... it would be one thing if she was crying "nanny" and jb was going "uh... don't listen to my client - she's cuckoo for cocoa puffs."

 

[SoSueMe]

i don't think they can at this point because they've been sticking with the nanny story... it would be one thing if she was crying "nanny" and jb was going "uh... don't listen to my client - she's cuckoo for cocoa puffs."

OMG, that is too funny (cuckoo for cocoa puffs) LOL. I really think they could change the plea. I still say her best defense would have been accidental death. At this point it would still be better than the nanny defense. She could say she did all those horrible things because she was scared. Yes, duct tape included - when she got scared, she tried to make it look like an abduction.

Geez, it looks like I'm for KC, which I am not. I just think she is not getting the best defense. Sticking with the "Nanny" theory is sure suicide.

Sue

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't know if sociopaths are considered insane, as this is what I think Casey is.

Sociopaths have NO FEELINGS , and no sense of "being sorry for what they do". The only time that they are "sorry" is when they are caught, and have to face being locked up, or being executed for their crimes. Then they can cry like a baby.But all the time that they are crying, they are thinking " how can I get out of here"? (reminds me so much of Casey)

Sociopaths lack all empathy for others. So, they will cry if hurt, but will honestly not understand why someone else would cry if THEY are hurt. Like very young children, they really don't understand that other people are real, valid human beings instead of cardboard cutouts. In a way it's like a birth defect (although psychologists don't agree on if it's inborn or from early socialization.)

Sociopaths tend to use others for their own purposes. So, it's not entirely accurate to say they don't feel emotions. They still get angry or feel sad. They just don't understand other people's emotions. They will never feel remorseful or guilty for hurting someone else.

Sociopaths go their whole lives without ever feeling that warmth, pretending to be outgoing and charismatic, but really being introverted and intractable. They watch others and imitate the feelings that happen only in connection with people, but cannot feel them. Hidden envy of healthy people is often at the root of their attacks; they seek to ruin what they cannot have. Martha Stout, author of "The Sociopath Next Door," says that it is akin to a person parched with thirst and unable to satisfy it by drinking anything. Some say that sociopaths feel either nothing, hateful spite, or a strange, incomprehensible "static" that is their brain's attempt to process what it cannot. This latter is part of the restlessness that drives them to seek excitement -- and, perhaps, victims.

Wow, this is the best explanation I've seen in laymen terms.

My wish is that someone would figure out how this happens. It would be of great benefit to society, families, etc.

You know how there is right and left side to the brain? Maybe there is an "others box" that somehow does not get checked. My dad had a stroke and we took him in for tests to see the part/parts of the brain that were most affected.

Also how does one measure selfishness, narcissism, etc. against sociopathic person? A lot of youngsters are selfish "all about me".

Maybe there should be a test. Person falls down right in front of you, bleeding from the ears - do you step over him and smile?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This is what the insanity plea looks like to me.

Let's pretend -

I'm the same me as I've always been, no criminal record. Upon entering my own home, I find someone holding my child hostage or molesting him/her. Before I can think of what to do, I pull out my gun and shoot him dead.

I would then plead, "guilty by means of insanity".