Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

[ExcaliburX]

A few queries on Droc's statements:

1. Droc claims that he called up Rod Gillespie, the builder who did the unit dev behind TT's house in Hampden Rd South Freo and made some story up about needing to access the cellar. The builder's response was "someone else rang up with a similar story and has already accessed the cellar and told Droc the date that the unkown person accessed the cellar was the Australlia Day weekend in 1996 when SS went missing".

Problem;

Droc didn't suspect TT of being the CSK until after CG went missing 13 months later. So he had to make that phone call to Gillespie after this time which means there was at least a 13 month gap between Droc's alleged phone call and the unnamed person who approached Gillespie with the "I'm the owner's son story". In fact, reading Droc's post from BF below, he didn't make the call until years later;



a. Is it likely Gillespie would have remembered this years later (after Droc returned from Eastern States)?
b. Would the builder have remembered that it was the Australia Day long weekend?

2. Droc thinks that because TT told an undercover reporter and a PI that he had never been interviewed by Macro then it must be true and Marco are lying when they say they have interviewed TT twice. Droc uses this as one of his main arguments for police dishonesty and corruption.

I'm not saying it isn't the case but there's just no real evidence to make the jump that Droc did. He put two and two together and came up with 5.

Makes me wonder how many other times he did this. I'd suggest a lot.

3. In Droc's leter to TT he links TT and his mate to Gerard Ross and Michele and her new boyfriend to Lisa Govan in Kalgoorlie. He says they're all conicidences but no matter what time Michele returned to Perth he would have linked her to the most recent murder.

Another example of Droc making dubious leaps of logic.

4. BF post 1413. Droc claims Michele told him she was involved in the murders but at another point he got quite frustrated why someone suggested he said Michele tried to groom him to be involved. He clarified "she tried to groom me but she never told me what for". Contradictory and wishy-washy.

5. Droc says he has flight records of Michelle flying into Perth from Brisbane two weeks before JR murder. Post 1683. How would he have this? The flight took place 8 months before Droc started thinking TT was the CSK. Sounds to me like Droc is speculating.

6. Droc writes this (in a PM from memory)



He doesn't seem to be able to distinguish between fact and theory. He joins dots and makes links that aren't necessarily there.

He tells a fascinating story but I think he's made some very dubious leaps of logic and the whole story about the cellar and the builder sounds like he's stretched the truth to suit his theory.

It could be possible that TT and his sicko mates are into some sort of really sordid BDSM scene and this is what Michele was grooming him to get involved in and this is why he thought TT was such a sick ****.

All very true IF you believe he only had suspicions later and didn't know the whole deal and/or wasnt involved from the start.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-96#post-37393206

I don't and doubt he actually contacted plod until after he had a falling out with the others and started covering himself with the stat decs and claims about the suspicious alibi and Freo site - knowing with his record he may end up the sole fall guy.

The Freo story sounds like BS.

And also in not mentioning his Myaree address - which given the fire and his deception over it on BF should be a focus of attention.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Note the comments about the dog hair in the GR case.

He mentions his dog in his "alibi" post on BF:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-75#post-37327008

Drocs dog would have been about 1-2 at the time of GR given it died aged 19 this year.

Another find:

http://www.booksie.com/droc

Interesting Droc claims he is looking for a dumping ground and the dog is child friendly.

Interesting to know exactly what Drocs conviction and crim record indicates regarding victim gender and age.

Remember he was incarcerated until age 31 per the wake video - 5 years for counterfeiting and 2 for unlawful carnal knowledge - sums don't add up. What was he incarcerated for during the other periods for?

And had access to 27 cars since his release according to Christabel. That he drove around late at night on "nocturnal activities" with John B again according to the video.

Here are links to his claims about the cortina and GR:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/search/68033250/?q=cortina&t=post&o=date&c[node]=370&c[user][0]=159470

His 10 March posts in particular are quite telling.

The dog hairs found on GR's body - that's a massive stretch to suggest it might be Droc. A lot of people have dogs.

No idea on victim gender and age. I'm certainly curious though. But think it's a stretch that there is any link to GR.

The wake vid is 45 minutes long. I haven't sat through the whole thing. Does it say he was locked up from dot to 31, or does he was incarcerated until 31 but meaning "he got out of Freo jail at 31".

My read on the nocturnal activities with John is that they were grafting/stealing. One woman mentions moving stuff from "here" to "there" and I took that as meaning they were stealing things from others and moving them to someone else (their homes, a *advertiser censored* shop, fence etc)

In the March 10 posts all I see is gibberish. It doesn't help that Droc quoted himself all the time but was addressing something someone else said.


I think the whole Droc story is a good read but I think it's fanciful. Could he have been the CSK? It's possible his whole dealings with police were designed to pre-empt an excuse to involvement, but I doubt that too.

 

[ExcaliburX]

The dog hairs found on GR's body - that's a massive stretch to suggest it might be Droc. A lot of people have dogs.

No idea on victim gender and age. I'm certainly curious though. But think it's a stretch that there is any link to GR

Many people have dogs.

Only one with a dog (in fact a puppy at the time of the abduction and murder), a convicted sex offender on minors no less, made online claims his ex-mates in a cortina station wagon were potentially involved in the GR case.

17 years later mind you - and also speculating about the cause of death.

You might recall Droc made zero admissions about any personal involvement despite all he claimed to know pre and post his "suspicions" - and did plenty of deflecting onto his former cohort of friends.

If his previous crimes involved male children the dog hair aspect may very well be relevant.

As for the "nocturnal activities" being graft/theft, they would assume that wouldn't they? These are the very upstanding people after all who took him in after prison and supported him. They wouldn't be saying he was out hunting for victims.

PS: creepy man continues his YouTube madness. Why?

 

[billywhizz]

The stat decs are arse covering I think.

Why else do you need stat decs done up proving you gave information to the police?

I guarantee not one other person who gave information about the CSK then went and got a stat dec done up

Combine this with his 11 year hiatus on his crusade.. which was taken up again in 2011 when the new detectives started working on the case. All along claims of 'poor me, I keep getting dragged back into this by media, police etc' - WHEN he was the one that set up the blog in 2011 alerting people to the fact it was TT. No one (ie. users on CSK forums) would ever have known anything about any of this if he never set up that blog in the first place. No sympathy for victims, victims families was ever given. It was all about how tough life had been for him since he reported TT back in 1997.

No one ever saw his 100 page file.. All we saw was dribs and drabs eeked out over a few months. Most of them were letters asking why no one had received his information - but we never saw proof of the original information that was sent. Final act was a letter written to TT in which Droc asks him about a hundred questions. Was he actually expecting a reply?

His memorial vid at the church - it has members of the church claiming to have covered for Noel when police came around looking for him. WTF? One guy even claims to have put up a bond/bail of $10,000 (20 years ago - obscene amount of money) for him. Again, WTF? And why?

 

[Itsasmallworldafter]

I started to watch the vid watched about 10 mins of it , it was beyond cretinism

 

[Bartholemeus]

I've all but ruled out Drocs story as is on the basis;

1. I think police investigated it back in 1998/1999 (although this is the precise time they their cross hairs on LW and we know Caporn and WAPOL have a documented history of ignoring evidence that doesn't fit their line of inquiry)
2. There's a few holes in Droc's story. I think he's been a bit liberal with the truth and stretched it match his theory
3. Droc has shown a propensity to make irrational links. That doesn't mean those links don't exist, but he's made a few and once you start making dubious links on top of other dubious links the chance of error multiplies


What I haven't yet all but ruled out is Droc being involved with TT and using this allegations as a pre-emptive strike to distance himself from involvement should he and TT come under serious scrutiny. Bear in mind there is documentation of Droc using this strategy previously;

At 15:25 in Droc's wake video one of his friends relates a story and Droc and his mate out on the graft one night with a heap of stolen gear in the back of their ute. A cop car sees them and slows down so Droc pre-empts a potential bust by pulling over and waving the cop over and saying he had a flat tire and wanted a push.

The stat decs

It's certainly possible that he had the stat decs made up so there was documented proof that he had approached the police about TT. But he already had letters from the police Commissioner saying they had received his claims and had investigated them.

The time lines for approaching police

Droc claims he called the Macro hotline 4 times in the weeks after the CG abduction. We don't know if this is true or not. We also don't know if police have those records or not. Droc claims he sent a written statement in November 1997 (8 months after the CG murder). Police claim they are unaware of this. We don't know whether Droc ever sent it, or Macro lost it, or Macro discarded and concealed it. So potentially Droc may not have contacted Macro until as late as November 1997 or December 1998 and fabricated the earlier contact to cover his *advertiser censored*.

Problems with the timelines

LW was under surveillance from approximately October 1997 (and possibly earlier). The LW sting was in April 1998 and I believe this was leaked to the media almost immediately after. If Droc did send them that letter in November 1997 then why would he follow up in December 1998 when LW had better odds od being the CSK than Nat Fyfe has of winning this year's Brownlow? Maybe just to get some form of written proof in case the tide changes? But then he got his proof in the form of multiple letters by the commissioner acknowedging they got his info, had investigated it, and had disregarded it. There'd also be no reason to then go on with a stat dec after all that either.

If we assume Droc is crafty enough to plant some mitigating evidence before the fact "what do you mean, I told you guys TT was the CSK and you didn't believe me, here's letters from the commissioner and a stat dec" then we must assume he's also smart enough to get his evidence and walk away given LW was white hot. He hammered them not stop with phone calls and letters and had 2 highly esteemed professionals approach the commissioner on his behalf.

I think it's more likely Droc genuinely thought TT was the CSK. Keep in mind that it appears Droc was in love with Michele but Michele seems to have been TT's girlfriend. Droc actually never comes out and says "Michele was TT's girlfriend" but he does let slip he used to hold all her belongings after they fought and that they fought before each of the murders. This may have tainted Droc's logic.


A potential scenario

Droc knows TT, as a taxi driver was called in to East Freo motor registry to speak to police as part of Macro's drive to speak to all Perth's 2,500 taxi drivers (May 1997). Approximately 4-5 months after the CG muder TT tells Droc and his GF that he has just been interviewed by Macro (this is in Droc's stat dec). Droc is spooked because he knows soon they will ask TT for DNA and at this stage the public generally assumes Macro has DNA. Droc decides on a pre-emptive plan to distance himself from TT. He decides to report TT so if TT is busted Droc can say "why would I be involved? I'm the one who dobbed him in". So Droc sends them a letter in November 1997. He fabricates that he made four calls to the Macro hotline.

He hears nothing back and in April 1998 learns LW is numero uno suspect. But he wonders why he hasn't been contacted. He's shizzing himself so in December 1998 sends them the letter again by registered mail and make contact to get proof that he has made statements.

Police then interview TT and it doesn't take long for TT to work out one of his co-conspirators has put his name up. TT asks Droc why and Drocs comes up with some lame excuse but they both know Droc was covering his own *advertiser censored*. TT insists that Droc now drop a heap of red herrings that don't add up so police dismiss his story.

Droc tells police about snuff movies and the cellar and a few other things that don't add up. Police dismiss it, especially since they have a raging hard on for LW.

Fast forward 10+ years later and a new taskforce is set up. They go through everything because they believe, somewhere something was missing and it was probably something unlikely. They get to Droc and decide they better have a closer look and interview him. Droc hasn't seen TT for years and goes back into survival mode and protectng himself first and writes the blog and approaches media identities.

Droc gets asked to post on BF. He does so and starts his story off with TT being the main suspect (because he needs to be consistent with the story he has spruiked for years) and gradually shifts blame to Michele. The mentioning of TT's mates are also red herrings as the bringing up of Gerard Ross.

TT realises his best course of action is to say nothing and carry on doing what he is an expert at (being creepy). Droc and TT briefly cross paths on FB. A private message is sent and they meet and decide the house at 235 Marmion has to go.

Could it be Droc and TT and no one else? Could they be the guys in the Princess Rd Taxi (DM book says it happened in Bay View Tce)?


IMO I highly doubt it but you never know.

 

[Bartholemeus]

It needs to be mentioned that Droc agreed to drop his action against police regarding losing his statements but as soon as he found out LW was a suspect he contacted them and resumed his complaint.

I don't think a guilty person who is a crafty criminal would do that. For me it is what it is; Droc suspected Mr Creepy was the CSK and became obsessessed with it to the point where he made links that weren't based on fact.

 

[Mel 1303]

I have to agree- Droc sounds as though he truly believed that he knew what happened, and built the evidence around it, even if it did need a bit of bending at times. Reading some of his writing online, and listening to the memorial video, he comes across as a man who was always on a crusade. I feel quite sad for him after reading some of his online stuff- he sure was a complicated character.

 

[Itsasmallworldafter]

Isn't a obmision a confession, to put yourself at the same location as others accused at the same time , knowing the peeps and making refrence to the victims , isn't that grounds to investigate ?

 

[Bartholemeus]

Isn't a obmision a confession, to put yourself at the same location as others accused at the same time , knowing the peeps and making refrence to the victims , isn't that grounds to investigate ?

By "obmission" do you mean "admission"?

I thought you said you knew who the CSK's were and it wasn't any of this crew? Do I have that wrong?

 

[ExcaliburX]

So that pretty much summarises Droc's claims. Now it's all in one spot we can pull it apart and discuss.

He went to extraordinary and inordinate lengths to seek vengeance on his ex mate (and then putting his other ex friends in the frame at the death) for stealing the woman of his dreams - if you believe nothing of his claims as you appear to indicate.

And involved his powerful friends and supporters at their peril (with the risk of ruining their reputations) to achieve that vengeance.

 

[Bartholemeus]

He went to extraordinary and inordinate lengths to seek vengeance on his ex mate (and then putting his other ex friends in the frame at the death) for stealing the woman of his dreams - if you believe nothing of his claims as you appear to indicate.

And involved his powerful friends and supporters at their peril (with the risk of ruining their reputations) to achieve that vengeance.

I never suggested he did the whole thing out of spiteful vengeance. I suggested he may have acted in a biased manner because of what happened. There's a fair difference.

And I haven't ruled it out completely either. I just think it's unlikely.

 

[ExcaliburX]

The stat decs are arse covering I think.

Why else do you need stat decs done up proving you gave information to the police?

I guarantee not one other person who gave information about the CSK then went and got a stat dec done up

Combine this with his 11 year hiatus on his crusade.. which was taken up again in 2011 when the new detectives started working on the case. All along claims of 'poor me, I keep getting dragged back into this by media, police etc' - WHEN he was the one that set up the blog in 2011 alerting people to the fact it was TT. No one (ie. users on CSK forums) would ever have known anything about any of this if he never set up that blog in the first place. No sympathy for victims, victims families was ever given. It was all about how tough life had been for him since he reported TT back in 1997.

No one ever saw his 100 page file.. All we saw was dribs and drabs eeked out over a few months. Most of them were letters asking why no one had received his information - but we never saw proof of the original information that was sent. Final act was a letter written to TT in which Droc asks him about a hundred questions. Was he actually expecting a reply?

His memorial vid at the church - it has members of the church claiming to have covered for Noel when police came around looking for him. WTF? One guy even claims to have put up a bond/bail of $10,000 (20 years ago - obscene amount of money) for him. Again, WTF? And why?

Well said.

Another question - if he was so convinced it was his ex mate (with no spite or vengeance involved) and he himself had no involvement, why didn't he report all his suspicions about the crew to police - including his later claims about GR, Brown and Govan - in 1998-1999?

Exactly - why the 11 year hiatus?

Why only vent all online after he himself has been interviewed and refused to provide a formal statement - where he could have outlined all his suspicions on the record if he was in fact blameless and genuine?

What was the true motivation behind the actions and expanded claims in his final months?

His friends reckon he was happy and lucid before he passed. Not insane, not delusional..

Zero empathy from him in 400+ posts.

Nor from the Russian creepoid who continues to plumb the depths.

 

[Itsasmallworldafter]

How did he die ? I wanna see a death cert

 

[Bartholemeus]

Well said.

Another question - if he was so convinced it was his ex mate (with no spite or vengeance involved) and he himself had no involvement, why didn't he report all his suspicions about creepoid and his crew to police - including his later claims about GR, Brown and Govan - in 1998-1999?

He did report it. Sat with them for 90 minutes on May 10 1999 and told them the whole snuff theory.

It's reasonable to think Brown, Govan and GR were after thoughts. He seemed to get more irrational as years went by.

Exactly - why the 11 year hiatus?

Maybe he moved on. The police set up that new task force in 2011 and approached him. That set him off again. Whether "set off" means started making genuine accusations again, or making accusations to cover his *advertiser censored* again is unknown.

Why only vent all online after he himself has been interviewed and refused to provide a formal statement - where he could have outlined all his suspicions on the record if he was in fact blameless and genuine?

1. He did make a formal statement. Many times.
2. He also approached media
3. He only came to BF because someone invited him. He did make the blog though. His side of the story is he was frustrated no one would listen and he believes police were burying his claims.

What was the true motivation behind the actions and expanded claims in his final months?

Remains to be seen

H

is friends reckon he was happy and lucid before he passed. Not insane, not delusional..

You don't have to be mentally unwell to get obsessed with something and make incorrect judgements

 

[ExcaliburX]

It's reasonable to think Brown, Govan and GR were after thoughts. He seemed to get more irrational as years went by

Three additional murders - pretty massive afterthoughts Bart.

None of his friends thought him irrational. Highly regarded professional supporters to his allegations. Watch the video.

<modsnip>

 

[MyLeftFoot]

He did report it. Sat with them for 90 minutes on May 10 1999 and told them the whole snuff theory.

It's reasonable to think Brown, Govan and GR were after thoughts. He seemed to get more irrational as years went by.



Maybe he moved on. The police set up that new task force in 2011 and approached him. That set him off again. Whether "set off" means started making genuine accusations again, or making accusations to cover his *advertiser censored* again is unknown.

1. He did make a formal statement. Many times.
2. He also approached media
3. He only came to BF because someone invited him. He did make the blog though. His side of the story is he was frustrated no one would listen and he believes police were burying his claims.

Remains to be seen

HYou don't have to be mentally unwell to get obsessed with something and make incorrect judgements

Bartholemeus.....Do you know when in 2011 the new task force was set up?

*Good posts BTW!

 

[Bartholemeus]

Bartholemeus.....Do you know when in 2011 the new task force was set up?

*Good posts BTW!

Nope. Post by Billy:

From Post article Mar 20 2015 : A team of 12 detectives, separate from the original Macro task forces, has been commit-ted to the inquiry over the past three years.

I found the link in BF thread to the article but link has taken down. I don't believe there are specific dates but it seems evident that the new team are having a fresh look.

I would assume:

1. They set up a priority list
2. The LW and PW/SR investigations are probably quite thorough already so prioritised to investigate some of the other lower suspects first. Obviously Droc has been questioned. He says TT was questioned in 2011. How would he know this? The only way he'd know this are the taskforce interviewed him in depth about TT and relayed some of TT responses.

I wonder:

1. How in depth did they go into TT and Droc?
2. Did they pick up the link with the house fire? And did they question both men over it?
3. Did they go over the site with some heat seeking technology?

 

[Itsasmallworldafter]

Shuks if someone was ringing my family up in the middle of the night and organising , meetings with police , it would start to ring alarm bells

 

[Bartholemeus]

All the main suspects have done things that are alarming......

Which is why they are suspects!