CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 7

[newone]

Does Holmes have a record of attacking his jailers or violently acting out against the people in a courtroom setting? Not as far as I know. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to demonize the defendant as some sort of rabid dog who is so out-of-control he must be chained down. The dense attorney is remiss in not demanding an end to this treatment.

IIRC Julie Schenecker was shackled similarily in Florida during the trial for murders of her two teenaged children and she had no previous record of attacks in community. Cannot recall details of whether she was shackled to the floor but she was definitely shackled during the trial.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Does Holmes have a record of attacking his jailers or violently acting out against the people in a courtroom setting? Not as far as I know. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to demonize the defendant as some sort of rabid dog who is so out-of-control he must be chained down. The dense attorney is remiss in not demanding an end to this treatment.

I don't think they are chained to the floor. Never heard anyone being chained to the floor. As I recall its protocol for accused murderers to have their feet shackled. Jodi Arias wore them too. They learn to walk with them on so sometimes it's hard to tell.

 

[bexlex]

I transcribed the entire thing (to the best of my ability) because his handwriting was extremely hard to read. After typing it out, it made more sense to me as a whole. I'm not saying what he wrote made any sense whatsoever... but it made sense in a way that tied the gibberish or mindless rambling pages together for me and gave me a better understanding of what I believe he was thinking when he wrote it.

ETA: You are reading that right. And you're also correct about it being strange stuff!

could you post it here? the photo copies are tough to read.....

 

[StillMindmatters]

Does Holmes have a record of attacking his jailers or violently acting out against the people in a courtroom setting? Not as far as I know. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to demonize the defendant as some sort of rabid dog who is so out-of-control he must be chained down. The dense attorney is remiss in not demanding an end to this treatment.

To shackle or chain a murder defendant is a common practice in US criminal courthouses throughout the country. However, IF there is additional security (restraints) it doesn't seem unreasonable given what JH's defense is, he is essentially saying that he does not understand the difference between right and wrong, and that he cannot control murderous impulses.

Factually speaking, JH is claiming that he is "not guilty" of murder and attempted murder by reason of insanity. In order to use the the insanity defense in the state of Colorado, the defendant has to be afflicted with two central mental conditions, i.e., 1) Cognitive insanity, which is an inability to distinguish right from wrong (M'Naghten Rule), and 2) Irresistible Impulse, which is the impulse to commit an unlawful or criminal act which cannot be resisted or overcome by the person because their mental condition is such that he or she has NO CONTROL of his or her free will, lost their power of self-control, and they do not have any choice as to their actions.

JMHO but given the fact that he has admitted repeatedly to hating people and having murderous thoughts, and he is claiming he can't control his impulses, I can't blame the courts at all for taking extra precautions and using extra restraints.

 

[cujenn81]

Would you mind sending just the pages hard to understand.?

Is there a way to post your version online and then send a link for everyone to view.?

Thank you

I created a Tumblr account so I'd have a shareable link... which makes it easier for those who want to read it. The notebook's pages aren't separated into different posts or anything but the page numbers are indicated throughout the transcription.
I imagine everyone can just skim over the ones they don't care about reading.

Anyway, here is the link:
http://thecrimediaries.tumblr.com/post/120372308211/james-holmes-notebook

 

[StillMindmatters]

I created a Tumblr account so I'd have a shareable link... which makes it easier for those who want to read it. The notebook's pages aren't separated into different posts or anything but the page numbers are indicated throughout the transcription.
I imagine everyone can just skim over the ones they don't care about reading.

Anyway, here is the link:
http://thecrimediaries.tumblr.com/post/120372308211/james-holmes-notebook

Thank you very much Cujenn.

 

[cujenn81]

Thank you very much Cujenn.

You're quite welcome!

 

[jilly]

Does Holmes have a record of attacking his jailers or violently acting out against the people in a courtroom setting? Not as far as I know. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to demonize the defendant as some sort of rabid dog who is so out-of-control he must be chained down. The dense attorney is remiss in not demanding an end to this treatment.

Not that we've heard. The only jail house abuse apparently is others in lock up who yell something at him when he's being transported.

In view of what he did and the fact that the jury can't see his feet chained, I don't really see anything wrong with it. In any event, if the defense has objected on the basis that it's prejudical, it appears the Judge is fine with it.

 

[jilly]

I created a Tumblr account so I'd have a shareable link... which makes it easier for those who want to read it. The notebook's pages aren't separated into different posts or anything but the page numbers are indicated throughout the transcription.
I imagine everyone can just skim over the ones they don't care about reading.

Anyway, here is the link:
http://thecrimediaries.tumblr.com/post/120372308211/james-holmes-notebook

Amazing!! Thank you sooooooo much!:loveyou:

 

[Whiteorchids]

I created a Tumblr account so I'd have a shareable link... which makes it easier for those who want to read it. The notebook's pages aren't separated into different posts or anything but the page numbers are indicated throughout the transcription.
I imagine everyone can just skim over the ones they don't care about reading.

Anyway, here is the link:
http://thecrimediaries.tumblr.com/post/120372308211/james-holmes-notebook

You are awesome!!! Thank you

 

[carson456]

Does Holmes have a record of attacking his jailers or violently acting out against the people in a courtroom setting? Not as far as I know. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to demonize the defendant as some sort of rabid dog who is so out-of-control he must be chained down. The dense attorney is remiss in not demanding an end to this treatment.

Well, the jury does not see that he is chained to the floor. That is done before the jury enters and it is not visible to them.
I would think that doing this offers some security to the victims testifying and being so close to him in court. I see nothing wrong with this added level of security for someone accused of such a heinous, violent crime. The defense themselves agree he is insane.

 

[zoey]

You're quite welcome!

Thank you as well

 

[colette]

Every once in awhile you can hear the chains rattle in court when he stands and sits. It is very muted but possible to hear on some videos.

 

[Whiteorchids]

It's hard to make heads or tails of most his ramblings. A few things make sense I guess but most of it is gibberish. He complains about about some minor things such as his nose running, eye problems which sounds like he has floaties and flashes, his private parts, ears, hair, nothing serious but just complaining about small stuff.. On the first couple of pages with all those zeros equals blah blah blah and stick people do these equations mean something mathematical or is it pure nonsense? After reading Page 36, 53 and 54 a few times it comes across as the most significant to me and makes the most sense as what he is trying to convey about his mental health and sick mind. But really it's a lot of scrambled thoughts and he's all over the board. I've seen similar crazy writings in people with Schizophrenia. It makes no sense to the normal but to the schizophrenic it makes perfect sense. JMO

 

[jilly]

This should clear up the restraint:

DENVER (Reuters) – A Colorado judge ruled on Thursday that accused theater gunman James Holmes will tethered to the courtroom floor by a cable for security reasons during his murder trial, but denied a defense request to sequester the jury.......

.....Holmes’ public defenders have argued that allowing jurors to see their client handcuffed and shackled, as he has been in all of his court appearances so far, would unfairly prejudice them against the accused gunman.

Arapahoe County District Judge Carlos Samour Jr. agreed, but said Holmes poses a security risk and that public safety requires that he be restrained during the proceedings.

Holmes will wear a harness under his street clothes with a cable bolting him to the courtroom floor, the judge said.

The cable will be visible to jurors, Samour said, but should be indistinguishable from computer cords emanating from the defense table......

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/06/accused-aurora-gunman-to-be-chained-to-the-floor-during-trial/


Interesting that the jurors can see the cable but it was directed that it blend in with the computer cords.

 

[Whiteorchids]

This should clear up the restraint:

DENVER (Reuters) – A Colorado judge ruled on Thursday that accused theater gunman James Holmes will tethered to the courtroom floor by a cable for security reasons during his murder trial, but denied a defense request to sequester the jury.......

.....Holmes’ public defenders have argued that allowing jurors to see their client handcuffed and shackled, as he has been in all of his court appearances so far, would unfairly prejudice them against the accused gunman.

Arapahoe County District Judge Carlos Samour Jr. agreed, but said Holmes poses a security risk and that public safety requires that he be restrained during the proceedings.

Holmes will wear a harness under his street clothes with a cable bolting him to the courtroom floor, the judge said.

The cable will be visible to jurors, Samour said, but should be indistinguishable from computer cords emanating from the defense table......

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/06/accused-aurora-gunman-to-be-chained-to-the-floor-during-trial/

There's no mention of handcuffs here.
Interesting that the jurors can see the cable but it was directed that it blend in with the computer cords.

Thank you so much for this Jilly. Very interesting and good research.

 

[ahotch2]

This should clear up the restraint:

DENVER (Reuters) – A Colorado judge ruled on Thursday that accused theater gunman James Holmes will tethered to the courtroom floor by a cable for security reasons during his murder trial, but denied a defense request to sequester the jury.......

.....Holmes’ public defenders have argued that allowing jurors to see their client handcuffed and shackled, as he has been in all of his court appearances so far, would unfairly prejudice them against the accused gunman.

Arapahoe County District Judge Carlos Samour Jr. agreed, but said Holmes poses a security risk and that public safety requires that he be restrained during the proceedings.

Holmes will wear a harness under his street clothes with a cable bolting him to the courtroom floor, the judge said.

The cable will be visible to jurors, Samour said, but should be indistinguishable from computer cords emanating from the defense table......

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/06/accused-aurora-gunman-to-be-chained-to-the-floor-during-trial/


Interesting that the jurors can see the cable but it was directed that it blend in with the computer cords.

I guess that partly explains why he looks very plump now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[StillMindmatters]

This should clear up the restraint:

DENVER (Reuters) – A Colorado judge ruled on Thursday that accused theater gunman James Holmes will tethered to the courtroom floor by a cable for security reasons during his murder trial, but denied a defense request to sequester the jury.......

.....Holmes’ public defenders have argued that allowing jurors to see their client handcuffed and shackled, as he has been in all of his court appearances so far, would unfairly prejudice them against the accused gunman.

Arapahoe County District Judge Carlos Samour Jr. agreed, but said Holmes poses a security risk and that public safety requires that he be restrained during the proceedings.

Holmes will wear a harness under his street clothes with a cable bolting him to the courtroom floor, the judge said.

The cable will be visible to jurors, Samour said, but should be indistinguishable from computer cords emanating from the defense table......

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/06/accused-aurora-gunman-to-be-chained-to-the-floor-during-trial/


Interesting that the jurors can see the cable but it was directed that it blend in with the computer cords.

Great find Jilly, thanks for posting this info. I suspected the reason for additional/fail safe restraints would be that the safety of the public outweighed the rights of JH.

As for the cable being visible to the jury, I strongly believe that the Judge was able to justify this decision (even if the jurors were to recognize the defendant is tethered to the floor) based on the fact that JH is claiming insanity which means that the defendant himself is saying he has no control over his impulses, he has a documented history of suicidal and homicidal ideation, and he has an actionable history that includes, by his own admission, carefully planning and carrying out mass murder, hence he poses a potential danger to himself or others that outweighs any prejudicial considerations IMO.

 

[Benny08]

Welp, I just got through all 5 parts of croaker queens youtube vids. That basically killed my Sunday lol.

PS I noticed my goes crazy whenever I visit here now. Seems like something weird is going on anyway, and it's only here at WS.

 

[zoey]

This should clear up the restraint:

DENVER (Reuters) – A Colorado judge ruled on Thursday that accused theater gunman James Holmes will tethered to the courtroom floor by a cable for security reasons during his murder trial, but denied a defense request to sequester the jury.......

.....Holmes’ public defenders have argued that allowing jurors to see their client handcuffed and shackled, as he has been in all of his court appearances so far, would unfairly prejudice them against the accused gunman.

Arapahoe County District Judge Carlos Samour Jr. agreed, but said Holmes poses a security risk and that public safety requires that he be restrained during the proceedings.

Holmes will wear a harness under his street clothes with a cable bolting him to the courtroom floor, the judge said.

The cable will be visible to jurors, Samour said, but should be indistinguishable from computer cords emanating from the defense table......

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/06/accused-aurora-gunman-to-be-chained-to-the-floor-during-trial/


Interesting that the jurors can see the cable but it was directed that it blend in with the computer cords.

Thanks for posting that. The juriors wanted JH to be closer so jury could view him better