CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[GrainneDhu]

**GRAPHIC QUESTION**

Would the coyotes come to the scents that would be there of something freshly killed? Outside of normal territory?

It depends.

If the bordering territory was held by a strong coyote queen and the other coyote(s) weren't sure of her whereabouts, probably not.

For example, several years ago a white tail doe was killed by a vehicle on my road. She made it as far as my windbreak and died there. Being an amateur naturalist, I wanted to find out what happened, so I visited her remains two or three times a day.

The doe was far enough under the trees that the vultures didn't visit but crows did. The only coyote tracks I found were those of the coyote queen from my backyard and her pups from that year. There was another coyote queen whose territory starts less than a quarter mile away and she never visited (she had longer front feet and one toe on her left foot that consistently stuck out a little away from the other toes).

I think it also depends on how good a year the coyotes are having. They are a lot more daring when we're having a drought year. And it would depend on the wind direction(s) as well.

So, it's hard to tell just from the information given.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I personally think it's a little bit far fetched that the FBI would be engaged in sending subliminal messages to a predator.

What could the subliminal message say?

They use it in advertising, to entice people to rush out and buy the product.

Whatever subliminal message they could possibly send may only encourage him further...to "rush out and buy the product", or in this case, murder again. I cannot imagine a subliminal message to turn himself in would be effective.

My opinion only of course....

I think perhaps LE/FBI might "talk" to the perp by using certain words, but I certainly don't think there is any subliminal messaging going on.

Like you said, it doesn't seem likely that a subliminal message would cause this man to turn himself in.

 

[DeAnn]

GREAT that you recorded it

here is a description of what I saw:

In the very beginning of the memorial, the very first video sequence with pictures of Jessica w/music, few second into it, a very short wired sequens occured, it lasted ca 2-3 seconds (maybe just 1 second I can´t be sure), it was maybe about somthing like 3-10 pictures/images, like blitzing/flashing exstreamly fast after each other, you could NOT see, at all, what the pictures were!!!

Please let us know what you find?

Also please note how many minutes into the memorial the first video sequence of Jessica (still photos I belive) starts.
And if you notice the odd sequence I´m talking about please note how many seconds into the vido it occure.

Thanks for helping out

Lordy, I could cry. So utterly sad and tragic.

I watched the entire photo sequence with Call Me Maybe, Don't Stop Believing and a third song. Saw nothing fast everything went slow as it should. I saw no duplicated photos. And my system grabs a screenshot every three seconds and I looked at the key frames and saw nothing unusual.

Now can someone tell me about these crime scene photos that folks are analyzing for coyotes v power saw?

 

[Wishbone]

Thanks Flutterby for effectively calling me out on my disrespectful and offensive post to which you replied..

Point taken and I will shut the hell-o up..:blushing:

** in the future if a post is found to be offensive or disrespectful the alert button is your friend..

I don’t know what I’m missing, but I have read reports on child abuse and murder cases that made me physically ill. Vague distant photos of Jessica’s remains don’t even compare to the abuse I’ve read details about. If they ever catch the monster that murdered Jessica and he actually confesses in detail about what he did, well you can imagine. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but IMO the pictures we’ve seen are not that graphic as the distance they were taken at was too far away. If they were of good quality we would know if she was the victim of animal predation or something more sinister. So, the written word brings to life the gory details in this case and all the others I’ve followed, even Zahra. We never saw photos of her dismembered little body but the written details were horrifying. The worst abuse case I think I ever read details about was little Brianna Lopez and the things done to her during her short 5 month life are unimaginable. Unfortunately, the story didn’t even end with the trial, which IMO did not give justice. On top of that her grave, that strangers paid for was fenced and nobody allowed near it. I still get misty when I think about her tortured little life.

 

[concentric]

There was mention in at least one of the news articles that: the sidewalks were very close to the street.

That is a significant detail to me. The abductor could have been sitting in a parked vehicle, and that would not have alarmed anyone, most people away from home at work, and since we see, for example, service personnel reviewing clipboards, talking on the phone, etc. parked on the side of the road in residential areas all of the time.

It would only take seconds to put a hand over her mouth, and pull her into a vehicle, without anyone noticing, IMO.

 

[Kateinfl]

It depends.

If the bordering territory was held by a strong coyote queen and the other coyote(s) weren't sure of her whereabouts, probably not.

For example, several years ago a white tail doe was killed by a vehicle on my road. She made it as far as my windbreak and died there. Being an amateur naturalist, I wanted to find out what happened, so I visited her remains two or three times a day.

The doe was far enough under the trees that the vultures didn't visit but crows did. The only coyote tracks I found were those of the coyote queen from my backyard and her pups from that year. There was another coyote queen whose territory starts less than a quarter mile away and she never visited (she had longer front feet and one toe on her left foot that consistently stuck out a little away from the other toes).

I think it also depends on how good a year the coyotes are having. They are a lot more daring when we're having a drought year. And it would depend on the wind direction(s) as well.

So, it's hard to tell just from the information given.

Do Coyotes have nests or dens where they might take the remains?

 

[thess]

I agree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it.
Flutterby posted her opinion on it and I and others agreed. I'm not sure why it's turning into an issue. :waitasec:

When I made a general statement about it (interest in detailed (graphic) crime scene photos), it was because there was a certain feeling of judgement or shaming made by posts in the opposing viewpoint. i.e., that there was something wrong with people who wanted to know all the (graphic) details. I don't believe there is value in attempting to shame people for it. Especially not on a website that is literally devoted to the study of violent crime.

 

[twall]

Geez, I too anticipated additional reports of attempted abductions to be heightened after what happened with JR. The description of the middle age, gray hair, dark blue sedan type car sure rings a bell for me; it seems real familiar. I just cannot pull up where I saw/read it; or if it was in this case or another.
Does anyone, with a better recall memory than me, remember this description in the Denver area? Details?

This may ring a bell.

 

[Kateinfl]

There was mention in at least one of the news articles that: the sidewalks were very close to the street.

That is a significant detail to me. The abductor could have been sitting in a parked vehicle, and that would not have alarmed anyone, most people away from home at work, and since we see, for example, service personnel reviewing clipboards, talking on the phone, etc. parked on the side of the road in residential areas all of the time.

It would only take seconds to put a hand over her mouth, and pull her into a vehicle, without anyone noticing, IMO.

I could never understand that .....wouldn't someone on the sidewalk..see a person getting out of car and approaching..and then run. Especially if that person were coming right towards them. Unless he said something to her....while approaching that made her confortable to talk to him.

 

[Jax49]

In this article from 10/11 the reporter says the perp went under the fence.

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=294021

The person chose an isolated area, crossed under the barbed wire fence at a drainage culvert, and left the body on a hillside.

 

[thess]

Re: Increased reports of attempted abductions...

When I was a kid, I had a friend who would occasionally (especially when something like this was going on--think Adam Walsh era, and we were in FL) claim to have been approached or chased by a stranger. Later on she admitted to me she made it up to get attention.

I think sometimes kids/teens sense the fear but don't really know how to process it, and ones that are inclined to act out for attention may make stuff up during times like this.

No, I am not saying the reports are lies, just that I have personally experienced a friend who lied about abduction attempts.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

This is a bit O/T but I thought it was too sweet not to share...My daughter wrote this letter to Jessica last night. I try to shield her from this stuff, but in this case it was pretty much unavoidable, especially since she happened to be in the same room with me when they announced a body had been found and she saw me burst into tears. She doesn't know the details of course, but she knows that a bad person took Jessica, and that she is in heaven now. We talked about ways she could stay safe, and practiced what to do if anyone tried to take her.

She said she wanted to write a letter to Jessica, and send it to heaven. So tomorrow we are going to tie this to a balloon and send it off.

To translate 5 year old speak:

Dear Jessica,

We are very sad that you are not here anymore. I hope you are making friends with my hamster-He will love you and we love you too.

Love,

_____

P.S. My hamsters name is Leny

(Leny is her hamster who died a couple years ago-she said Jessica could have him. The little picture she drew in the top right-hand corner is both of them as angels. :heartbeat

 

[Theforeigner]

I personally think it's a little bit far fetched that the FBI would be engaged in sending subliminal messages to a predator.

What could the subliminal message say?

They use it in advertising, to entice people to rush out and buy the product.

Whatever subliminal message they could possibly send may only encourage him further...to "rush out and buy the product", or in this case, murder again. I cannot imagine a subliminal message to turn himself in would be effective.

My opinion only of course....

SapphireSteel it's not far fetched, they did it in the BTK case (not sure if it was FBI but it was profilers):

http://karisable.com/skazbtk.htm

quote:

"The police flashed a subliminal message created by profilers on KAKE-TV evening news. The subliminal message appeared as a flash of light but said, “Now call the chief.” There was no response."


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instances_of_subliminal_messages"]Instances of subliminal messages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

In 1978, Wichita, Kansas television station KAKE-TV received special permission from the police to place a subliminal message in a report on the BTK Killer (Bind, Torture, Kill) in an effort to get him to turn himself in. The subliminal message included the text "Now call the chief", as well as a pair of glasses. The glasses were included because when BTK murdered Nancy Fox, there was a pair of glasses lying upside down on her dresser; police felt that seeing the glasses might stir up remorse in the killer. The attempt was unsuccessful, and police reported no increased volume of calls afterward.

 

[GrainneDhu]

May I please ask a question? Why do they think a sexual offender may have abducted her? Do you know if her autopsy said there was sexual assault?

No word on the autopsy reports except to say that the results of tests could take weeks to come back.

Why LE thinks it was sexually motivated I don't know.

I know why I think it was sexually motivated; it's because there are really not that many motives for murdering people. There is no apparent money motive. It's unlikely that Jessica ever had a romantic relationship, so a jealous boyfriend or ex-boyfriend is unlikely. Since LE has ruled out her family, it wasn't an attempt to conceal child abuse.

Eliminating all those leaves sexual assault.

 

[KathrynL]

Denver Post Opinion ‏@denveropinion

Letter: Jessica Ridgeway’s disappearance brought Westminster together http://dpo.st/RUFaws

 

[MidwestMama]

This is a bit O/T but I thought it was too sweet not to share...My daughter wrote this letter to Jessica last night. I try to shield her from this stuff, but in this case it was pretty much unavoidable, especially since she happened to be in the same room with me when they announced a body had been found and she saw me burst into tears. She doesn't know the details of course, but she knows that a bad person took Jessica, and that she is in heaven now. We talked about ways she could stay safe, and practiced what to do if anyone tried to take her.

She said she wanted to write a letter to Jessica, and send it to heaven. So tomorrow we are going to tie this to a balloon and send it off.

To translate 5 year old speak:

Dear Jessica,

We are very sad that you are not here anymore. I hope you are making friends with my hamster-He will love you and we love you too.

Love,

_____

P.S. My hamsters name is Leny

(Leny is her hamster who died a couple years ago-she said Jessica could have him. The little picture she drew in the top right-hand corner is both of them as angels. :heartbeat

So sweet and beautiful! What a wonderful daughter you have! I love the pics of the Angel Hamster and Angel Jessica. Hugs to your daughter.

 

[sassysleuth]

This is a bit O/T but I thought it was too sweet not to share...My daughter wrote this letter to Jessica last night. I try to shield her from this stuff, but in this case it was pretty much unavoidable, especially since she happened to be in the same room with me when they announced a body had been found and she saw me burst into tears. She doesn't know the details of course, but she knows that a bad person took Jessica, and that she is in heaven now. We talked about ways she could stay safe, and practiced what to do if anyone tried to take her.

She said she wanted to write a letter to Jessica, and send it to heaven. So tomorrow we are going to tie this to a balloon and send it off.

To translate 5 year old speak:

Dear Jessica,

We are very sad that you are not here anymore. I hope you are making friends with my hamster-He will love you and we love you too.

Love,

_____

P.S. My hamsters name is Leny

(Leny is her hamster who died a couple years ago-she said Jessica could have him. The little picture she drew in the top right-hand corner is both of them as angels. :heartbeat

OMG :heartbeat:

 

[Flutterby80]

Thanks Flutterby for effectively calling me out on my disrespectful and offensive post to which you replied..

Point taken and I will shut the hell-o up..:blushing:

** in the future if a post is found to be offensive or disrespectful the alert button is your friend..

Please...I wasn't calling anyone out or directing my post toward anyone in particular. I was only thinking of the family, and how they might be feeling if they read here.

I know everyone is here for the same purpose. I won't bring it up again.

 

[Etilema]

I don’t know what I’m missing, but I have read reports on child abuse and murder cases that made me physically ill. Vague distant photos of Jessica’s remains don’t even compare to the abuse I’ve read details about. If they ever catch the monster that murdered Jessica and he actually confesses in detail about what he did, well you can imagine. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but IMO the pictures we’ve seen are not that graphic as the distance they were taken at was too far away. If they were of good quality we would know if she was the victim of animal predation or something more sinister. . .

Thanks for this. I thought I was the only one who didn't think these "vague, distant" photos were particularly gruesome or graphic. Either that or everyone else is looking at a different set of pictures (but I don't think so, because I have clicked on the links here).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this, because I feel the opposite. If someone did this to my daughter, I would want it on the front page of every newspaper in America. I would want people OUTRAGED and ready to do ANYTHING to find the killer. If it helped solve the crime, I would let anyone look at anything they wanted to, including photos of the body.

Emmet Till's mother made the same decision. It galvanised the civil rights movement, made more people aware of how brutal racism could be.