CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[stealth]

You name it, it has been discussed here. Everything from father/son/holy ghost, to number of victims, to random. No agreement or conclusion has been reached.

I think I saw an earlier thread on possible gang connotations but I can't find it. Have we discussed that it may represent the #13 XIII (where X is the cross) and the S/Z on the back? I was going down that path previously but don't want to rehash it if its already been vetted. Thanks

 

[DeAnn]

Facts We Know – I think

Jessica met J and walked to school with him on Thursday, she stopped outside the school to talk to a teacher-aid when they got there.

On Friday morning, Jessica called J's house to see if he was walking (because of the lousy weather).

She left to meet J to walk with him to school about 8:30.

J never saw her that day, got a ride from his dad when she didn't show up, and got that morning and Thursday morning mixed up when talking to the police.

Jessica was not seen at school that day, and there have been no confirmed witnesses who saw her on the way.

Her backpack was placed on the sidewalk (or grass by the sidewalk?) in front of a home in Superior sometime between 6:45 pm Saturday and 1:00 am Sunday.

There was evidence that PROBABLY has DNA on it in or on the backpack because DNA was used to rule out suspects before her body was found.

The family is NOT believed to be involved in her abduction or murder.

At least part of her body was found at Pattridge Park on Wednesday, in or on one or more black trash bags.

A small wooden cross with unidentified markings on it was found at one of the crime scenes, most likely near where her remains were found.

Her body was not intact when it was found. Parts may, or may not, have been missing, but they had to use DNA to positively identify her.

Two receipts were found

Her abduction is related to at least one previously attempted abduction.


Reported by MSM, But Not Confirmed By LE

Her clothes were found in her backpack neatly folded.

Her body was dismembered

Her socks were missing

A bunch of other stuff I can't remember because I try to stick with confirmed facts.

I've read through 15 pages and primarily see head banging. I like to stick with the facts of a case or reasonable suppositions.

Where is this stuff about receipts coming from? And what msm has reported the clothes folded in backpack and socks missing??

The Denver Post article I just read made me cry.

I do not think a funeral has been held nor a burial. To my reasonable supposition point...that tells me a significant or significant body parts remain missing.

What profile is there about someone who targets a 22 year old woman and a 10 year old girl? That's the part that floors me. Killers usually have a "type."

And why is everyone certain this SOS hasn't moved on to another state, area by now?

This case breaks my heart. Thank you for sharing all this info. it really helped.

PS Just found the Denver Fox station article on socks and receipts.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I've read through 15 pages and primarily see head banging. I like to stick with the facts of a case or reasonable suppositions.

Where is this stuff about receipts coming from? And what msm has reported the clothes folded in backpack and socks missing??

The Denver Post article I just read made me cry.

I do not think a funeral has been held nor a burial. To my reasonable supposition point...that tells me a significant or significant body parts remain missing.

What profile is there about someone who targets a 22 year old woman and a 10 year old girl? That's the part that floors me. Killers usually have a "type."

And why is everyone certain this SOS hasn't moved on to another state, area by now?

This case breaks my heart. Thank you for sharing all this info. it really helped.

PS Just found the Denver Fox station article on socks and receipts.

I waver between thinking that he had loose ties to Jessica to thinking if he grabbed her from behind, he might not have even realized she was such a young girl. How tall was the jogger that escaped back in May? If he is short, which it seems from the description, he might just be targeting smaller females. If Jessica was wearing a puffy jacket, boots, she may have looked like a teenager to the perp. I'm not sure this perp has a 'type' per se, weak females maybe, walking alone. I think from behind, Jessica might look a little older, only realizing up close that she was barely an adolescent.

Another topic I see that keeps coming up is about the rag of something used to knock out the victim. I can't say that the perp from last week in the white car is the same or a copycat. Seems like the wrong place this perp would try to get someone, he's proven to be sneaky. Also, this rag being used method has been around awhile - it's not new. Has anyone seen the Vanishing? The French version is very troubling but if anyone hasn't seen it and wants to be sickly scared - go rent it. Jeff Bridges and Keifer Sutherland are in it. The perp uses a rag with something also to do the kidnapping.

Police might know exactly where she was kidnapped from or they have no idea because her scent could be there from previous walks to school. There's so much we don't know though, so hard to say. His days are numbered though, can't look over his shoulder forever. :twocents:

 

[enzeder]

I've been away for a bit and trying to catch up, but I may be 4 or 5 full threads behind. Since we are supposed to be sleuthing, it seems to me that the biggest question we can focus on right now is what LE has asked for regarding the distinct markings on the cross that they released earlier in the week. I've seen some really good summaries of what we know and don't know in the last few pages as well as some educated speculation. I'd appreciate though if someone could just post a quick summary on the theories regarding the markings on the cross. Thanks

Comment on the Westminster PD Facebook page where they say "Police are not looking for explanation or meaning of the markings..."

Westminster PD Westminster Police have received a number of tips associated to the cross and suspect description from the Ketner Lake incident. We appreciate the tips that are helping in our Investigation. Police are not looking for explanation or meaning of the markings, but we are looking for who may have worn or had one of these, has or displays other items with identical marks and in particular, a person that fits the suspect description: light skinned male, medium build, average height. Thank you.
http://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice/posts/165009636971765

Westminster PD post on their Facebook page regarding the cross.
http://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice/posts/10151357385969305

 

[enzeder]

Short interview with the Mom of Jessica's friend where she says "Just thought maybe her mom had taken her to school..." (around the 01:29 mark)

[ame="http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/?action=view&current=100612Investigators-searchforJessicaRidgeway001.mp4"]Jessica Ridgeway -CO- :: 10/6/12 Investigators visit Jessicas home and searchers continue to look for items that may be Jessicas. video by crankycrankerson - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid296.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/100612Investigators-searchforJessicaRidgeway001.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid296@@AMEPARAM@@296@@AMEPARAM@@mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/100612Investigators-searchforJessicaRidgeway001@@AMEPARAM@@mp4[/ame]

 

[Confusion]

I decided to try sorting SmoothOperator's information a bit differently to see if I could come up with anything from it. What I got was:

El Paso County/Colorado Springs Area – 3 girls, 3 boys, 1 woman, 1 child sex unknown

Arvada/Westminster – 3 girls, 3 boys, 1 woman

Aurora – 1 13 yo girl, 1 woman

Littleton – 1 14 yo boy

It really looks to me like there are several men involved here. I've separated them by very basic criteria. Some that are listed separately could be the same person, and some listed in a group could actually be more than one (should have been separated), but it's a rough draft. Thanks again SmoothOperator for your list.

1. Arvada - all 4 (2 boys and 2 girls) were either told to get in the car or offered candy to get in.

2. Westminster - 2 were attempted by subduing the victim (one with force and one with the chemicals on the rag), the 3rd method is unknown, but known to be related to at least one of the others.

3. Colorado Springs/El Paso County -
a) abductor of 9 yo girl was arrested.and doesn't seem likely to be involved in any of the other cases
b) 8 yo who was abducted was let go unharmed within 20 minutes
c) 3 children (2 boys and 1 unknown sex) were approached by older pickups, and were either told or asked (to help find puppy) to get in
d) man hid in woman's van while she was in bank
e) 9 yo girl was offered money to let man expose himself to her
f) boy approached by man in car, was told he had a gun

4. Littleton - man tried to pull 14 year old boy into car

5, Aurora -
a) man tried to get 13 yo girl into car, unknown method
b) 2 men in car, 1 used towel with chemicals on woman

 

[Etilema]

. . . Police might know exactly where she was kidnapped from or they have no idea because her scent could be there from previous walks to school. There's so much we don't know though, so hard to say. His days are numbered though, can't look over his shoulder forever. :twocents:

Jumping off your post:

One difference between the two cases is the location. Attempting to abduct a woman on a jogging trail in a park-like area is not a very unusual crime scenario. Many women had been assaulted and/or murdered in a such situations. But grabbing a person right off the street in a heavily settled neighborhood seems very brazen and unusual.

This brings two ideas to my mind. One, maybe she wasn't abducted in those three blocks to Chelsea Park or the 1000 feet to her friend's house. Maybe she got to the friend's house late, and when she found they weren't there walked on to school by herself and was abducted in that open space she would have to cross to get to the school. Maybe she even normally goes around the back of the building to go in, on the Ketner Park side, where we can see some trails, and he came out of that area and was watching the school. (Here is where it would be really helpful to know for sure whether she was on her way to Chelsea Park or to the friend's house. Because if, as was reported previously, friends at Chelsea Park reported that she never showed up there, that would imply that the abduction really did take place in the neighborhood with all the houses and cars around.)

The other idea is that perhaps, as was suggested by Zola several threads ago, he abducted her in Chelsea Park because there are no houses overlooking that area. It would help to know what time the kids left that area to go to school. If it was relatively empty by the time she got there, it could be a place or have a spot in it that is secluded, similar to the Ketner Lake area.

Do any locals know what Chelsea Park is like, or have photos of that area?

JMO and speculation.


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[21merc7]

Thanks Smooth and Confusion!


I think all of these are within easy driving distance of each other. If this is all the same person(s), they are very active right now.

 

[21merc7]

Jumping off your post:

One difference between the two cases is the location. Attempting to abduct a woman on a jogging trail in a park-like area is not a very unusual crime scenario. Many women had been assaulted and/or murdered in a such situations. But grabbing a person right off the street in a heavily settled neighborhood seems very brazen and unusual.

This brings two ideas to my mind. One, maybe she wasn't abducted in those three blocks to Chelsea Park or the 1000 feet to her friend's house. Maybe she got to the friend's house late, and when she found they weren't there walked on to school by herself and was abducted in that open space she would have to cross to get to the school. Maybe she even normally goes around the back of the building to go in, on the Ketner Park side, where we can see some trails, and he came out of that area and was watching the school. (Here is where it would be really helpful to know for sure whether she was on her way to Chelsea Park or to the friend's house. Because if, as was reported previously, friends at Chelsea Park reported that she never showed up there, that would imply that the abduction really did take place in the neighborhood with all the houses and cars around.)

The other idea is that perhaps, as was suggested by Zola several threads ago, he abducted her in Chelsea Park because there are no houses overlooking that area. It would help to know what time the kids left that area to go to school. If it was relatively empty by the time she got there, it could be a place or have a spot in it that is secluded, similar to the Ketner Lake area.

Do any locals know what Chelsea Park is like, or have photos of that area?

JMO and speculation.


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I've been thinking the park since the first day. However, if there is an alley or something in between houses and it is known everyone is at work or school, it would be easy to get her in a car without anyone noticing, if using candy there would be no struggle and anyone that saw would just think it was a child getting a ride from a neighbor. Especially if the car was a usually seen car in the neighborhood.

 

[Harmony 2]

Can someone please help me find this.I think I remember a fire not far from where little Jessica was found and it happened after she was found.

This information has probably been brought up before but there was also a fire at Ketner Open Space in Westminster, near West 100th Avenue and Wadsworth Parkway on March 16, 2012.

http://kdvr.com/2012/03/16/slideshow-westminster-brush-fire/

ETA: Fire at Rocky Mountain National Park on October 10, 2012.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...ountain-national-park-fire-grows-wind-grounds

 

[Etilema]

Exploring the map, it appears to me that there is a huge open space right across the road near the area where Jessica's backpack was dropped. I am wondering whether it could be that he didn't drive in there, winding through all those circuitous streets and out again, but instead came from out of that open space and walked in from behind the houses. If I am looking at the right place on the map, it seems there is a place between two houses where a person could pass through.

ETA: If he walked in late at night, he would be less likely to attract attention than if he drove in late, in my opinion.

Just speculating.


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[enzeder]

Exploring the map, it appears to me that there is a huge open space right across the road near the area where Jessica's backpack was dropped. I am wondering whether it could be that he didn't drive in there, winding through all those circuitous streets and out again, but instead came from out of that open space and walked in from behind the houses. If I am looking at the right place on the map, it seems there is a place between two houses where a person could pass through.

Just speculating.


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I was Googling around that area a few nights ago and there is a walkway through to Alpha Ct and Andrew Way from McCaslin Blvd. I wonder if he parked somewhere on McCaslin Blvd and walked through the walkway to dump the backpack?.

 

[21merc7]

Yes you are right, that is the other scenario, JR left 8:30 to go to park, where's a friend thought it was at house, which explains why there was a mixup. This has been rehashed a lot but it does not seem to make sense, distance wise, for JR to go to the house, but whatever. In any event she missed the boy and went to school on her own,

She might have been excited/panicked when boy did not show up. She was probably looking for him, standing there looking, that could have been when perp got her,

I wonder why dogs could not track her route. Those dogs can do amazing work, I saw a show on ID discovery where the dogs tracked the LE miles to the body.

Why can't the dogs track where she walked to? Was it because after 8 hours her scent was gone? Or maybe polluted by other people walking? Or do u think LE might know exact spot of abduction based on dogs? Might the speculation of the open space be based on the dogs?

It would seem to me that the dogs should have been able to track the route to where she was taken, ending all this speculation about where exactly the abduction took place

Agreed about possibly missing her ride and being scared. She could have taken a ride from someone b/c of that.

If she was put in a car or got in one, her scent would end there and dogs could not track at that point.

 

[FruitTingles]

On the last thread there were discussions about neighborhood watches being formed, ALWAYS going out in pairs or groups whether it be children or adults, whether it be going to school or out for a jog.

A few thoughts -- I think EVERY group should be documented and confirmed. If a parent is responsible for taking four children to school on Tuesday and Thursday, those four families need to write down the exact plan and stay in touch to confirm that everything went smoothly. Hypervigiliant? Paranoid? I really don't thinks so. Not at all. Necessary, unfortunately. Just put these plans in place, stick to them, and it will take such a short amount of time to do it right and ensure safety while keeping everyone accountable.

:goodpost: I couldn't agree more. These days, it has become very obvious that we cannot be too paranoid or 'lenient' when it comes to the supervision of our children's outdoor activities etc, and even adults too! Prevention.
JMO, of course.

 

[marlywings]

I was Googling around that area a few nights ago and there is a walkway through to Alpha Ct and Andrew Way from McCaslin Blvd. I wonder if he parked somewhere on McCaslin Blvd and walked through the walkway to dump the backpack?.

I straight away thought of the photo on denverpost report "A fenced sidewalk near Witt Elementary where Jessica Ridgeway went to school"....is this the same walkway you mention??

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_21820092#ixzz2ADIfugwi

 

[Sigh Sister]

Jumping off your post:

One difference between the two cases is the location. Attempting to abduct a woman on a jogging trail in a park-like area is not a very unusual crime scenario. Many women had been assaulted and/or murdered in a such situations. But grabbing a person right off the street in a heavily settled neighborhood seems very brazen and unusual.

This brings two ideas to my mind. One, maybe she wasn't abducted in those three blocks to Chelsea Park or the 1000 feet to her friend's house. Maybe she got to the friend's house late, and when she found they weren't there walked on to school by herself and was abducted in that open space she would have to cross to get to the school. Maybe she even normally goes around the back of the building to go in, on the Ketner Park side, where we can see some trails, and he came out of that area and was watching the school. (Here is where it would be really helpful to know for sure whether she was on her way to Chelsea Park or to the friend's house. Because if, as was reported previously, friends at Chelsea Park reported that she never showed up there, that would imply that the abduction really did take place in the neighborhood with all the houses and cars around.)

The other idea is that perhaps, as was suggested by Zola several threads ago, he abducted her in Chelsea Park because there are no houses overlooking that area. It would help to know what time the kids left that area to go to school. If it was relatively empty by the time she got there, it could be a place or have a spot in it that is secluded, similar to the Ketner Lake area.

Do any locals know what Chelsea Park is like, or have photos of that area?

JMO and speculation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

BBM- The attempt on the jogger at Ketner Lake was equally brazen, IMO. Looking at the area on google earth, the area appears pretty wide open with only one area of somewhat concentrated vegetation on the northwest side that obstructs the view of the trail. On the south and southeast sides, there are houses that directly abut the area. There are roads that encircle this area as well.

 

[Eileen730]

I waver between thinking that he had loose ties to Jessica to thinking if he grabbed her from behind, he might not have even realized she was such a young girl. How tall was the jogger that escaped back in May? If he is short, which it seems from the description, he might just be targeting smaller females. If Jessica was wearing a puffy jacket, boots, she may have looked like a teenager to the perp. I'm not sure this perp has a 'type' per se, weak females maybe, walking alone. I think from behind, Jessica might look a little older, only realizing up close that she was barely an adolescent.

Another topic I see that keeps coming up is about the rag of something used to knock out the victim. I can't say that the perp from last week in the white car is the same or a copycat. Seems like the wrong place this perp would try to get someone, he's proven to be sneaky. Also, this rag being used method has been around awhile - it's not new. Has anyone seen the Vanishing? The French version is very troubling but if anyone hasn't seen it and wants to be sickly scared - go rent it. Jeff Bridges and Keifer Sutherland are in it. The perp uses a rag with something also to do the kidnapping.

Police might know exactly where she was kidnapped from or they have no idea because her scent could be there from previous walks to school. There's so much we don't know though, so hard to say. His days are numbered though, can't look over his shoulder forever. :twocents:

His days are numbered!

I think Jessica got into the car with this man because she knew him.
Her scent and dna would be in the car because she had been in it many times before. This makes it harder to prove involvement.
She was dismembered because this man couldnt carry her out of the home and not be noticed so he did the unthinkable.
ths man cant be gone from his home area long because of family and work
thus leaving him limited places to put her little body.
These are just my person opinions!

 

[Eileen730]

Agreed about possibly missing her ride and being scared. She could have taken a ride from someone b/c of that.

If she was put in a car or got in one, her scent would end there and dogs could not track at that point.

My question is why would they leave her?

Id risk being a few mins late to go find the child i was supposed to meet and take to school....

This makes no sense to me!

Had they left her before?
Was this the first time?
what did he say to ther that morning when she called. We will never know!

 

[Sigh Sister]

I straight away thought of the photo on denverpost report "A fenced sidewalk near Witt Elementary where Jessica Ridgeway went to school"....is this the same walkway you mention??

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_21820092#ixzz2ADIfugwi

I don't think it is because the backpack was found in Superior, not in Jessica's neighborhood.

 

[momrids6]

http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com...ght-search-fails-find-10-year-old-westminster
pictures give an idea of conditions at Ketner Open Space