CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[otto]

It seems pretty clear to me. I am a layman not a lawyer, so what do I know?

To me, what the Supreme Court said was that life without parole cannot be automatically applied to minors. If the state where the minor was convicted allows for life without parole for a specific crime, a minor cannot automatically receive that sentence.

It does not say that minors cannot receive a life without parole sentence. I believe that it means that a judge or jury must consider all factors pertaining to the specific minor before imposing a life without parole sentence.

So far as the role of life expectancy in sentencing, my impression is that it is not considered a factor because no one really knows how long someone else will live. And no one really knows what medical advances will happen to drastically prolong life expectancy.

That's interesting. My interpretation was that if a youth commits a crime, no sentence that excludes a reasonable parole date can be given. It's also my understanding that a youth cannot be sentenced such that he or she spends the remainder of his/her life in prison.

 

[TnVolsFan]

Imo, your questions will be answered if someone can retrieve the chapter 7 bankruptcy petition:

http://www.dailycamera.com/2012elec...y-suspect-fascinated-by-crime-scene-forensics

Sigg's father, Robert Sigg of Parker, has a lengthy arrest record that includes domestic violence charges. In 2005, he pleaded guilty in federal court to bank fraud and was ordered to pay more than $141,000 in restitution. At the same time, he was linked to financial scandals involving Heritage Christian Center.

Attempts to reach Robert Sigg on Wednesday were unsuccessful.

Robert Sigg and his wife, Mindy, filed for divorce in 2000.

In May, Mindy Sigg, Austin's mother, filed for individual Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

just jumping off your post (bbm) as a reminder that the parents can be discussed only as to what is in the media. Further sleuthing of their documents is not allowed.

Link to RS and Heritage - hope this is ok to post, just wanted to link it so we had it here.
http://www.denverpost.com/prosperitygospel/ci_4459571

 

[SurfieTX]

Taking a stab in the dark here, but is that some sort of plug in that can be used to modify maps/tasks in game environments? If it is, isn't that a pretty common mapping tool for gamers to use?

I"m not sure. I haven't really investigated it much at this point. My speculation and opinion is that he built his own computer and had many computer parts in his room or about the house. As much of a rudimentary knowledge I have, I can add memory, change a motherboard, network, and so on, but this level of computer-ness? I have NO clue.

And for a while, it might have served as a sort of substitute or distraction for him with regard to his festering thoughts. Computers are fascinating and do kind of function like a human brain/body of sorts.

 

[otto]

Another websleuther is responsible for finding this avatar that was associated with a gaming account for AS. It seems that the avatar may have been taken down in the last few days, but this is what was on the account earlier. It appears to me to be anime of a trench coated youth holding a sword and standing in a pool of blood.

 

[otto]

I"m not sure. I haven't really investigated it much at this point. My speculation and opinion is that he built his own computer and had many computer parts in his room or about the house. As much of a rudimentary knowledge I have, I can add memory, change a motherboard, network, and so on, but this level of computer-ness? I have NO clue.

And for a while, it might have served as a sort of substitute or distraction for him with regard to his festering thoughts. Computers are fascinating and do kind of function like a human brain/body of sorts.

I asked my 17 year old son about it and although he doesn't use the tools, he knows people that do. He says that adding custom maps or tasks is not a big deal.

 

[passionflower]

ita (bbm)... we have K9 web protection (it is free) and it is WONDERFUL. It even barks if a banned website comes up (you can choose your areas to be verboten according to content) I am just sharing this with you all as my bil who is in the computer biz recommended it... and it truly gives peace of mind (it also cannot be deleted by tech savy teens LOL)

we have the computer right in the living area. When my grandchildren are here, I know exactly what they are doing because they can't hide in secret.

 

[katydid23]

First, there is one thing and one only that could possibly cause someone like Austin Sigg to commit a crime like this. He is mentally ill, period. *advertiser censored* had absolutely nothing to do with it. Though I'm sure it will be part of his defense.

Millions of people, look at *advertiser censored*, and 99.999% of them wouldn't even be capable of committing such a horrendous crime as this.

I will play devil's advocate though, and say this. If *advertiser censored* was an issue for this crime, his *advertiser censored* addiction treatment was an epic fail.

I don't believe that 99.999% of the people look at VIOLENT *advertiser censored*. That is what I am referring to. I have no problem with soft *advertiser censored*, or basic sexual imagery. [ as long as the people involved were consenting and not coerced.]

But most people do not get pleasure from watching necrophilia, or bestiality, or young children being assaulted and raped. And there are people who view violent images like that for hours and hours at a time. Often they are high on meth or coke while looking at these brutal images.

I just don't understand why people cannot see the connection between the urge to rape and the addiction to violent images.

Again, I have no problem with people watching *advertiser censored* films or reading Hustler. As I said, we found *advertiser censored* on our sons laptop when he was a teen. But it was 'hot cheerleaders hooking up' type stuff. So it seemed normal to me that a 16 yr old kid would like pictures of teen girls kissing each other. My DH did not freak out about it.

BUT if we had found him with violent, torture *advertiser censored*, involving girls being tied up, brutally gang raped, and having their throats slit, we would have felt much differently. Anyone who needs to see a victim cut or stabbed or beaten, in order for them to feel sexual arousal, needs help, imo.

 

[hollyblue]

ita: I watched a video clip on either denver nbc or abc this morning and it basically said that someone who was found guilty of crimes like this would never see the light of day again... in other words sure they may be able to go up for parole but they will never get it.... (he said it had to do with the nature/severity/etc of the crimes)

Agree, and I think this will be the case with AS. He'll be given reviews every now and then by the parole board...and the family, media and public will never allow his release to happen. Yet again, who knows what or how the "system" will be 30 or 40 years from now? Hinckley, 26 at the time, (Reagan's attempted assassin) is still frequently allowed visits to stay with his parents. Tho the $ and political ties his family has probably alot do with it...where I don't believe that would be the case with AS.

 

[passionflower]

Agree, and I think this will be the case with AS. He'll be given reviews every now and then by the parole board...and the family, media and public will never allow his release to happen. Yet again, who knows what or how the "system" will be 30 or 40 years from now? Hinckley, 26 at the time, (Reagan's attempted assassin) is still frequently allowed visits to stay with his parents. Tho the $ and political ties his family has probably alot do with it...where I don't believe that would be the case with AS.

and just a couple weeks ago one of the manson guys was released from prison.
I am sure, My grandchildren have no idea who charles manson and his family are.
People seem to forget after awhile and prisons are full and getting fuller by the day.
How can we tax payers house these violent preditors forever???

 

[Footwarrior]

Agree, and I think this will be the case with AS. He'll be given reviews every now and then by the parole board...and the family, media and public will never allow his release to happen. Yet again, who knows what or how the "system" will be 30 or 40 years from now? Hinckley, 26 at the time, (Reagan's attempted assassin) is still frequently allowed visits to stay with his parents. Tho the $ and political ties his family has probably alot do with it...where I don't believe that would be the case with AS.

The John Hinckley case isn't a good comparison to this one. First of all, Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity and committed to a mental institution. He is allowed to spend time with his parents, but is still under the care of that institution.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's interesting. My interpretation was that if a youth commits a crime, no sentence that excludes a reasonable parole date can be given. It's also my understanding that a youth cannot be sentenced such that he or she spends the remainder of his/her life in prison.

I'm not sure why but the old joke about Germany came to mind: that which is not forbidden is mandatory.

I did a little poking around on the internet and I believe my interpretation of the law is close to accurate. There are quite a few people serving life prison terms without chance of parole for crimes committed as a minor. Also, check out gitana and nursebeeme's posts on the subject upthread.

 

[ImWithTheBand]

I don't believe that 99.999% of the people look at VIOLENT *advertiser censored*. That is what I am referring to. I have no problem with soft *advertiser censored*, or basic sexual imagery. [ as long as the people involved were consenting and not coerced.]

But most people do not get pleasure from watching necrophilia, or bestiality, or young children being assaulted and raped. And there are people who view violent images like that for hours and hours at a time. Often they are high on meth or coke while looking at these brutal images.

I just don't understand why people cannot see the connection between the urge to rape and the addiction to violent images.

Again, I have no problem with people watching *advertiser censored* films or reading Hustler. As I said, we found *advertiser censored* on our sons laptop when he was a teen. But it was 'hot cheerleaders hooking up' type stuff. So it seemed normal to me that a 16 yr old kid would like pictures of teen girls kissing each other. My DH did not freak out about it.

BUT if we had found him with violent, torture *advertiser censored*, involving girls being tied up, brutally gang raped, and having their throats slit, we would have felt much differently. Anyone who needs to see a victim cut or stabbed or beaten, in order for them to feel sexual arousal, needs help, imo.

This is sort of what I was referring to in my post. YOU are not offended by certain images and thought it was no big deal that a teen in the house was checking out hot cheerleaders kissing. This might be considered arousing to a teen boy. But you guys didn't freak out. SOME parents would see THIS as a *advertiser censored* "addiction". I totally agree with you that it's probably normal enough and not worth freaking out over. We don't know what AS was looking at, if anything or why someone thought he had some type of addiction. He could have had hot cheerleaders hooking up and Ma was greatly offended and thought he was a twisted freak for looking at such things... we don't know, And what we don't know, has made us all speculate what kind of vile things he must have been doing to have to be treated for *advertiser censored* addiction.

I am not sure about the meth and coke thing and looking at brutal images. I believe doing drugs and looking at violent *advertiser censored* are pretty much separate issues.

One could probably view me reading these boards as an "addiction". One might even see me as a twisted freak for my interest here. I drink coffee and smoke cigs for hours and sometimes only get up to go potty... my point is, looking at something for hours doesn't automatically make you into something dark and scary, even if it's dark and scary things you are looking at. It won't influence the decisions you make in your life. I believe that there is something hard wired differently in people that kill.

 

[Foxfire]

Link to RS and Heritage - hope this is ok to post, just wanted to link it so we had it here.
http://www.denverpost.com/prosperitygospel/ci_4459571

Thanx for sharing TnVolsFan... Very interesting...

 

[matou]

Here's the link that insinuates that Sigg has a juvenile record of some kind. This was published well before we knew he would be charged with sexual assault on Jessica. I wonder if he has raped others too, little girls who are too scared to say anything. I hope if anyone else was raped by this "very unusual person" is brave enough to come forward.

Sigg does not appear on any Colorado sex offender lists and since he is a juvenile, his previous record has been sealed.

He is being held at the Mount View Youth Services Detention Center.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ent-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

 

[SapphireSteel]

This is sort of what I was referring to in my post. YOU are not offended by certain images and thought it was no big deal that a teen in the house was checking out hot cheerleaders kissing. This might be considered arousing to a teen boy. But you guys didn't freak out. SOME parents would see THIS as a *advertiser censored* "addiction". I totally agree with you that it's probably normal enough and not worth freaking out over. We don't know what AS was looking at, if anything or why someone thought he had some type of addiction. He could have had hot cheerleaders hooking up and Ma was greatly offended and thought he was a twisted freak for looking at such things... we don't know, And what we don't know, has made us all speculate what kind of vile things he must have been doing to have to be treated for *advertiser censored* addiction.

I am not sure about the meth and coke thing and looking at brutal images. I believe doing drugs and looking at violent *advertiser censored* are pretty much separate issues.

One could probably view me reading these boards as an "addiction". One might even see me as a twisted freak for my interest here. I drink coffee and smoke cigs for hours and sometimes only get up to go potty... my point is, looking at something for hours doesn't automatically make you into something dark and scary, even if it's dark and scary things you are looking at. It won't influence the decisions you make in your life. I believe that there is something hard wired differently in people that kill.

I completely agree.

And...

:welcome5:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Speaking of who told what I have always wondered to whom Sigg told that when he assaulted and killed Jessica that he did not get the rush he thought that he should so this led to his dismembering her..

 

[katydid23]

This is sort of what I was referring to in my post. YOU are not offended by certain images and thought it was no big deal that a teen in the house was checking out hot cheerleaders kissing. This might be considered arousing to a teen boy. But you guys didn't freak out. SOME parents would see THIS as a *advertiser censored* "addiction". I totally agree with you that it's probably normal enough and not worth freaking out over. We don't know what AS was looking at, if anything or why someone thought he had some type of addiction. He could have had hot cheerleaders hooking up and Ma was greatly offended and thought he was a twisted freak for looking at such things... we don't know, And what we don't know, has made us all speculate what kind of vile things he must have been doing to have to be treated for *advertiser censored* addiction.

I am not sure about the meth and coke thing and looking at brutal images. I believe doing drugs and looking at violent *advertiser censored* are pretty much separate issues.

One could probably view me reading these boards as an "addiction". One might even see me as a twisted freak for my interest here. I drink coffee and smoke cigs for hours and sometimes only get up to go potty... my point is, looking at something for hours doesn't automatically make you into something dark and scary, even if it's dark and scary things you are looking at. It won't influence the decisions you make in your life. I believe that there is something hard wired differently in people that kill.

Ha, we have some things in common. I read this board for hours at a time as well. But I think there is a difference between us reading about these twisted crimes, and a perv looking at violent images of horror *advertiser censored*. You and I are reading about these cases, in the hopes of PREVENTING future cases, and hoping to find missing victims.

The people addicted to horror *advertiser censored* are coming at it from an entirely different point of view. They imagine themselves as the rapists or as the sadist. They want to inflict the pain they are watching.

Also, imo, drugs like meth and addictions like hardcore *advertiser censored* are not entirely separate issues. I say that because the greatly overlap. When people get high on meth they often crave sexual outlets like *advertiser censored*. There is a physiological connection there. LE often sees the overlap in cases of abuse and incest. Many of the perps are meth addicts.


<modsnip>

I do agree with you that some parents might view 'cheerleader hook up' *advertiser censored* as a sinful addiction and demand their teen get counseling. And I guess it depends upon their level of usage. We only found a couple of pictures and saw that most of his time on the computer was used doing homework and playing games online and IM'ing friends. So we were not too worried. But if he was spending hours online looking at *advertiser censored*, day after day, then it wouldnt matter what the type of *advertiser censored* was imo. But it would be a problem if it was taking over his life.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here's the link that insinuates that Sigg has a juvenile record of some kind. This was published well before we knew he would be charged with sexual assault on Jessica. I wonder if he has raped others too, little girls who are too scared to say anything. I hope if anyone else was raped by this "very unusual person" is brave enough to come forward.



http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ent-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

The counselling and the sealed records make me think that ARS has been violent before, probably sexually. Maybe hit lit some fires...another sign of a predator in the making.

:furious:

I really think that the politicians need to look at changing the laws and reviewing juvenile's automatic right to secrecy. Juvenile records (especially if involving violence or arson) should be "partially" sealed, by which I mean closed to the general public but availaible to LE.

Police had already swabbed him as routine which apparently alerted nothing immediately, probably due to back-log, but I'm sure it would have been a different story if they knew he'd been a violent juvenile offender. They could have identified him as a possible suspect, prioritised his testing and had the little prick off the streets instead of him calling them up and confessing.

That is not LE's fault, that is a political issue. This right to secrecy for violent juveniles is part of the reason they can go under the radar.

ullhair:

 

[msthinksalot]

Another websleuther is responsible for finding this avatar that was associated with a gaming account for AS. It seems that the avatar may have been taken down in the last few days, but this is what was on the account earlier. It appears to me to be anime of a trench coated youth holding a sword and standing in a pool of blood.

That is a character from the "Bleach" series, Ichigo Kurosaki. At this link is everything anyone could ever want to know about that character:

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ichigo_Kurosaki

I don't think there is any sinister meaning behind him choosing that hugely popular character as an avatar.

 

[Foxfire]

and just a couple weeks ago one of the manson guys was released from prison.
I am sure, My grandchildren have no idea who charles manson and his family are.
People seem to forget after awhile and prisons are full and getting fuller by the day.
How can we tax payers house these violent preditors forever???

Well, angola LA prisoners work for their keep and grow the food that they eat, etc. Sexual predator/SK Brandon Lavergne, confessed killer of Mickey Shunick & Lisa Pate(LA) just received LWOP at Angola Prison....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR2G1801PAo"]Chain Gang from Cadence - YouTube[/ame]