Colorado Statutes relating to JonBenet Ramsey’s death

[elannia]

You know, don't you, elannia, that there is a theory that this is exactly what happened? I'm not convinced of it, but it WOULD account for many puzzling aspects of what we know (or at least think we know).

Yes, I have read bluecrab's theory that there was someone else in the house that night, its just strange how after the murder the S's acted with the R's and they werent called over that morning she was "kidnapped"

 

[elannia]

While we are on this subject as maybe a fifth person was in the house that night, I know people do horrible unspeakable acts and abuse to their children, I just cannot as a mother of a 4 year old girl, see (I know it happens), but I cannot imagine PR jabbing JB with the broken end of a paintbrush, whether she thought she was dead or not, to make it look like a SA, I may be wrong but I think it was a young boy, maybe 2, that did it, then left it for the parents to "clean up", I sure wish I knew JK sequence of events for the night. If it started in the breakfast bar(dining room), how in the world did a 9 year old get her to the basement, (help from someone?), she did have abrasions and scratches on her, and where was JB when Melody Stanton supposedly heard her scream? If she was hit upstairs could MS have heard her?, maybe she was in the basement with others and something started and thats when she screamed(to "shut her up"), so many questions and probably never any answers

 

[otg]

otg,
I reckon Kolar is privy to much more forensic evidence than we are currently aware of. Kolar patently thinks JonBenet was dragged by the arms in the basement, it was him who emphasised the upward posture of JonBenet's arms.

I’m not sure exactly what Kolar said about this, but I don’t agree with him in the first place that the head blow happened at the breakfast table. He seems to have arrived at that idea based on where the pineapple was eaten, his belief that the Maglite was the weapon, and that if she was then unconscious she would have to be carried or dragged down the stairs. There is not nearly as much bruising or abrasions to her body to account for her being dragged (IMO) down the stairs. And even assuming her body was dragged by the arms at some point simply across the basement floor, why would they be left in that position before wrapping the blanket around her? And where is the evidence on the floor of her being dragged? Or on the back side of the blanket, or her clothes?

I trust Kolar with his telling us about evidence that we didn’t know about until his book came out. I don’t agree with all his conclusions though (at least the ones he’s either told us about or that he’s hinted at).

 

[otg]

While we are on this subject as maybe a fifth person was in the house that night, I know people do horrible unspeakable acts and abuse to their children, I just cannot as a mother of a 4 year old girl, see (I know it happens), but I cannot imagine PR jabbing JB with the broken end of a paintbrush, whether she thought she was dead or not, to make it look like a SA, I may be wrong but I think it was a young boy, maybe 2, that did it, then left it for the parents to "clean up", I sure wish I knew JK sequence of events for the night. If it started in the breakfast bar(dining room), how in the world did a 9 year old get her to the basement, (help from someone?), she did have abrasions and scratches on her, and where was JB when Melody Stanton supposedly heard her scream? If she was hit upstairs could MS have heard her?, maybe she was in the basement with others and something started and thats when she screamed(to "shut her up"), so many questions and probably never any answers

A few things, elannia...

I completely agree with most of the doubts you have about the speculation of others. But first, why do you assume that if the paintbrush was used (which I agree with), it was used after it had been broken? Don’t you think that it was more likely to have been used before it was broken, and that that is the reason it disappeared? Besides, if the broken end had been “jabbed” (your word), or even “inserted”, don’t you think there would have been much more tearing and abrading of the delicate tissue than was described by the ME? And which broken end would you assume was used? There are four broken ends if it is broken in two places. Was it one of the three broken ends that were found that was used? And if it was, why isn’t there blood and torn tissue remaining on it? If you think it might have been the broken end on the missing piece, do you think after being broken off it was long enough to be held in someone’s hand and inserted as far into the vagina as the injuries are described in the AR as occurring?

Elannia, I truly am not trying to give you a hard time. I’m asking these questions to get you and others reading this to think out what they think happened. I understand you’re saying that the speculation of others doesn’t ring true to you. And I agree with you that it doesn’t. But ask yourself WHY it doesn’t ring true. For instance, you mentioned the scream. Others may have doubts about it, but I (for one) believe Melody Stanton heard a scream. Investigators did extensive testing to see where it could have been heard. Apparently, they gave enough credence to it that they needed to know whether Stanton could hear it in another house while the Ramseys could not hear it in the house where the scream happened. They did their testing as if the scream had come from the basement near the large open vent. (Ask yourself why they tested it from there.) If the scream happened from there, what else of the events we know about had to have happened there?

The answers to many of your questions are all there. Just think it out.

 

[UKGuy]

I’m not sure exactly what Kolar said about this, but I don’t agree with him in the first place that the head blow happened at the breakfast table. He seems to have arrived at that idea based on where the pineapple was eaten, his belief that the Maglite was the weapon, and that if she was then unconscious she would have to be carried or dragged down the stairs. There is not nearly as much bruising or abrasions to her body to account for her being dragged (IMO) down the stairs. And even assuming her body was dragged by the arms at some point simply across the basement floor, why would they be left in that position before wrapping the blanket around her? And where is the evidence on the floor of her being dragged? Or on the back side of the blanket, or her clothes?

I trust Kolar with his telling us about evidence that we didn’t know about until his book came out. I don’t agree with all his conclusions though (at least the ones he’s either told us about or that he’s hinted at).

otg,
I agree with you. I also find Kolars theory difficult to understand, particularly that it all originated in the breakfast bar.

I doubt Kolar is suggesting JonBenet was dragged down to the basement but more pulled by the arms across the basement floor, say from the train room to next to the wine-cellar?

Whatever happened and where it took place was not originally next to the wine-cellar, the latter is simply a convenient location to assist in staging an abduction.

I do not think the paintbrush played a role in the initial assault, it was simply part of the staging.

One aspect of the staging that is curious is the wiping clean of JonBenet and changing her underwear, since leaving her bloodied would not detract from an abduction, just that the abductor had assaulted JonBenet in the course of the crime.

.

 

[OliviaG1996]

otg,
I agree with you. I also find Kolars theory difficult to understand, particularly that it all originated in the breakfast bar.

I doubt Kolar is suggesting JonBenet was dragged down to the basement but more pulled by the arms across the basement floor, say from the train room to next to the wine-cellar?

Whatever happened and where it took place was not originally next to the wine-cellar, the latter is simply a convenient location to assist in staging an abduction.

I do not think the paintbrush played a role in the initial assault, it was simply part of the staging.

One aspect of the staging that is curious is the wiping clean of JonBenet and changing her underwear, since leaving her bloodied would not detract from an abduction, just that the abductor had assaulted JonBenet in the course of the crime.

.

I agree it's possible JBR was dragged, but as you say, only a short distance (from the train room to the wine-cellar, otherwise there would be more blatant evidence of dragging). However, do you think it's possible JR or PR carried JBR upstairs after finding her unconscious in the basement and placed her on her bed, later returning her to the basement? That may be able to account for the drop of blood found on her pillow and fibers consistent with those of the cord also on the bed. All JMO, of course.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree it's possible JBR was dragged, but as you say, only a short distance (from the train room to the wine-cellar, otherwise there would be more blatant evidence of dragging). However, do you think it's possible JR or PR carried JBR upstairs after finding her unconscious in the basement and placed her on her bed, later returning her to the basement? That may be able to account for the drop of blood found on her pillow and fibers consistent with those of the cord also on the bed. All JMO, of course.

OliviaG1996,
Sure its possible that JR or PR carried JonBenet upstairs. Where it all really started is the big unknown, i.e. was it BR's bedroom or JonBenet's. Or as some think did it all take place down in the basement?

Did JonBenet finish her pineapple snack and head for bed, or was she diverted down to the basement on a hunt for toys, gifts etc?

Since Kolar is holding back on key aspects of the forensic evidence that makes up his prosecutable case, I'm willing to bet his theory that it originated in the breakfast bar is a cover for the real theory.

So I reckon it kicked off in one of the bedrooms, say BR's, with a staging in JonBenet's bedroom which was later altered to that of the wine-cellar staging, this might explain the bloodstained pillow?


.

 

[elannia]

A few things, elannia...

I completely agree with most of the doubts you have about the speculation of others. But first, why do you assume that if the paintbrush was used (which I agree with), it was used after it had been broken? Don’t you think that it was more likely to have been used before it was broken, and that that is the reason it disappeared? Besides, if the broken end had been “jabbed” (your word), or even “inserted”, don’t you think there would have been much more tearing and abrading of the delicate tissue than was described by the ME? And which broken end would you assume was used? There are four broken ends if it is broken in two places. Was it one of the three broken ends that were found that was used? And if it was, why isn’t there blood and torn tissue remaining on it? If you think it might have been the broken end on the missing piece, do you think after being broken off it was long enough to be held in someone’s hand and inserted as far into the vagina as the injuries are described in the AR as occurring?

Elannia, I truly am not trying to give you a hard time. I’m asking these questions to get you and others reading this to think out what they think happened. I understand you’re saying that the speculation of others doesn’t ring true to you. And I agree with you that it doesn’t. But ask yourself WHY it doesn’t ring true. For instance, you mentioned the scream. Others may have doubts about it, but I (for one) believe Melody Stanton heard a scream. Investigators did extensive testing to see where it could have been heard. Apparently, they gave enough credence to it that they needed to know whether Stanton could hear it in another house while the Ramseys could not hear it in the house where the scream happened. They did their testing as if the scream had come from the basement near the large open vent. (Ask yourself why they tested it from there.) If the scream happened from there, what else of the events we know about had to have happened there?

The answers to many of your questions are all there. Just think it out.

I have no idea about what was used for the SA on JB, I was pointing out that IF a paintbrush was used I cannot see a mother sexually abusing her child that way, even though mothers do, but its just makes me sick to think that PR would do that to her(dead or alive), and saying that makes me believe that it was one of the 2 males in the house.... And the SA on her was staging, making it LOOK like an intruder was there

 

[elannia]

I have no idea about what was used for the SA on JB, I was pointing out that IF a paintbrush was used I cannot see a mother sexually abusing her child that way, even though mothers do, but its just makes me sick to think that PR would do that to her(dead or alive), and saying that makes me believe that it was one of the 2 males in the house

I also believe Melody Stanton heard the scream that night, and it came from the basement, i meant that if JB screamed elsewhere in the house could she have heard?, I dont think so, detectives did test the scream in the basement, im just trying to figure out like everyone else where the whole thing took place, if she screamed downstairs, then this is where the head bash, etc occurred, she couldn't have screamed at the breakfast bar, and MS hear her, so maybe it did start upstairs then led to the basement when something happened, she screamed, MS heard her, then etc, etc

 

[otg]

otg,
I agree with you. I also find Kolars theory difficult to understand, particularly that it all originated in the breakfast bar.

Without a better explanation as to why he thinks it originated at the breakfast bar, we can only speculate. I suspect (speculate) that he is basing that on his belief that the entire incident was started as a disagreement over the pineapple. Were that the case, it would not account for the sexual assault as being anything more than staging. And I completely disagree with that.

I doubt Kolar is suggesting JonBenet was dragged down to the basement but more pulled by the arms across the basement floor, say from the train room to next to the wine-cellar?

Is there evidence of her body being dragged anywhere? I haven’t seen it in the photos of the WC. Was there evidence of it on her clothes or the blanket? As dirty as that basement was, I can’t imagine something light-colored being dragged even a few feet without picking up a lot of dirt. And again... if she had been dragged, why leave her arms up when the blanket was wrapped around her?

Whatever happened and where it took place was not originally next to the wine-cellar, the latter is simply a convenient location to assist in staging an abduction.

So do you discount the scream, UKG? That's fine if you do -- not everyone thinks Stanton really heard a scream. But if you think there was a scream, it almost had to have been let out from the basement near the furnace. And if it did, you have to ask what was going on to cause the scream.

I do not think the paintbrush played a role in the initial assault, it was simply part of the staging.

Aha! Then that is where we parted ways. Do you think that someone assaulted her with the paintbrush (while she was alive yet) causing blood to be all over her genitals, her legs, and probably some of her clothes with the intent of making it look like sexual assault? And then afterwards, you think they cleaned up all the evidence of the sexual assault that they had just faked? Really? Does that make sense to you?

One aspect of the staging that is curious is the wiping clean of JonBenet and changing her underwear, since leaving her bloodied would not detract from an abduction, just that the abductor had assaulted JonBenet in the course of the crime.

It’s more than “curious”, my friend. Don’t you think it’s contradictory to the idea that the sexual assault was staged?

 

[otg]

I agree it's possible JBR was dragged, but as you say, only a short distance (from the train room to the wine-cellar, otherwise there would be more blatant evidence of dragging). However, do you think it's possible JR or PR carried JBR upstairs after finding her unconscious in the basement and placed her on her bed, later returning her to the basement? That may be able to account for the drop of blood found on her pillow and fibers consistent with those of the cord also on the bed. All JMO, of course.

The blood on JonBenet’s pillow (I think) has had too much significance placed on it. The only reason it has ever been discussed is because of a line of questioning in one of the Ramsey interviews with BPD. We don’t know how much was there or how old it was. We don’t know if it was a drop or a smear. It’s because of this uncertainty that some really smart poster :wink: asked James Kolar about it in his AMA on Reddit. Here’s the exchange:

Question:
Because of a line of questioning in one of Patsy Ramsey’s police interviews, there is speculation about blood on JonBenet’s pillow. Is this just a small smear (like from wiping her nose), or is there an actual blood stain as might be expected from some type of injury?

Answer:
My apologies, but in some instances it has been years since I reviewed information about specific topics or evidence and my memory is a little vague in some areas. With that qualifier, it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’

For sake of clarification, the only bleeding sustained from an injury was due to the vaginal intrusion. The blow to JBR’s head did not break the scalp and there was no exterior bleeding from that wound. Further, the coroner made no mention of an injury to her nose, or nasal bleeding. Draw your own conclusions.
​

https://www.***********/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/30nfvc/hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/

I think the “fibers consistent with those of the cord” being on the bed is a misconception. I can’t remember if it was ever agreed upon (maybe someone else can help out here), but I believe the rope/cord fibers were more consistent with the rope found in John Andrew’s room.



(Note: I'm not sure why the link to Reddit(dot)com is being automatically suppressed above, but I think everyone should be able to figure out how to get there.)

 

[BOESP]

I can't see anyone deciding to use a paintbrush to assault JonBenet, especially a paintbrush in the foyer just outside the wine cellar unless it was a part of staging designed to cover up the real sexual assault. That just seems very far-fetched to me.:snooty:

 

[questfortrue]

I can't see anyone deciding to use a paintbrush to assault JonBenet, especially a paintbrush in the foyer just outside the wine cellar unless it was a part of staging designed to cover up the real sexual assault. That just seems very far-fetched to me.:snooty:

It is far-fetched. I've tried to figure it out and have only come up with some ideas. Maybe someone else will be able to come to definite conclusions, because it is truly hard to understand. Here are some thoughts on it -

The autopsy and the verbal comments to those present at the autopsy (including LA) were that the vaginal damage was thought to have been caused digitally. This was also confirmed by the abuse experts who pointed to the 7:00 position of hymen erosion as indicative of abuse.

This does not rule out the theory of a mother utilizing a douche wand in the past. Nor does it rule out a fingernail causing an abrasion inside the vaginal vault which has also been noted as a possibility. That abrasion does seem to point to a fingernail or a foreign object inserted sometime, most likely the evening of the crime. For those who think PR responsible, maybe one could then conclude the fingernail may have caused bleeding.

Yet the autopsy also mentions the circumferential hyperemia, along with that 7:00 erosion position on her hymen, which Wecht pointed to as indicative of a finger and sexual abuse. So I was thinking, if a young boy used a paintbrush on his sister that night, this wouldn’t be juvenile male curiosity, particularly if he had been penetrating her in the past. It reflects as vindictive anger meant to hurt her. However, as others have reasoned, it also could point to an adult wanting to cause some bleeding to hide prior abuse and create a pedophile perpetrator image.

But . . . then the bleeding is covered up. UKGuy had a good point, even a juvenile would know to stanch her bleeding and wipe up blood and try to hide that she had been assaulted. Here’s where I rule Patsy out as having placed the oversize Bloomies on her. She gave one of the biggest tap dances of her life saying that JB wanted those Bloomies so she had put them in her drawer. (A lie, they were never found there.) One of the adults may have analyzed that it would be a good idea to remove the rest of those Bloomies and perhaps hide them in one of the bags destined for Charlevoix. Another adult calculation?

So that leaves BR or JR as having chosen the Bloomies, after cleaning, redressing her to hide her bleeding. Since JR’s shirt fibers are in the crotch of these brand new panties, it does seem to place him at the scene. Did he take over after the injury of his daughter? Just by the actions, it seems to me JR is wishing to hide the injury, not create a pedophile perpetrator image. Of course, from what I can tell there were at least two stagers, who were down there at different times, so we can’t know for sure here. The duct tape and the loose wrist cords which JR partially removed, indicate PR at the scene at a different time.

I recognize the third possibility involving PR can’t be eliminated, i.e., that PR fell apart after utilizing a douche wand on her and flinging her against something causing the head injury. I can’t discount it.

But if it was a paintbrush, I do come back to BR as the perpetrator of this injury. It certainly could have been an adult’s twisted thinking, but the injury itself seems less indicative of JR to hide prior abuse and more like a juvenile anger action.

Lastly, a final consideration is that perhaps JB suffered an assault on Christmas afternoon. This would be a digital assault and account for the circumferential hyperemia described by Wecht. The only reason I bring it up is that the stories of the adults about JB and her bicycle are extremely inconsistent, and the mother of the two girls who went to play at the home, said that JB was sick, and they weren’t able to play with her. The interviewers asked a lot of questions about JB’s activities on Christmas, including what juvenile males were playing at the home on Christmas day. So they may have had some suspicions about abuse on Christmas afternoon. Also, the neighbor saw BR on his bicycle, but not JB on hers.

Just thoughts, no definitive ‘aha’ conclusions. Apologies for trying to reason my way through what is so incomprehensible it speaks to unfathomable dreadfulness and to real mental issues.

 

[UKGuy]

Without a better explanation as to why he thinks it originated at the breakfast bar, we can only speculate. I suspect (speculate) that he is basing that on his belief that the entire incident was started as a disagreement over the pineapple. Were that the case, it would not account for the sexual assault as being anything more than staging. And I completely disagree with that.


Is there evidence of her body being dragged anywhere? I haven’t seen it in the photos of the WC. Was there evidence of it on her clothes or the blanket? As dirty as that basement was, I can’t imagine something light-colored being dragged even a few feet without picking up a lot of dirt. And again... if she had been dragged, why leave her arms up when the blanket was wrapped around her?


So do you discount the scream, UKG? That's fine if you do -- not everyone thinks Stanton really heard a scream. But if you think there was a scream, it almost had to have been let out from the basement near the furnace. And if it did, you have to ask what was going on to cause the scream.


Aha! Then that is where we parted ways. Do you think that someone assaulted her with the paintbrush (while she was alive yet) causing blood to be all over her genitals, her legs, and probably some of her clothes with the intent of making it look like sexual assault? And then afterwards, you think they cleaned up all the evidence of the sexual assault that they had just faked? Really? Does that make sense to you?


It’s more than “curious”, my friend. Don’t you think it’s contradictory to the idea that the sexual assault was staged?

otg,
I dont discount the scream, just that it does not add much to understanding what took place. If there was a scream, and assuming it was JonBenet, then naturally it follows she was being assaulted, but we know that anyway! The scream might have been Patsy finding an injured JonBenet?

The common sense approach suggests sexual assault followed by a scream, then the head blow, lastly staging including a cleanup?

To repeat, I do not think the paintbrush was employed in the initial assault, I can see no rationale for its use. Not to mention if it has been established the assault took place in the basement?

Someone assaulted JonBenet whilst alive causing the bleeding. Coroner Meyer states:

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To

She was likely then cleaned up with her size-6 underwear, with the size-12's replacing those. Coroner Meyer states:

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that he observed red stains in the crotch area of the panties that the child was wearing at the time that the child's body was subjected to the external visual examination. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that the red stain appeared to be consistent with blood. Det. Arndt further informed the Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that after examining the panties (as described above), he observed the exterior pubic area of the child's body located next to the areas of the panties containing the red stains and found no visible reddish stains in that area. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that his opinion is that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped by a cloth.

So it appears someone wiped JonBenet clean again? So provisionally thats two staging events, was it the same person who wiped JonBenet clean on both occassions?

Kolar appears to suggest JonBenet's assailant carried out the sexual assault, head blow and asphyxiation, which exceeds other theories I've read about.

So depending on how you interpret Coroner Meyer's observations, someone wiped JonBenet clean, after she was redressed in the size-12's, presumably since she continued to bleed after the initial cleanup?

The paintbrush appears to have used in-situ, next to the wine-cellar, shards from the paintbrush were found on the carpet, suggesting it was broken there, likely against the wall, then employed to asphyxiate JonBenet.

Why one piece of the broken paintbrush is missing with another piece replaced in the paint-tote, and the third used in the asphyxiation device is yet another curiosity?

It appears someone staged the wine-cellar crime-scene, this person redressed JonBenet in the white gap top, and white longjohns, depositing her pink bloodstained barbie nightgown into the wine-cellar but another person redressed her in the size-12's?

The white gap top and longjohns, are consistent with the Ramsey version of events, the size-12's are not!

IMO, size-12's apart, it seems the staging was enacted to obscure a sexual assault and prior manual strangulation via the use of the paintbrush and ligature, since the R's assumed JonBenet would be discovered? Unlike the marks on her neck, beneath the ligature furrow, the head injury was hidden from sight, so even if the parents were aware of its occurrence, there was no staging requirements.

So to all intents and purposes JonBenet had been taken from her bed, directly down to the basement and asphyxiated with the paintbrush handle and ligature. Naturally this MO and the ransom note appears inconsistent?

.

 

[Fides]

Aha! Then that is where we parted ways. Do you think that someone assaulted her with the paintbrush (while she was alive yet) causing blood to be all over her genitals, her legs, and probably some of her clothes with the intent of making it look like sexual assault? And then afterwards, you think they cleaned up all the evidence of the sexual assault that they had just faked?

Really? Does that make sense to you?It’s more than “curious”, my friend. Don’t you think it’s contradictory to the idea that the sexual assault was staged?

It fits well with the theory that BR staged a sexual assault/murder by a "bad guy" to hide accidentally killing his sister (he thought). Then his mother woke up and found her clearly dead daughter. She heard the story and sent her son to bed. She cleaned her up to hide the sexual assault, tucked her in a blanket and staged a failed kidnapping to hide the garrote used by her son.

 

[carolbell]

It fits well with the theory that BR staged a sexual assault/murder by a "bad guy" to hide accidentally killing his sister (he thought). Then his mother woke up and found her clearly dead daughter. She heard the story and sent her son to bed. She cleaned her up to hide the sexual assault, tucked her in a blanket and staged a failed kidnapping to hide the garrote used by her son.

I agree with you that Mother woke up and saw her daughter who she thought was dead. She sent son to his room. Then, I believe she called out for the Father. I believe Father did the garrote and tied her up, Mother went up and wrote the RN. One thing I can't figure out is why there are no tears on either R.N. or body. Mine would be smeared all over everything.

 

[Fides]

I agree with you that Mother woke up and saw her daughter who she thought was dead. She sent son to his room. Then, I believe she called out for the Father. I believe Father did the garrote and tied her up, Mother went up and wrote the RN. One thing I can't figure out is why there are no tears on either R.N. or body. Mine would be smeared all over everything.

Hi Carolbell,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I disagree in that I don't think there is evidence of collusion between the parents during the night of JonBenet's death. Their stories lack cohesion and consistency regarding the pineapple, the broken window, and the flashlight. I also think if the parents encountered a scene where BR hit JBR in the head, they would call an ambulance.

But what if BR did not realize his sister was still alive, and HE tried to fake a crime scene to avoid discovery by his parents? And what if his mother found that horrifying faked crime scene of sexual assault and ligatures? I believe that she would herself try to cover up THAT scene. She would clean up her daughter to eliminate any evidence of a sexual nature and write a ransom note that mentioned beheading. And then she would pretend she knew nothing, and call her husband for help, and call 911.

If John became aware of any of this in the night, I belive that lawyers would be called and the parents would learn that BR was not criminally responsible in any way for any of his actions. But Patsy alone? I fear that she tried to make it all go away in a most bizarre, but logical to her, fashion.

 

[DeeDee249]

The blood on JonBenet’s pillow (I think) has had too much significance placed on it. The only reason it has ever been discussed is because of a line of questioning in one of the Ramsey interviews with BPD. We don’t know how much was there or how old it was. We don’t know if it was a drop or a smear. It’s because of this uncertainty that some really smart poster :wink: asked James Kolar about it in his AMA on Reddit. Here’s the exchange:

Question:
Because of a line of questioning in one of Patsy Ramsey’s police interviews, there is speculation about blood on JonBenet’s pillow. Is this just a small smear (like from wiping her nose), or is there an actual blood stain as might be expected from some type of injury?

Answer:
My apologies, but in some instances it has been years since I reviewed information about specific topics or evidence and my memory is a little vague in some areas. With that qualifier, it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’

For sake of clarification, the only bleeding sustained from an injury was due to the vaginal intrusion. The blow to JBR’s head did not break the scalp and there was no exterior bleeding from that wound. Further, the coroner made no mention of an injury to her nose, or nasal bleeding. Draw your own conclusions.
​

https://www.***********/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/30nfvc/hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/

I think the “fibers consistent with those of the cord” being on the bed is a misconception. I can’t remember if it was ever agreed upon (maybe someone else can help out here), but I believe the rope/cord fibers were more consistent with the rope found in John Andrew’s room.



(Note: I'm not sure why the link to Reddit(dot)com is being automatically suppressed above, but I think everyone should be able to figure out how to get there.)

The blood on JB's pillow- real or not- was called into question because of an odd comment that Patsy made to LE was they were looking at JB's bed and the decorative curtains behind the headboard. It was never clear (at least to me) whether they were actually in her bedroom or looking at photos - Patsy said "I don't see any blood, do you?" Patsy had been asked whether JB ever had nosebleeds.
As for the fibers- this is one of those internet tidbits that gets mixed up with other information and never goes away. There were said to be HEMP fibers on her bedsheets that were consistent with the type of hemp rope found in JAR's bedroom, adjacent to JB's own room. This is the type of rope that is seen around JB's feet in one of her more well-known photos where she is wearing pigtails and jeans- a kind of "country girl" pose. That same type of rope was said to have been used as a garland on a Christmas tree in JAR's bedroom- it had a cowboy theme- (all of Patsy's trees had themes) with miniature cowboy boots and saddles. It was never proved to be the fibers from the cord around her neck. The bedrooms all had carpets. Even with regular vacuuming, there will ALWAYS be remnants of old material in wall-to-wall carpet. Kids don't wear shoes in bed. All it takes is walking on a carpet barefoot to track fibers from anywhere in the house or anything that has ever been IN the house onto a bedsheet.

 

[questfortrue]

:bump:

Bumping this as a refresher for newer posters. Some highlights:

- OTG’s research into an interpretation of the True Bills as relates to Colorado Statutes, including thoughts from an attorney.

- An ardent effort on the part of Boesp to remind that DNA can be inclusive, but not exclusive. (The media have interpreted it as ‘exclusive’ and it seems to always provide a soundbite for attorney LW.)

And a footnote to it some of this: When a tough case came along, the Boulder DA’s office had been known to step up to the microphone and comment that evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt did not exist. The reality is the current DA SG DID take a number of cold cases to court, which had been left languishing because of AH’s lack of background in prosecution. In this particular case many, including some agents with the FBI, believe obstruction of justice occurred. ST’s book IRMI and SuperDave’s book An Angel Betrayed give more background on this.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I agree with you that Mother woke up and saw her daughter who she thought was dead. She sent son to his room. Then, I believe she called out for the Father. I believe Father did the garrote and tied her up, Mother went up and wrote the RN. One thing I can't figure out is why there are no tears on either R.N. or body. Mine would be smeared all over everything.

There are a lot of things I cant figure out

But the lack of tears isn't one of them

They didn't cry because They Werent Sorry

They didn't cry because it Wasn't An Accident

They didn't cry because they made MILLIONS off their dead baby girl.

They didn't cry because they were too busy coldly staging a Fake Kidnap Attempt to cover What They Did for Christmas.

And now JR, like certain other murderers I could name, is in love with his Public, in love with the Cameras, in love with Fame and Being Important>>>>runs for Office

Hiding in Plain Sight in other words...

JMO