Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty Two

[Talina]

Walgren can blow all the DT theories out of the water on his closing. To believe any of their scenarios, MJ would have just been running around at will with an IV portal in his left knee, condom catheter, rolling an IV pole, taking his oral medications whenever he felt like another dosage..and oh by the way - toss in a bolus of propofol that CM just was thoughtful enough to leave there for him. All of this without CM noticing something was awry. Alrighty then. And during all of this time, where was his doctor?

 

[Credence]

This is the tox report for propofol found in MJ's system.

I still do not understand why the urine would be used to determine how much propofol was given since once your heart stops beating or blood is no longer circulating it would never reach the urine. The blood levels are much higher which is what Dr. Shafer used to determine that more than 25/50mg had been administered. I hope Dr. Shafer explains it during rebuttal.

http://dearconradmurray.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Page50-Toxicology-Report-Summary2.jpg

 

[Talina]

This is the tox report for propofol found in MJ's system.

I still do not understand why the urine would be used to determine how much propofol was given since once your heart stops beating or blood is no longer circulating it would never reach the urine. The blood levels are much higher which is what Dr. Shafer used to determine that more than 25/50mg had been administered. I hope Dr. Shafer explains it during rebuttal.

http://dearconradmurray.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Page50-Toxicology-Report-Summary2.jpg

I've wondered the same thing. How could a bolus of propofol that cause his near immediate death also simultaneously show up in his urine???

 

[Credence]

Walgren can blow all the DT theories out of the water on his closing. To believe any of their scenarios, MJ would have just been running around at will with an IV portal in his left knee, condom catheter, rolling an IV pole, taking his oral medications whenever he felt like another dosage..and oh by the way - toss in a bolus of propofol that CM just was thoughtful enough to leave there for him. All of this without CM noticing something was awry. Alrighty then. And during all of this time, where was his doctor?

When this trial is over, I expect to see this skit on SNL.

 

[borndem]

Thanks Peace. I was having trouble with them too the past week or so. I thought it was just my computer acting up.

I even just now tried to copy them over from the first week of the trial to see if that would work. They work on those days (I just now tested them) but as soon as I copy them over, they don't so I have no idea what is going on with them.

Same here - I kept getting a msg. about "portal not open" or similar. But earlier ones do work for me.

 

[Credence]

I've wondered the same thing. How could a bolus of propofol that cause his near immediate death also simultaneously show up in his urine???

Exactly - it would still have to metabolize and it couldn't if no circulation. Just does not make sense to me unless I am missing something

 

[octobermoon]

Why are we even hearing about Ambien? There was no Ambien in MJ's system. GRRRR

 

[outofstatelawyer]

Oh Geez, White said he has "no experience" with Ambien, and now Flanagan is asking him a series of questions about Ambien...wasting time, anyone?

 

[Credence]

Oh Geez, White said he has "no experience" with Ambien, and now Flanagan is asking him a series of questions about Ambien...wasting time, anyone?

In an attempt to just confuse this jury. I was happy to hear that a juror has biochemistry background.

 

[borndem]

Judge Pastor said yesterday, at the end of court, that today's court session would begin at 9:30 am.

I also read/heard that CM has until 11:30 am PST today, to decide & inform the court if he'll testify.


ETA: 5 minutes to showtime.

This is my first trial in Calif - (again, I must say -->) In NC, we have always watched that exchange on a live feed. Asked and answered, in front of the jury. Also, CM could have told them that he wouldn't, but he can always respond, "Yes, I will Your Honor," when he's asked. Then we'll all need a dose of lorazepam and sound-proof rooms!!!!!!!!!!

Here's to arrogance for CM!!!!

 

[Credence]

Recross -- no questions by Walgren -- finally.......

Judge requested to see counsel

I understand CM has to make up his mind about testifying by 11AMPT (which is about 40 minutes I believe)

 

[octobermoon]

Dr. White is excused.

 

[peace9274]

What dose are they using for ativan in this scenario? I've given ativan / lorazapam a zillion times when a psych patient complains of being "up-tight", anxious, and when s/he are totally "out of control."

The state of sedation, regardless of pt's state prior to giving the med, varies widely.

Some patients go into a very deep sleep, with loud noises & other stimulation close by.. they sleep right through it.

Other patients are not affected at all by a 2 mg injection of ativan/lorazapam

 

[ges79]

Break time. JP says they have matters to discuss.

 

[octobermoon]

I bet this jury is getting tired of being "poptarts" to quote HHJP from the Anthony trial.

 

[Isabelle]

This is the tox report for propofol found in MJ's system.

I still do not understand why the urine would be used to determine how much propofol was given since once your heart stops beating or blood is no longer circulating it would never reach the urine. The blood levels are much higher which is what Dr. Shafer used to determine that more than 25/50mg had been administered. I hope Dr. Shafer explains it during rebuttal.

http://dearconradmurray.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Page50-Toxicology-Report-Summary2.jpg

The only reason I can see for Propofol to be higher in the blood than the urine is that Michael was dead and the Propofol continued to infuse. Urine levels of drugs in a live person would indicate what the blood level WAS at a time prior to urine production, not what it is while the urine is in the bladder.

 

[Isabelle]

I've wondered the same thing. How could a bolus of propofol that cause his near immediate death also simultaneously show up in his urine???

It wouldn't.

 

[Credence]

The only reason I can see for Propofol to be higher in the blood than the urine is that Michael was dead and the Propofol continued to infuse. Urine levels of drugs in a live person would indicate what the blood level WAS at a time prior to urine production, not what it is while the urine is in the bladder.

Thanks Izzy. Dr. Shafer basically said the same thing. He said the blood levels were higher because it was a drip and the med continued to flow. The blood levels are what convinced him that a drip was used along with Murray's statements.

 

[Isabelle]

The only reason I can see for Propofol to be higher in the blood than the urine is that Michael was dead and the Propofol continued to infuse. Urine levels of drugs in a live person would indicate what the blood level WAS at a time prior to urine production, not what it is while the urine is in the bladder.

ETA: How well the kidneys are functioning would be a factor.

 

[peace9274]

Walgren can blow all the DT theories out of the water on his closing. To believe any of their scenarios, MJ would have just been running around at will with an IV portal in his left knee, condom catheter, rolling an IV pole, taking his oral medications whenever he felt like another dosage..and oh by the way - toss in a bolus of propofol that CM just was thoughtful enough to leave there for him. All of this without CM noticing something was awry. Alrighty then. And during all of this time, where was his doctor?

And because of the IV propofol dripping into his body, that CM started, MJ would be under heavy sedation.

Which means he would be doing all of the above which you described... while heavy, deep sleep-walking.