Day 2 The Pineapple in the Bowl/ 12 Days of JonBenet

[reintarnation]

I don't know if the pineapple has anything whatsoever to do with the crime - I feel like if it was somehow linked to her death then it wouldn't have been forgotten. This evidence at least indicates that PR and JR are lying about some things. It tells us that the "she was asleep the whole time" mantra was a rouse. Someone in that house knows that JBR ate pineapple. What are they hiding?

IMO, the scenario with the pineapple plays out one of two ways:

1. The kids had a pineapple snack before bed, fed by PR. PR and JR had to lie about JBR being asleep the whole time because they don't want to explain what happened leading up to her death (too many opportunities to slip up; too many details lead to suspicion). The easiest thing is to say she was asleep (who can contradict that?). The pineapple was forgotten because PR and JR were focused on cleaning up evidence of the crime.

2. PR prepared the pineapple at some prior time and BR got it out of the fridge for he and JBR to snack on after they got home. PR and JR are not aware, and BR forgets to clean up the bowl. Maybe he only got it out for JBR and leaves her with it, so she forgets to put it away. BR doesn't mention it because he's afraid he'll get in trouble for letting her have it and being up with her after she was supposed to be in bed. Or, perhaps he did tell his parents and they coached him to forget it and stick to their story that she was asleep the whole time.

So ultimately, why lie about it and insist she was asleep? Because something happened between the time the family got home and when JBR was murdered that led to her death. So they lie, get caught in a lie (one of many), and try to dismiss it as irrelevant evidence.

Did they ever imply that the intruder fed it to her? If they did that is idiotic - it doesn't fit with their critical stun gun theory. Maybe they did and then dropped it once Lou Smit gifted the stun gun theory to their defense team?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am hoping there will be more evidence released. Something that will start something going again.
I'd like to see more about pineapple but I don't think it is the key to anything that will solve it.


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[rojamom]

On one of Tricia's excellent radio interviews with Chief Kolar, he shared his theory that the late-night pineapple snack in the kitchen may have been where the entire chain of events began that night. I apologize that I can't remember which interview it was, but maybe Tricia can remember. Anyway, my pineapple theory is very similar to Kolar's. I think there was some sort of argument over the pineapple between BR and JonBenet that night.

Here's one possible scenario (this is all just conjecture on my part): Perhaps PR set the snack out only for BR since he was still awake and saying he was hungry. So she gives him the bowl of pineapple and the iced tea and then goes back upstairs to continue packing & getting ready for the trip. Meanwhile, BR is alone in the kitchen having his pineapple & down comes JonBenet. She wants pineapple, too. BR doesn't want to share his snack, and an argument ensues. (This is the typical kind of thing that happens between siblings -- my brother and I used to have these squabbles all the time when we were kids, too.) But then, things take a drastic turn. JonBenet grabs a few chunks of pineapple out of the bowl and eats them. BR is furious with her, and as JonBenet tries to escape his grasp, BR grabs hold of her shirt collar and twists/yanks hard on it. His knuckles dig into her neck (this would account for the triangular bruise on her neck found at autopsy.) JonBenet is struggling, probably clawing a bit at the tightening shirt collar (which would account for some of any abrasions on her neck that aren't actually petechiae), and trying to yell out for PR. Desperate not to get into trouble, BR grabs the maglite flashlight that had previously been left out on the counter by PR and bashes her over the head with it -- but the blow is so hard that she is rendered unconscious and immediately collapses to the floor.

Since this thread is strictly for talking about the pineapple I won't go into what I think happened next, but you get the general idea.

In this scenario, PR would have been oblivious to any of this because she was upstairs. She wouldn't have been aware that the pineapple set off the whole chain of events, or that the flashlight was used to crack her skull. So during the subsequent staging of the "kidnapping" (which I do believe PR took a major part in), she wouldn't know to get rid of these items.

 

[Lamima]

My thoughts are that BR fed her the pineapple. I think they got home and the kids wanted to play with their Xmas toys. But mom and pop wanted to hit the hay since they had to get up early for that flight. So they went off to bed letting the kiddos to fend for themselves. Maybe the kids would fall asleep in the living room. Maybe big bro was annoyed to have to deal with little sis while he was trying to build, whatever it was John said he was building...a train or something. He tried to give her some pineapple in the kitchen. She came and bugged him some more. Maybe PR and JR awoke to screaming and discover an injured JBR. Or one awoke to fighting or noisy kiddos at 2am and they lost temper and injured JBR. So I do think she ate the pineapple that day. But I think PR isn't lying when she claims she didn't give JBR anything to eat. I think there are some truths in PR and JR's story. Like on the A&E show when JR said something like 'parents don't expect to go to bed at night and awake the next day to ...gotta go back and rewatch...BRB...but it struck me as an honest statement.

He said "think of going to sleep, thinking your children are safe in bed, thinking you're going to get up and have a wonderful day with them and you get up and find one of them murdered".

 

[Tadpole12]

I don't have any faith in kolars fantasies or tales.



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Heyya SS


Maybe BR's appearance on DP
will leave everyone confident his innocence.

 

[Tadpole12]

second trailer

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/09/the

 

[Tadpole12]

madeleine
VF link
2 tiarras @1:44
props?

 

[otg]

second trailer

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/09/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-trailer-2#6

WHAT??

a TIARA next to the blankettttt???????

@min 3, 08

The tiara lying by the blanket caught my eye too. Could that be the blacked out item in the SW inventory list? Here's the order of items from the inventory (http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant09.gif):

Fibers from area by victim (1KKY)
Fibers from winecellar (2KKY)
Avalanche sweatshirt covering body (4KKY)
Blanket covering body (5KKY)
Wire near body (7KKY)
Fibers from under body (8KKY)
(BLACKED OUT ITEM)
White blanket in wine cellar (11KKY)
Pink Barbie nightgown from wine cellar (12KKY)
Broken glass from wine cellar (13KKY)
Hair fibers from floor of wine cellar (14KKY)
Broken paint brush (21KKY)
Wooden shards near paint tray (22KKY)
Paint Tray (25KKY)
​

I know that in the CBS they are attempting to recreate everything as close as possible to the actual crime scene, so that's the only reason it makes sense that they would include it.

If this is true, it could only mean one thing: It was placed there by Patsy Ramsey. No one, I mean, absolutely NO ONE else would even think to do something like that. JonBenet's participation in the beauty pageants was that important to only one person: PATSY!

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant09.gif

it's a long black redaction

 

[madeleine]

The tiara lying by the blanket caught my eye too. Could that be the blacked out item in the SW inventory list? Here's the order of items from the inventory (http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant09.gif):

Fibers from area by victim (1KKY)
Fibers from winecellar (2KKY)
Avalanche sweatshirt covering body (4KKY)
Blanket covering body (5KKY)
Wire near body (7KKY)
Fibers from under body (8KKY)
(BLACKED OUT ITEM)
White blanket in wine cellar (11KKY)
Pink Barbie nightgown from wine cellar (12KKY)
Broken glass from wine cellar (13KKY)
Hair fibers from floor of wine cellar (14KKY)
Broken paint brush (21KKY)
Wooden shards near paint tray (22KKY)
Paint Tray (25KKY)
​

I know that in the CBS they are attempting to recreate everything as close as possible to the actual crime scene, so that's the only reason it makes sense that they would include it.

If this is true, it could only mean one thing: It was placed there by Patsy Ramsey. No one, I mean, absolutely NO ONE else would even think to do something like that. JonBenet's participation in the beauty pageants was that important to only one person: PATSY!

reminds me of one of the most horrible, disgusting thing about the case
they buried her with that stupid, MEANINGLESS thing on her head....its exactly what she needed, that freaking accessory on her cracked skull,makes me scream really

tells me all I need to know about them...sweep it all under the carpet, make it all LOOK prettier

she was only a lil bit molested no?

 

[TeaTime]

I am 100% convinced that no intruder entered the house and fed JBR pineapple and then killed her a few hours later.

I have always believed that he head injury happened at the Stine house, that PR thought (KNEW BETTER BUT IN DENIAL) it was swelling rather than a depression in the skull and called Nedra who told her to give the child diuretics - i.e., pineapple and tea and wake her every hour to make sure she was okay.

 

[YouWho]

I don't know if the pineapple has anything whatsoever to do with the crime - I feel like if it was somehow linked to her death then it wouldn't have been forgotten. This evidence at least indicates that PR and JR are lying about some things. It tells us that the "she was asleep the whole time" mantra was a rouse. Someone in that house knows that JBR ate pineapple. What are they hiding?

IMO, the scenario with the pineapple plays out one of two ways:

1. The kids had a pineapple snack before bed, fed by PR. PR and JR had to lie about JBR being asleep the whole time because they don't want to explain what happened leading up to her death (too many opportunities to slip up; too many details lead to suspicion). The easiest thing is to say she was asleep (who can contradict that?). The pineapple was forgotten because PR and JR were focused on cleaning up evidence of the crime.

2. PR prepared the pineapple at some prior time and BR got it out of the fridge for he and JBR to snack on after they got home. PR and JR are not aware, and BR forgets to clean up the bowl. Maybe he only got it out for JBR and leaves her with it, so she forgets to put it away. BR doesn't mention it because he's afraid he'll get in trouble for letting her have it and being up with her after she was supposed to be in bed. Or, perhaps he did tell his parents and they coached him to forget it and stick to their story that she was asleep the whole time.

So ultimately, why lie about it and insist she was asleep? Because something happened between the time the family got home and when JBR was murdered that led to her death. So they lie, get caught in a lie (one of many), and try to dismiss it as irrelevant evidence.

Did they ever imply that the intruder fed it to her? If they did that is idiotic - it doesn't fit with their critical stun gun theory. Maybe they did and then dropped it once Lou Smit gifted the stun gun theory to their defense team?

2. Remember the 'too big spoon'? The photo of the pineapple bowl shows a huge spoon - like a serving spoon - in the bowl. And patsy claimed she would never serve a bowl of food that way (for shame!)
But it does seem like something a kid would do.
Could this have been the catalyst? Something along the lines of, "What are you kids doing, you need to be in bed! We have to get up early in the morning!" BR high tails it to his room, but JBR is frozen in fear of psycho mom. PR grabs her by the collar, causing the triangle shaped bruise at her neck, and JBR is so scared she wets and/or soils herself and that's when PR loses it completely, grabs the first thing she sees (Maglight flashlight?) and eventually bashes her over the head.
I know ST believes the attack occurred in JB's bedroom/bathroom, but perhaps the pineapple was part of it too.
It just begs the Q why wouldn't she distance herself from the pineapple by cleaning it up. Perhaps she was so blinded by her exhaustion that she figured it could work in concert with an intruder fantasy.

 

[Denlawyer]

Pineapple is proof the Ramseys lied about JBR being asleep. I don't think it's part of the actual crime; just strong evidence the Rs lied about her being asleep just like there's strong evidence they lied about BR being asleep the next morning. Sleeping is convenient and means less explaining. They lied and the only reason they lied is obvious (involvement).

The tiara is mind boggling; on one hand I cannot believe that's accurate since it's never been reported before. Then again, this show--as I understand it--is purely factual and investigatory so I highly doubt they are adding things for dramatic purposes, especially something as important as that. If true, any notion or argument of IDI goes out the window in my opinion. In staging, PR could not help herself but to add JBR's favorite things (blanket, tiara, barbie, etc.). IMO.

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Like Tricia said, I noted that the A&E documentary didn't say a peep about the pineapple either. (How convenient, right?).

But,when I went back and reviewed some of the "never-before-seen secret documents" that the show included, I froze the screen and did see mention of the pineapple in the memo that was written from the DA's office to the Boulder PD outlining the holes they thought existed in trying to make a case against the parents.

If you freeze the screen at 46 minutes into the program, you'll see the memo. One of the headings is "Pineapple Photo." Below that it says:

"The pineapple is not evidence that the Ramseys were lying.

• What is in the Tupperware?
• It is in the stomach generally 2 hours.
  
• It is then in the small intestines 3 to 24 hours.
• Dr. Michael Graham said it could have been eaten the day before."

So it would appear that the DA office had found an expert (Dr. Graham) who gave the opinion that the pineapple wasn't necessarily "a smoking gun" (so to speak) that could be used to prove the Ramseys were lying.

What we know for sure: raw pineapple WAS found in JonBenet's upper intestine during the autopsy. The fact that it could still be identified as raw pineapple suggests that it had only entered the small intestines recently as opposed to a day before, but this might be tough to prove irrefutably. Don't get me wrong -- I'm one who absolutely believes she ate that pineapple only a few hours before she was strangled to death. I'm hoping that the CBS documentary can give us Henry Lee or a similar uber-expert to tell us definitely when she ate that pineapple!

The two bolded lines is what confuses a lot of people, and it is deliberately used by IDI's <mod snip>to say she could have even eaten the pineapple much earlier in the day or even on the day prior. But the "3 to 24 hours" is referring to food's entire journey through the length of the small intestine to its emptying into the cecum of the large intestine. While the pineapple was in her duodenum (the proximal portion of the small intestine), that is the entry point into the small intestine from the stomach. It does not take up to 24 hours for any food to reach that location. More pertinent to the pineapple found in JonBenet's intestinal tract is the "generally 2 hours" that it is expected to be in the stomach.

 

[SCHMAE]

I will speculate that the tiara is more for ' show' for the tv show and not necessarily a part of the recreation. Every ID show I watch has snakes or scorpions slithering across kitchen counters right before a murder but I don't think they are really there. My two cents.

 

[SCHMAE]

I am 100% convinced that no intruder entered the house and fed JBR pineapple and then killed her a few hours later.

I have always believed that he head injury happened at the Stine house, that PR thought (KNEW BETTER BUT IN DENIAL) it was swelling rather than a depression in the skull and called Nedra who told her to give the child diuretics - i.e., pineapple and tea and wake her every hour to make sure she was okay.

This is a fascinating theory.

 

[reintarnation]

In this scenario, PR would have been oblivious to any of this because she was upstairs. She wouldn't have been aware that the pineapple set off the whole chain of events, or that the flashlight was used to crack her skull. So during the subsequent staging of the "kidnapping" (which I do believe PR took a major part in), she wouldn't know to get rid of these items.

Your BDI theory is pretty solid, rojamom - thanks for sharing! If BDI, I think that sequence of events and motive is the most plausible.

However, I still think PR was lying about the pineapple because BR would have had to tell his parents what happened. And that's why I tend to not think that the pineapple really had anything to do with the crime - there's no way that PR and JR go to the trouble of destroying or hiding other evidence and forget about the flashlight that caused her head injury and the pineapple that caused the argument and ultimately led to her death. JMO!

 

[rob]

On one of Tricia's excellent radio interviews with Chief Kolar, he shared his theory that the late-night pineapple snack in the kitchen may have been where the entire chain of events began that night. I apologize that I can't remember which interview it was, but maybe Tricia can remember. Anyway, my pineapple theory is very similar to Kolar's. I think there was some sort of argument over the pineapple between BR and JonBenet that night.

Here's one possible scenario (this is all just conjecture on my part): Perhaps PR set the snack out only for BR since he was still awake and saying he was hungry. So she gives him the bowl of pineapple and the iced tea and then goes back upstairs to continue packing & getting ready for the trip. Meanwhile, BR is alone in the kitchen having his pineapple & down comes JonBenet. She wants pineapple, too. BR doesn't want to share his snack, and an argument ensues. (This is the typical kind of thing that happens between siblings -- my brother and I used to have these squabbles all the time when we were kids, too.) But then, things take a drastic turn. JonBenet grabs a few chunks of pineapple out of the bowl and eats them. BR is furious with her, and as JonBenet tries to escape his grasp, BR grabs hold of her shirt collar and twists/yanks hard on it. His knuckles dig into her neck (this would account for the triangular bruise on her neck found at autopsy.) JonBenet is struggling, probably clawing a bit at the tightening shirt collar (which would account for some of any abrasions on her neck that aren't actually petechiae), and trying to yell out for PR. Desperate not to get into trouble, BR grabs the maglite flashlight that had previously been left out on the counter by PR and bashes her over the head with it -- but the blow is so hard that she is rendered unconscious and immediately collapses to the floor.

Since this thread is strictly for talking about the pineapple I won't go into what I think happened next, but you get the general idea.

In this scenario, PR would have been oblivious to any of this because she was upstairs. She wouldn't have been aware that the pineapple set off the whole chain of events, or that the flashlight was used to crack her skull. So during the subsequent staging of the "kidnapping" (which I do believe PR took a major part in), she wouldn't know to get rid of these items.

This has been my theory all along. The kids were eating the pineapple, got into a squabble, BR picked up the Maglight and cracked JB in the head with it.
Since this is the pineapple thread, I don't know if I can continue, BUT: why the cover up? why not call 911? get an ambulance? the cops? Because in an accidental death, there will be an autopsy and then then sexual abuse will come out, that one parent was doing and one was covering up, and that would mess up the fantasy life of the R's. There is a doctor or doctors who know about that abuse, and if one would/could step forward, this case would have been settled long ago.
All MOO

 

[Tadpole12]

@ madeleine

 

[Tadpole12]

body, bicycle