Day 9 Statements from Ramseys & Team/ 12 Days of JonBenet.

[Scandigirl]

It leaves them as the "two people".

I cant hardly imagine one of the parents being left out of this equation. The case makes no sense at all when pulling one of her parents out of it. A safe bet that Patsy wrote the note and John was rearranging the basement that morning. If he had no involvement, he sure picked an odd time to start doing some early spring cleaning.

Bluecrab had a fairly elaborate BDI theory. Stun guns, Stine boy, Asian babysitters, etc.

A BDI theory isn't some new revelation just because CBS temporarily placed it on front street. You didn't say that obviously, I'm just making a general statement. It goes back to the very early years of this case. It simply never caught on over the past two decades. KOlar's book gave it a minor boost but then it receded. It will have a similar cycle this time. The focus will then veer back to John and Patsy.

Bluecrab is actually a great example to see how BDI plays out. It starts out simple but then comes the brick wall.....too much evidence and clues that have to be accounted for. So the theory either starts including various people colluding with him(Stine, babysitters) or it starts having him either write the note or assisting Patsy in the writing of the note and lately I've seen people mention him drawing the 'heart' on Jonbenet's hand. That little drawing probably doesn't have anything to do with that night's events but its an attempt to get him more deeply involved in what transpired.

Theories revolving around John and Patsy are the only ones with enough fuel to sustain them for decades. Everything else ranging from Burke, friendly intruders assisting him to the phantom ninja intruders always run out of gas.

I've seen otg and UK(and a few others) try to make a realistic case for it. While I'm not sold on Burke, I do applaud the effort. They take a middle ground approach between the overly simplistic scenario and the overly complex one ala Bluecrab and some others that have him throwing the kitchen sink.

Hi singularity, thanks for your thoughtful reply!

I agree with you, that I find it almost impossible to consider JR and PR not being involved (in the staging and cover up at least), very much together. Likewise, thinking that PR wrote the note (with or without JR's help), and JR staging in the basement (again, most likely with PR's help). The only thing that got me thinking about this, was that if PR was telling the truth (and that in itself is a huge if!!) about the "two people" in her quote, if it actually is true that BR is involved,then that only leaves room for one other parent, in the "two people". I started to wonder if BR and PR could possibly have been involved in the whole thing, with JR only finding out at the last minute? Exactly what JR's role was, and when he became involved etc has always been a bit of a puzzle to me.

I wondered if the quote from JR to Stuart Long was also true (again, a very big if!), that he found the body at 11am, could that possibly mean that he had nothing to do with it until that point, from when JB disappeared? But, then I realise that is probably ridiculous, and doesn't seem to fit with anything else, so I have ultimately gone round in circles- nothing unusual for me!

I'm BDI for the first time ever, but still open minded, and wanting to be lead by the actual evidence, either way. Rather than the CBS show, it was actually seeing for the first time BR's interviews in childhood and on Dr Phil that convinced me. But, if something else comes to light, I might swing another way again, I definitely have no idea on any details of BDI, though, and feel certain JR and PR are involved somehow, too.

Reading Blue Crab's BDI ideas is interesting, although they are mainly pretty far fetched. I don't agree with all his ideas, and some of them, like the stun gun, have since been widely abandoned, if not discredited. In fact, the more I think and read about this case in general, the less I feel I can be sure of anything at all! I always have far more questions than answers.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Scandigirl, that quote came from the press conference the Ramseys gave after the first police interview. I don't have a video but here's what the Daily Camera had to say:

She also asserted, without explanation, that "at least two" people in the world know the identity of the killer: The killer and "someone that that person may have confided in ... We need that one phone call" from such a confidant to break the case, she said. "If you know anything," she implored the public, looking straight into the television cameras, "I beg you to call us."
John Ramsey said he would make it his "sole mission for the rest of my life" to identify the killer and bring him or her to justice.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/05/02-2.html

I included John's remark about solving the case to contrast with his recent statement about how he's said all he has to say, no more interviews, I gotta get back to work. Yep, sounds like someone whose sole mission in life is finding that pesky intruder.

Anyway, that little slip from Patsy - if indeed it was a slip, at the very least it was odd - is one of the things that doesn't fit with BDI imo. Like you said, it's impossible to imagine one parent would be left out of the loop. Of course saying three people know what happened would give away the ruse, I guess! But I do think her comment about "two people" and confession is relevant somehow.

On a similar note, John Douglas (pro-Ramsey) testified in front of the GJ and bragged in his book about how his and Lou Smit's testimony prevented the GJ from indicting. That book came out only a few months before the indictment news broke, haha. Anyway, this quote was interesting to me.

I recall one member asking me something like, “What if we told you there was evidence that two people were involved in this crime?”
“I’ve investigated and testified in cases in which I thought there were two people involved,” I replied, “but I don’t see it here.” Then I added, “But if you actually have the evidence you mention, then why am I here? Why are you talking to me? Go with your evidence.”

Assuming this is true and he's telling it accurately, does that point to the GJ not thinking Burke was involved? Of course, hypothetically the juror could have said "more than one person" or something similar which wouldn't preclude B. One last rant, how is it this a-hole can violate GJ secrecy in his book and no one says boo, but Mary Lacy went to the Supreme Court to prevent LHP from doing the same in her book? Ugh.
Here's more about that book if you're interested.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/for...rmation-on-the-JonBenet-case-Law-and-Disorder

As for Crazy Aunt Pam's comment about 2 people, I don't specifically know what you're talking about but I'd bet good money she was referring to Fleet and Priscilla White. She was always making cryptic statements in the press about knowing who did it but not wanting to name names, etc. I don't recall how I learned this but they were her pet suspects, likely because JR and PR were feeding her nasty info about them after the friendship ended just like they kept trying to steer the police in that direction. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew the truth, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she's delusional enough to think they're innocent. You'll notice she was the only family member taking a bullet for them in the media whenever they'd let her on screen. Patsy's mom, other sister, dad, etc totally stayed out of it. And there was never a peep from JRs family. Was she media-hungry or the only one stupid enough to get involved. Well, probably both.

 

[Ambitioned]

When I read "at least two" I think Patsy/Burke but it could be three. When she said the killer and someone the killer confided in, she could have been out of it. she made a lot of slips.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Another recent weird quote is the one PW is using as a blurb for her new book.

“Do it for justice. If you affirm either Patsy or I was involved, then go ahead and write it.”
— JOHN RAMSEY TO WOODWARD, 2009

IF she AFFIRMS...that's just odd phrasing to me. Immediately took me back to OJ's If I Did It.

 

[PositiveLight]

When I read "at least two" I think Patsy/Burke but it could be three. When she said the killer and someone the killer confided in, she could have been out of it. she made a lot of slips.

I actually took the first part of her quote as a slip. Meaning 2 people knew who the killer was. (Imho JR and PR and referring to BR as the killer) she kind of caught herself and said the killer and the person that they confided in.
But then again PR was so medicated after JonBenet's death, I'm honestly shocked she didn't make many more slips. Don't forget the comments her and JR made when her body was discovered. I forget now the actual quotes (got a sleeping baby in my arms and can't get on comp) but something like "he didn't mean to do it" or " we didn't mean for this to happen".

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[BBB167893]

Another recent weird quote is the one PW is using as a blurb for her new book.

“Do it for justice. If you affirm either Patsy or I was involved, then go ahead and write it.”
— JOHN RAMSEY TO WOODWARD, 2009

IF she AFFIRMS...that's just odd phrasing to me. Immediately took me back to OJ's If I Did It.

Sounds like he was testing to see if she'd pick up on that. After all, he'd have never agreed to interviews with her if she wasn't going to go pro-Ram.

 

[TeaTime]

It is a long held truth that when someone commits a crime, they tell someone. This is what PR was talking about. I have spent 60 years in a family full of police detectives and have heard this same thing all my life: "there are always 2 people who know the truth, the perp and someone the perp told."

There are camera angles from that interview which show JR mouthing the words as PR speaks. If JR looked surprised when she said this, it was because she was off script.

 

[TeaTime]

"He didn't mean to kill her, he wrapped her in a blanket." JR, as he laid JBR on the floor at the top of the basement stairs, witnessed by Rev. Haverstock.

"It's an inside job." JR to Arndt as he knelt on the floor near JBR's body and looked down the hall.

"We didn't mean for this to happen." PR to BF on the night of the 26th.

"I didn't kill my baby." PR to officers who were taking her fingerprints, before anyone had ever suggested she did.

"There is someone out there." PR to the world, a week after JBR's murder.

"I have to get to Atlanta, I have an important meeting that I can not miss." JR to officers who overheard him making flight arrangements to leave Boulder within 1/2 hour of finding his murdered daughter's body and when his only 'meeting' was in MI with his other kids for Christmas.

"She looked peaceful" describes JR when recounting the visual image of his murdered daughter's body, after removing one of her hand 'restraints', removing duct tape from her mouth and carrying her stiff, cold and blue body at arm's length upstairs.

"She was just a little bit molested." Nedra to anyone who would listen.

"Well, she was gone, so. . ." BR to DP when explaining why, when he was 10, he excluded his sister in his drawing of his family.

"It looks like JonBenet in a coffin." PR to JR when she viewed the American Girl doll.

"Did I subconsciously weave death into our lives by decorating a Christmas tree in purple?" PR - DOI.

"And, hence." PR in a holiday letter to friends.

"She's six, she's blonde. I am Patsy Ramsey, I am the mother." PR to 911.

"Can you fix this for me?" PR to BF, as if asking her to sew on a button.

"I didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it and we didn't know who did it." PR to investigator in April 1997.

Then add the whole "Santa fed her pineapple, with a too big spoon from the good silver collection" utter nonsense, tossing best friends under the bus because they were 'jealous' of PR, naming innocent people in their book as suspects, going on a talk show with an attorney to do damage control, and ending with. . .

"I sneaked downstairs after everyone was asleep, I just had to get that thing out." BR, putting himself downstairs at the time of the head blow.

It was all covered up. But, so what? The Ramseys forgave the murderer on national television 7 days after she was killed in their home, They just wanted know "why?" despite PR promising, "we will find you."

 

[TeaTime]

Another recent weird quote is the one PW is using as a blurb for her new book.

“Do it for justice. If you affirm either Patsy or I was involved, then go ahead and write it.”
— JOHN RAMSEY TO WOODWARD, 2009

. Immediately took me back to OJ's If I Did It.

Sounds like a threat to me as in "go ahead, write that you think PR or I were involved for 'justice' and we'll see you in court."

 

[singularity]

"It looks like JonBenet in a coffin." PR to JR when she viewed the American Girl doll.

"Did I subconsciously weave death into our lives by decorating a Christmas tree in purple?" PR - DOI.

Patsy was bat poop crazy.

 

[PositiveLight]

"He didn't mean to kill her, he wrapped her in a blanket." JR, as he laid JBR on the floor at the top of the basement stairs, witnessed by Rev. Haverstock.

"It's an inside job." JR to Arndt as he knelt on the floor near JBR's body and looked down the hall.

"We didn't mean for this to happen." PR to BF on the night of the 26th.

"I didn't kill my baby." PR to officers who were taking her fingerprints, before anyone had ever suggested she did.

"There is someone out there." PR to the world, a week after JBR's murder.

"I have to get to Atlanta, I have an important meeting that I can not miss." JR to officers who overheard him making flight arrangements to leave Boulder within 1/2 hour of finding his murdered daughter's body and when his only 'meeting' was in MI with his other kids for Christmas.

"She looked peaceful" describes JR when recounting the visual image of his murdered daughter's body, after removing one of her hand 'restraints', removing duct tape from her mouth and carrying her stiff, cold and blue body at arm's length upstairs.

"She was just a little bit molested." Nedra to anyone who would listen.

"Well, she was gone, so. . ." BR to DP when explaining why, when he was 10, he excluded his sister in his drawing of his family.

"It looks like JonBenet in a coffin." PR to JR when she viewed the American Girl doll.

"Did I subconsciously weave death into our lives by decorating a Christmas tree in purple?" PR - DOI.

"And, hence." PR in a holiday letter to friends.

"She's six, she's blonde. I am Patsy Ramsey, I am the mother." PR to 911.

"Can you fix this for me?" PR to BF, as if asking her to sew on a button.

"I didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it and we didn't know who did it." PR to investigator in April 1997.

Then add the whole "Santa fed her pineapple, with a too big spoon from the good silver collection" utter nonsense, tossing best friends under the bus because they were 'jealous' of PR, naming innocent people in their book as suspects, going on a talk show with an attorney to do damage control, and ending with. . .

"I sneaked downstairs after everyone was asleep, I just had to get that thing out." BR, putting himself downstairs at the time of the head blow.

It was all covered up. But, so what? The Ramseys forgave the murderer on national television 7 days after she was killed in their home, They just wanted know "why?" despite PR promising, "we will find you."

you know one thing that DP didn't ask but should have?
What time was it when you snuck downstairs and how long were you downstairs? To me, those are extremely important questions.

 

[singularity]

you know one thing that DP didn't ask but should have?
What time was it when you snuck downstairs and how long were you downstairs? To me, those are extremely important questions.

Indeed.

The window was left too wide open on that issue.

 

[Heymom]

Patsy was bat poop crazy.

I think PR did not say that in the moment, but thought about it afterward and it sounded nice and dramatic so she included it as theater.

 

[TeaTime]

DP wasn't looking for truth, he was just spinning for the Rs.

 

[Scandigirl]

Scandigirl, that quote came from the press conference the Ramseys gave after the first police interview. I don't have a video but here's what the Daily Camera had to say:

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/05/02-2.html

I included John's remark about solving the case to contrast with his recent statement about how he's said all he has to say, no more interviews, I gotta get back to work. Yep, sounds like someone whose sole mission in life is finding that pesky intruder.

Anyway, that little slip from Patsy - if indeed it was a slip, at the very least it was odd - is one of the things that doesn't fit with BDI imo. Like you said, it's impossible to imagine one parent would be left out of the loop. Of course saying three people know what happened would give away the ruse, I guess! But I do think her comment about "two people" and confession is relevant somehow.

On a similar note, John Douglas (pro-Ramsey) testified in front of the GJ and bragged in his book about how his and Lou Smit's testimony prevented the GJ from indicting. That book came out only a few months before the indictment news broke, haha. Anyway, this quote was interesting to me.
Assuming this is true and he's telling it accurately, does that point to the GJ not thinking Burke was involved? Of course, hypothetically the juror could have said "more than one person" or something similar which wouldn't preclude B. One last rant, how is it this a-hole can violate GJ secrecy in his book and no one says boo, but Mary Lacy went to the Supreme Court to prevent LHP from doing the same in her book? Ugh.
Here's more about that book if you're interested.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/for...rmation-on-the-JonBenet-case-Law-and-Disorder

As for Crazy Aunt Pam's comment about 2 people, I don't specifically know what you're talking about but I'd bet good money she was referring to Fleet and Priscilla White. She was always making cryptic statements in the press about knowing who did it but not wanting to name names, etc. I don't recall how I learned this but they were her pet suspects, likely because JR and PR were feeding her nasty info about them after the friendship ended just like they kept trying to steer the police in that direction. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew the truth, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she's delusional enough to think they're innocent. You'll notice she was the only family member taking a bullet for them in the media whenever they'd let her on screen. Patsy's mom, other sister, dad, etc totally stayed out of it. And there was never a peep from JRs family. Was she media-hungry or the only one stupid enough to get involved. Well, probably both.

Hi DrollForeignFaction, thanks for your (and everyone else's) interesting reply, and thanks also for those links- I'm reading with interest. It's so good of you to source Patsy's "two people" quote directly- I hadn't realised that she actually said "at least two people", which could mean two, or possibly three! Like everything in this case, it's not clear what she meant- frustrating! I might be wrong, of course, but I knew that, as TeaTime says, JR and PR were usually following scripts in their media interviews, and I interpreted it as a sudden, "off script" spontaneous utterance. On the other hand, she was also heavily medicated. I took JR's facial reaction to be a mixture of wonderment and/or vague alarm, but that's only my own impression!

Droll, your quote regarding the GJ indictment and John Douglas is intriguing, too. As I've said, I find it difficult to imagine both JR and PR not being involved absolutely together, but I'm open minded. It's only my own opinion, but since BR's interviews and the CBS show, I am BDI, but trying to work out how it all could have played out on the night, and also who did what in that house.

I'm considering every single option at the moment (although some are more likely than others): 1) BDI, with both JR and PR staging and covering afterwards. 2) BD pretty much all of it, with JR and PR not being involved anywhere near as much as we've all always thought. 3) BR and PR did it together, and JR got involved later on somehow. 4) BDI, but with a friend of a similar age.

Number 4 is the most unrealistic. Could the GJ have been referring to "two people" being BR and a friend of a similar age? I'm thinking of the unexplained two coke cans in BR's bathroom sink, the fact that BR was up in the middle of the night, and the outside security lights were turned off, as well as the unexplained bike tracks leading away from the house... However, I'm rejecting this option, due to no other evidence of either a 5th person (friend who was let in and out) , and anything of that nature would surely have come to light by now. So, back to reality, and focussing on the 3 people in the house- JR, PR and BR.

I'm even wondering if JR and PR weren't necessarily operating together, but that they may have become involved at different times, and had different knowledge about things. Who knows? However, if the evidence shows that JR and PR staged everything together, then that option can also be discounted.

Finally, thanks Droll for transcribing BR's childhood interviews in the other thread- very interesting! If my common sense didn't know better, I might have thought that BR had some input into the contents of the ransom note, as well as the idea of JB being "kidnapped", with his use of the word "possession", and his description of JB as a "valuable possession" that might have been stolen! But, my mind is scrambled with this case, and I'm prone to too many flights of fancy!!

 

[BBB167893]

you know one thing that DP didn't ask but should have?
What time was it when you snuck downstairs and how long were you downstairs? To me, those are extremely important questions.

Maybe someone will ask, PL. That is, if they're dumb enough to pursue their lawsuits.

 

[madeleine]

DP wasn't looking for truth, he was just spinning for the Rs.

Yep and now Wood will be able to brag that BR answered all the questions! no need for police to knock on his door anymore. PFff

 

[madeleine]

Worst type of bullies if you ask me. They have connections, power, money and are arrogant. Starting with Bynum and ending with Wood and their little pets in the DA office.

 

[madeleine]

I respected Wood because he is a good lawyer. BUT the fact that he used ML's stupidity and fear to his advantage sickens me.

 

[Userid]

you know one thing that DP didn't ask but should have?
What time was it when you snuck downstairs and how long were you downstairs? To me, those are extremely important questions.

Absolutely -- how in the world do you not ask that?