DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

[DexterMorgan]

So it seem pops may have been told to have JW do the drop off.

Why not a courier. Why would DW trust a family associate who may become skeptical and start asking questions.

Was he just lucky and caught the most gullible employee ever. Any other employee like the accountant would have waited to be face to face before handing over that money. Jmo

 

[1&2&3]

That would mean he lied again since he claimed he happened to have one in his car.

Oops, I missed that! Okay, so he carried the envelope in his car and was prepared.

Sounds a bit fishy to me, but who am I to say?! :blushing:

 

[kammiemc]

Oops, I missed that! Okay, so he carried the envelope in his car and was prepared.

Sounds a bit fishy to me, but who am I to say?! :blushing:

It's really fishy and probably not true. I doubt even an accountant on his first day would be so casual and two hand off $40k from his pockets to a 28-year-old driver who had been on the job as driver for just six weeks. The bank would have given him an envelope or something to hold the money, so he would have had to take out it of that and put in pockets and know ahead of time that JW was going to have a bag in which to carry the cash. But, even then, why not keep it in the envelope? And if the accountant actually did get money from the safe at AIW instead of the bank, as some had suggested, I'm sure he would have had an envelope on hand to put it in before handing off to the driver. Accountants are usually pretty buttoned up.

 

[katydid23]

In the SW return of the house, I noticed they recovered food in addition to the pizza and crusts. I've been curious about that. Was it from the kitchen or somewhere else? Then on the SW return for the BMW, they recovered receipts for Arby's and Jimmy John's. Now I'm wondering if there is a connection?

If they had a receipt for an Arby's roast beef sammie in JW's car, and a wrapper from the same, in the kitchen trash, JW would be in :jail: already, imo.

 

[blessedlife]

Is longtime next door neighbors an exaggeration?

IMO JMO, if you deem as believable the clearly stated account of an investigative journalist who did deep research/interviews to determine that JW and DW lived feet away from each other for years, then, no, it's not an exaggeration. (Though the journalists article, of which he expounded on in his quote, is approved for this discussion, I don't know for sure if the specific link to his quote is approved, or I would include.)

<modsnip>

So, even if you take the simple public info loosely and leave open the possibility that the young men could come and go in the two apts, this info only supports (certainly doesn't conflict with) the journalist's determination.

<modsnip>

Coincidence? If so, a pretty strange one.

Why can't the "coincidence" be one for JW? What if he's sitting around saying "what are the odds that my boss was murdered by a guy I used to live next door to!"


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[katydid23]

It's really fishy and probably not true. I doubt even an accountant on his first day would be so casual and two hand off $40k from his pockets to a 28-year-old driver who had been on the job as driver for just six weeks. The bank would have given him an envelope or something to hold the money, so he would have had to take out it of that and put in pockets and know ahead of time that JW was going to have a bag in which to carry the cash. But, even then, why not keep it in the envelope? And if the accountant actually did get money from the safe at AIW instead of the bank, as some had suggested, I'm sure he would have had an envelope on hand to put it in before handing off to the driver. Accountants are usually pretty buttoned up.

Surely JW had to know that the detectives were going to talk to the accountant. How far off the true story is JW going to veer, knowing that the acct. will give them the facts? I don't think the story we have heard about the meeting with the accountant is that far off from what the accountant said as well. JMO

 

[BondGirl]

It's really fishy and probably not true. I doubt even an accountant on his first day would be so casual and two hand off $40k from his pockets to a 28-year-old driver who had been on the job as driver for just six weeks. The bank would have given him an envelope or something to hold the money, so he would have had to take out it of that and put in pockets and know ahead of time that JW was going to have a bag in which to carry the cash. But, even then, why not keep it in the envelope? And if the accountant actually did get money from the safe at AIW instead of the bank, as some had suggested, I'm sure he would have had an envelope on hand to put it in before handing off to the driver. Accountants are usually pretty buttoned up.

Yeah, who is more likely to have manilla envelopes? AIW office, Accountant - not JW.

 

[katydid23]

I think he texted because he feared DW and helpers might be dumb and pick up a call from him.

Didn't we hear that he tried calling as well? That is what I thought was reported. IIRC

 

[BondGirl]

Surely JW had to know that the detectives were going to talk to the accountant. How far off the true story is JW going to veer, knowing that the acct. will give them the facts? I don't think the story we have heard about the meeting with the accountant is that far off from what the accountant said as well. JMO

I think he felt LE would embrace him as son of a retired cop and trusted employee and was shocked they took his phone and got SW for his car. He wasn't prepared to answer question about red bag. He's been able to wear the label of the "good guy" for a long time and may have taken advantage for that before this incident.

 

[yepitsme]

Is longtime next door neighbors an exaggeration?

IMO JMO, if you deem as believable the clearly stated account of an investigative journalist who did deep research/interviews to determine that JW and DW lived feet away from each other for years, then, no, it's not an exaggeration. (Though the journalists article, of which he expounded on in his quote, is approved for this discussion, I don't know for sure if the specific link to his quote is approved, or I would include.)

<modsnip>

So, even if you take the simple public info loosely and leave open the possibility that the young men could come and go in the two apts, this info only supports (certainly doesn't conflict with) the journalist's determination.

<modsnip>

Coincidence? If so, a pretty strange one.

At first it was 340 feet away. Then it was next door. Then it was a few feet away. Which is it?

 

[DexterMorgan]

With this discussion back and forth on DW and JW, the money, and the red bag, something occurred to me. Why did the accountant just pull the money out of his pockets and hand it to JW? Why didn't he put it in a envelope and be more professional about it?

If JW was told to pick up a package and bring it to SS, four wads of money doesn't make a package. Perhaps SS figured his accountant would have the money sealed in an envelope. It does seem strange to hand that much loose money over to a kid. Yes, JW was/is still a kid - at his age he has no formal job skills or training and his interest is in a field that is out of his financial reach. JMO.

JW doesn't have pockets to put this money in as the accountant probably had a sports coat on, so he puts it in the red bag. After he finds out he is to leave the money in the car, he realizes he doesn't want to leave his red bag. At this point, he stops somewhere
to purchase the envelope.

Sounds like he knew about the package contents before going to see what type of package that he was expected to deliver.

 

[yepitsme]

Yeah, who is more likely to have manilla envelopes? AIW office, Accountant - not JW.

Why wouldn't JW have an envelope? Its not such an exotic thing.

 

[kammiemc]

So it seem pops may have been told to have JW do the drop off.

Why not a courier. Why would DW trust a family associate who may become skeptical and start asking questions.

I know, why is JW so central to this whole thing?

So I was asking myself, okay, let's pretend JW didn't exist. How would DW have gotten the money?

DW could hold the family hostage and demand that SS free up funds from various locations, but how would he collect those funds without raising attention to the situation?

He could:

a) drive SS to bank and let SS go into bank to get funds, at which point, SS would expose the situation. Bad plan as that's a gamble.

b) drive SS to AIW and let SS collect funds from accountant, at which point SS would expose the situation. Bad plan as that's a gamble.

c) he could tell accountant that he has family hostage and bring the money and he'll set them free. Bad plan as LE would likely be notified.

c) he could hire a courier to go to accountant, pick up package and then drop off on porch or elsewhere. Good plan. Except, the accountant would confirm the destination address and get suspicious that the courier was being asked to drop off at the house. (This is for SS who is preparing the dojo!) Also, the courier couldn't cover for the hostage situation and make the accountant feel comfortable that nothing fishy was going on.) Also, the accountant would be sure that the courier would deliver to directly to SS and get a signature. The accountant would track the delivery.

All of those are quite risky, as would be to enlist SS's driver/assistant to do the picking up and dropping off, knowing that person could easily become suspicious and raise concerns to the accountant, or at least let the accountant know that SS was at home. Or, that person could insist upon delivering the package directly to SS. Or might question, why the car? Or, might walk around the house.

SO, JW was actually really important to this crime. Only he, the driver/assistant, would be able to innocently pick up and drop off cash at any place without raising enough suspicion that the accountant would immediately drive to SS's house or contact LE. And, it's perfect, because he would even be able to maintain his innocence to SS. He is just following SS's instructions.

But SS seems like a pretty smart man. I bet he caught on. I wonder if he let that be known or pretended otherwise. I wonder which would have been the more dangerous move? He might have thought that by telling JW that he knew JW was in on it, JW might have pulled the plug if he any kind of moral code after realizing that the family and VF were being hurt more than he thought. Maybe he pled with JW and that's why JW was crying.

 

[Carolyn1963]

Would BA just hand four bundles, $40,000, without offering an envelope or one of their money bags? My husband and I never walk out of a bank flashing cash.

 

[katydid23]

I think he felt LE would embrace him as son of a retired cop and trusted employee and was shocked they took his phone and got SW for his car. He wasn't prepared to answer question about red bag. He's been able to wear the label of the "good guy" for a long time and may have taken advantage for that before this incident.

I don't know about that. As the son of a cop , imo, he would KNOW they would look at him and his phone. Which is why I highly doubt he would have texted that $ pic if he was in the middle of stealing it and involved in the home invasion. JMO

 

[jjenny]

Yeah, who is more likely to have manilla envelopes? AIW office, Accountant - not JW.

I have envelopes and I am not an accountant.

 

[blessedlife]

At first it was 340 feet away. Then it was next door. Then it was a few feet away. Which is it?

They shared bunk beds.....


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[katydid23]

I know, why is JW so central to this whole thing?

So I was asking myself, okay, let's pretend JW didn't exist. How would DW have gotten the money?

DW could hold the family hostage and demand that SS free up funds from various locations, but how would he collect those funds without raising attention to the situation?

He could:

a) drive SS to bank and let SS go into bank to get funds, at which point, SS would expose the situation. Bad plan as that's a gamble.

b) drive SS to AIW and let SS collect funds from accountant, at which point SS would expose the situation. Bad plan as that's a gamble.

c) he could tell accountant that he has family hostage and bring the money and he'll set them free. Bad plan as LE would likely be notified.

c) he could hire a courier to go to accountant, pick up package and then drop off on porch or elsewhere. Good plan. Except, the accountant would confirm the destination address and get suspicious that the courier was being asked to drop off at the house. (This is for SS who is preparing the dojo!) Also, the courier couldn't cover for the hostage situation and make the accountant feel comfortable that nothing fishy was going on.) Also, the accountant would be sure that the courier would deliver to directly to SS and get a signature. The accountant would track the delivery.

All of those are quite risky, as would be to enlist SS's driver/assistant to do the picking up and dropping off, knowing that person could easily become suspicious and raise concerns to the accountant, or at least let the accountant know that SS was at home. Or, that person could insist upon delivering the package directly to SS. Or might question, why the car? Or, might walk around the house.

SO, JW was actually really important to this crime. Only he, the driver/assistant, would be able to innocently pick up and drop off cash at any place without raising enough suspicion that the accountant would immediately drive to SS's house or contact LE. And, it's perfect, because he would even be able to maintain his innocence to SS. He is just following SS's instructions.

But SS seems like a pretty smart man. I bet he caught on. I wonder if he let that be known or pretended otherwise. I wonder which would have been the more dangerous move? He might have thought that by telling JW that he knew JW was in on it, JW might have pulled the plug if he any kind of moral code after realizing that the family and VF were being hurt more than he thought. Maybe he pled with JW and that's why JW was crying.

I think you might be over thinking it a bit. Are you saying that DW planned to spend the night and have money delivered from the bank the next morning? Why wouldn't he just break in very early in the AM, and skip the all night sleep over portion?

If JW had not been available, SS could have worked something else out. Couriers , for one example. I am sure he used them in his various businesses. JMO

 

[BondGirl]

I think he was frazzled. I don't know that he expected the S family to die and the house to be burned. He may have been in shock at how bad it got, upset with DW and Co. and was expecting to skate by since his Dad's a cop. I don't think he was at ALL prepared for what happened with LE when he arrived at the scene of the fire as the "trusted employee" / "son of a cop".

 

[katydid23]

I think he was frazzled. I don't know that he expected the S family to die and the house to be burned. He may have been in shock at how bad it got, upset with DW and Co. and was expecting to skate by since his Dad's a cop. I don't think he was at ALL prepared for what happened with LE when he arrived at the scene of the fire as the "trusted employee" / "son of a cop".

If JW really knew DW, as next door neighbors, then he knew that DW threatened to slice up an infant with a knife, threatened to kill his family, beat up his girlfriends, etc etc. So why would he be so surprised the family died? What would he think was going to happen in a home invasion where the intruder is not wearing a mask? His Dad was a cop---he knows what's up.