Deputies: Grandmother killed by dog while babysitting

[Reader]

Was there only 1 baby? I sure hope no children saw this happening..

From the OP link:

The three children are ages 1 to 12..........

He said the oldest grandchild was in another room when the attack happened and then found the dog on her [grand]mother. She tried to help her grandmother, but couldn’t get the dog to stop, so she gathered the younger children in the bedroom and called her dad for help.

The father called a neighbor, and the children met the neighbor outside and stayed at the neighbor’s home until help came.

 

[tlcya]

Must have been so scary for the kids. The twelve year old seems to have kept it together for siblings and acted quickly. Good Girl. Acted responsibly got the siblings out.

Bless these kids

 

[Nova]

Just a slightly relevant anecdote: one of my closest friends got an English bull mastiff.

On the one hand, since she is a single woman living alone, I am glad she has the company and the protection. (She is British and will not own a gun.)

On the other, however, it has made it impossible to visit her at her house. One must sit almost perfectly still unless one is moving in slow motion so as to not to agitate the dog. One doesn't dare touch my friend. It's impossible to relax and have a good time.

So we entertain our friend at our house, but even that's a problem because she has to get home to take care of the dog. My cat isn't fond of strangers, but he also isn't big enough to kill anyone.

I'm not saying she was wrong to get the dog, as the two of them have been inseparable for a decade. But for those of you who open your homes to potentially lethal canines, please understand that the rest of don't love you any less, we just don't have your training or confidence.

 

[Sonya610]

Yes, please start a thread on training!!! I would absolutely LOVE to know more than I do. I'm blessed with some very compliant and easy-going dogs, but they're big, and they're dogs, and things happen...training *me* would be really good!

Please?

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Haha! I am very easy with my dogs! Tis a mystery how I survived so long! A dog should have "snapped" on me ages ago.

Having said that, pups need guidance as do new adults fitting in, but once they understand the basic rules it goes on auto-pilot, dogs want harmony and stability and they are way more democratic than the whole "alpha dog" thing implies. Dogs do NOT like chaos, insecurity, or aggression within the pack.

The whole alpha dog thing implies dogs think humans are canine. Dogs KNOW we are not canine, we don't look or smell or act like like canines. The whole "dogs think humans are canine pack leaders" is simply idiocy.

I lay out my human rules (don't run out the gate, kill or seriously harm other pack members, pee in the house *unless you are the blind/deaf cocker spaniel* or steal food off my plate/off the counter when I told you I was paying attention, etc...) and I let my Alpha Dogs do their thing in the canine realm (as long as no canines are hurt).

Human/Canine balance of power, strong dogs and the smart humans that understand strong dogs. That is perfect harmony.

Great video below (slow download, was on youtube but copyright issues got it pulled, strong alpha dogs doing what they do best legally):

http://israeldogs.com/jwvideo/greatdogattacks.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

Haha! I am very easy with my dogs! Tis a mystery how I survived so long! A dog should have "snapped" on me ages ago.

Having said that, pups need guidance as do new adults fitting in, but once they understand the basic rules it goes on auto-pilot, dogs want harmony and stability and they are way more democratic than the whole "alpha dog" thing implies. Dogs do NOT like chaos, insecurity, or aggression within the pack.

The whole alpha dog thing implies dogs think humans are canine. Dogs KNOW we are not canine, we don't look or smell or act like like canines. The whole "dogs think humans are canine pack leaders" is simply idiocy.

I lay out my human rules (don't run out the gate, kill or seriously harm other pack members, pee in the house *unless you are the blind/deaf cocker spaniel* or steal food off my plate/off the counter when I told you I was paying attention, etc...) and I let my Alpha Dogs do their thing in the canine realm (as long as no canines are hurt).

Human/Canine balance of power, strong dogs and the smart humans that understand strong dogs. That is perfect harmony.

Great video below (slow download, was on youtube but copyright issues got it pulled, strong alpha dogs doing what they do best legally):

http://israeldogs.com/jwvideo/greatdogattacks.html

Deleted...

 

[Sonya610]

Deleted...

Deleted? Do explain.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Deleted? Do explain.

It was just about how I was practically raised in a zoo and have always had a way with animals. I'm good at picking up subtle cues, posture, etc...I give respect and subtly demand it be returned.

Was just trying to say, some people are just better at it than others. Some people have no business having a dog, let alone a big one.

Then I talked about a doberman that I adopted from a rescue, I was able to speak to his prior owner. The poor dog was scared of his own shadow, he was beaten into accepting his prior owner as the "alpha" his words....not mine. It took quite some time to build that dogs confidence back up. Who is their right mind would buy a Doberman, beat it silly, only to have it cower all the time?

 

[Sonya610]

Was just trying to say, some people are just better at it than others. Some people have no business having a dog, let alone a big one.

Then I talked about a doberman that I adopted from a rescue, I was able to speak to his prior owner. The poor dog was scared of his own shadow, he was beaten into accepting his prior owner as the "alpha" his words....not mine. It took quite some time to build that dogs confidence back up. Who is their right mind would buy a Doberman, beat it silly, only to have it cower all the time?

Yeah I know. Some people enjoy dogs because they can "do whatever they like to them".

I understand, I saw extreme starvation and signs of abuse too, but hey they were just dogs, lesser animals. :furious:

 

[rollinginit]

Now if the dog LOVED someone dearly for years and then suddenly bit their face off while the person was sitting quietly that would signal potential mental problems aka "insane" dog behavior.

RSBM for space

Just wanted to jump off of your post. I do some work in GSD rescues and such and not too long ago, we had a GSD (getting up there in years) bite a person pretty bad. When he was turned in to the rescue, we noticed that most of the time....he was a sweetheart. He had his moments though. We finally got a vet spec. to see him and come to find out.......he was having seizures.

In a dog, it can be hard to tell sometimes when they are having seizures. When they come out of them...they can be very violent/unpredictable. It took a little while of us tracking his seizures and adjusting his medication, but he was fine after that. His foster mom ended up adopting him. Sadly, he died last year from Hemangiosarcoma (a serious killer of the GSD breed)

I always advise people....if your dog has always been a nice, loving dog that just attacks or shows aggression for no reason one day, PLEASE, at least take the dog to the vet and get a full workup done on the dog. Check the eyes (some dogs slowly go blind) check for seizues, check for diabetes, check for tumors or teeth problems.

Just my 2cents

 

[Linda7NJ]

RSBM for space

Just wanted to jump off of your post. I do some work in GSD rescues and such and not too long ago, we had a GSD (getting up there in years) bite a person pretty bad. When he was turned in to the rescue, we noticed that most of the time....he was a sweetheart. He had his moments though. We finally got a vet spec. to see him and come to find out.......he was having seizures.

In a dog, it can be hard to tell sometimes when they are having seizures. When they come out of them...they can be very violent/unpredictable. It took a little while of us tracking his seizures and adjusting his medication, but he was fine after that. His foster mom ended up adopting him. Sadly, he died last year from Hemangiosarcoma (a serious killer of the GSD breed)

I always advise people....if your dog has always been a nice, loving dog that just attacks or shows aggression for no reason one day, PLEASE, at least take the dog to the vet and get a full workup done on the dog. Check the eyes (some dogs slowly go blind) check for seizues, check for diabetes, check for tumors or teeth problems.

Just my 2cents

Excellent advice! I'm pretty snappy myself when I don't feel well.




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[Cracka*Jaxx]

You are serious? My kids rode their dogs....whether they were asleep or not...

Are YOU serious? This isn't anything to be proud about! If one of the children were attacked, would the dog be blamed for 'suddenly' snapping? It's the responsibility of the adult, who should be exhibiting more intelligence than the children or the dog, to provide a safe environment for all of them.

 

[rain88]

Why would you own such an aggressive breed? If every human that comes in contact with it has to show alpha behavior or risk attack?

 

[popsicle]

We had a guy from Anderson windows come to the house. I had my Doberman at the time. Btw she was fine as long as I let the person in the house, car etc. that's the way she was trained. ( god help anyone entering without permission) so the guy is demonstrating on the window he brought .....the ease the window opens and closes, he's so excited. Im sitting on the sofa and hes standing about 7 feet infront of me. He lunges and I mean lunges toward me with the window in one hand while reaching toward me motioning for me to get up with the other. My dog leaped to her feet, jumped between us and growled at him so viciously that he jumped back falling to the floor screaming like a girl. Had he continued to move toward me, I have zero doubt he would have been viciously attacked....all I had to do to get her to stop was command her to.



My dog did exactly what she was trained to do! IMO he wasn't very dog smart!

:floorlaugh:

 

[popsicle]

I have known many many rescuers and dog show people that owned, bred, or fostered in hundreds and hundreds of dogs. I have heard many PERSONAL stories from knowledgeable people, I trust the first hand accounts of real dog knowledgeable people far more than "Internet stories with an agenda".

If people can't read (or don't try to read) signals then they may think a dog "just snapped". People are often just plain stupid when it comes to dogs.

In this case if the grandmother rarely babysit it is possible the 1 year old baby may have started getting very stressed, if the baby started crying frantically and sounded REALLY distressed the dog could easily have gotten concerned and agitated.

Baby crying in an unusually stressed/frantic way + Stranger is handling/doing things to frantic baby = Stranger is upsetting/harming baby. Just because people people do not UNDERSTAND the dog's logic or motivation does not mean they are crazy.

This video is another example, 7 million hits because people think "it is soooo cute! Dog and baby singing together!" If this dog ever suddenly bites this baby then the owners will surely say "Oh my god, the dog just snapped! He loved the baby so much and then one day he just went crazy!". In fact it is obvious that the dog doesn't like the baby but the parents can't see that, they only see what they want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyk1HXvCNks

I am so glad you mentioned this. I remember when I first saw that video. I had my daughter watch it too pointing out how scary it was because that dog it going to attack that baby if they aren't careful.

 

[Nova]

I am so glad you mentioned this. I remember when I first saw that video. I had my daughter watch it too pointing out how scary it was because that dog it going to attack that baby if they aren't careful.

Maybe it's only because I'm seeing it in the context of this thread, but I don't understand how anyone (read the comments) could miss the fact that that Husky is distressed! Even the woman behind the camera keeps saying, "I think maybe he's had enough," while doing nothing.

 

[Sonya610]

On the other, however, it has made it impossible to visit her at her house. One must sit almost perfectly still unless one is moving in slow motion so as to not to agitate the dog. One doesn't dare touch my friend. It's impossible to relax and have a good time.

...please understand that the rest of don't love you any less, we just don't have your training or confidence.

Yeah mine is a mastiff (another breed) and would be like that if men came into the house (but not the ladies....he loves most all women because they are softer, act adoring, and tell him how handsome he is, they are not potential competitors that will challenge his alpha status). Personally if I were your friend I would put the dog in another room when people he is not comfortable around come over, that is too much stress on the dog and the people and if you can't even move then obviously it is risky.

You can be sure if you acted "alpha" with your friends dog he would "correct" you very quickly. A lot of the dominant protective breeds, especially mastiff/LGD's will not tolerate someone other than their owner/s getting "alpha" with them.

 

[Nova]

Yeah mine is a mastiff (another breed) and would be like that if men came into the house (but not the ladies....he loves most all women because they are softer, act adoring, and tell him how handsome he is, they are not potential competitors that will challenge his alpha status). Personally if I were your friend I would put the dog in another room when people he is not comfortable around come over, that is too much stress on the dog and the people and if you can't even move then obviously it is risky.

You can be sure if you acted "alpha" with your friends dog he would "correct" you very quickly. A lot of the dominant protective breeds, especially mastiff/LGD's will not tolerate someone other than their owner/s getting "alpha" with them.

Thanks for the analysis. I wouldn't dream of acting "alpha" with anybody else's pet.

I should add that I moved to another city 8 years ago, so maybe my friend was just trying to get her dog used to having company. From what she tells me, it hasn't worked, but she and that dog love each other with a ferocity seldom seen. I didn't mean to say I begrudge her her best friend.

 

[21merc7]

I really get upset reading about dogs killing people. Very depressing. This poor woman and her family.

Having said that, I'm still a firm believer in all dogs can and most likely will at some point bite, even well trained ones. Kill is a bit further, I haven't really gotten to deep in that subject.

I've had several friends that were attacked as children. One was just a young boy playing on a beach, a dog runs up from somewhere it was out of sight before, and attacked him. No one knows why.

Parents raised all types of dogs, so I've always been around them. My dearest passed last year, she was getting snappy but it was because she was sick. The older a dog gets, the more "snappy" it gets. Sometimes they are in pain, could be arthritis, could be cancer, could be spleen issues, you never know. Could be they have a headache. If they feel badly, they may bite.

A neighbor had a Lhasa Apso. He was a really cute little white ball of fur and moustache. She was in her 60's and had many dogs in her life. She always said, "Well, he's never bit, but that doesn't mean he won't. He is a dog, dogs bite." She was right. We had him outside with us one day when a known neighbor came up and bent over to pet him. He bit him. No one knows why, other than the dog was being grumpy that day, so she had him out for a minute or two longer than usual so he could soak up the sun and all of our attention.

In short, a dog is a dog, even well trained. If something triggers for the dog, then it does, even if it is the best dog in the world before. It is the owner's responsibility and liability. So, when my beloved dog passed, I decided to get no more. Seen too many lawsuits and dogs put down when they were being provoked, not just when the bit out of the blue. Plus I live in apartments, not many allow any kind of dog anymore. I sure do miss having a furry friend, but it is best since I work all day and do not have many hours to devote to loving, training, spending play time, energy time. That is the best decision I can make for any other pet that really needs a good and responsible home.

 

[Sonya610]

A neighbor had a Lhasa Apso. He was a really cute little white ball of fur and moustache. She was in her 60's and had many dogs in her life. She always said, "Well, he's never bit, but that doesn't mean he won't. He is a dog, dogs bite." She was right. We had him outside with us one day when a known neighbor came up and bent over to pet him. He bit him.

Lhasa Apsos are rather infamous for aggression/snapping/very dominant temperaments (but when they bite it doesn't make the papers, kwim?).

50 million pet dogs in this country, on average dogs kill 16 humans a year. Compare that to 16,000 humans killed by other humans per year.

Here is an example of a dog "snapping", in fact the dog is well trained and uncomfortable and constantly sending signals that say "I do not want conflict, I am not comfortable, I am trying to be nice but this is not okay, you are getting too close and being threatening".

The dog may have looked submissive by licking his lips and looking away but that was an attempt to avoid conflict because the dog was feeling threatened and getting nervous and trying to calm down the situation before something bad happened. The human saw it as "submissive and friendly". When the guy accidentally goes "alpha on the dog", the dog reacts and bites his face.

Sadly the police officer didn't read his own dog's signals. That isn't a crazy dog that "snapped", that happened because of people doing stupid things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLnjiISsOo

 

[Herding Cats]

Sonya, that's a great vid for a few reasons - the dog is signalling a lot, but neither the cop or reporter pick it up...the cop was very quick in bringing the dog 'down', and the dog complied with his pack leader's demands. The reporter came in far closer than I would ever do, especially to a GSD and K9, and did it completely wrong - loomed over the dog while putting his hands on the dog's neck.

Not the dog's fault whatsoever...

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