Discussion: Is TH responsible for Kyron's disappearance? #2(POLL ADDED)

[gardeness]

She is not yet responsible for his disappearance for me, as long as she is not a POI or a SUSPECT.
Until LE says she is, I am not even gonna speculate anymore.
I don't put much into anything the family has to say about her anymore.
It seems to me, she had the responsibility to look after Kyron the most, and none of them seem to know much about her. Even her own husband. Desiree's answer on Dateline to the question Was she a good Mother? Desiree said, I would't say she would replace me, obviously, but she definately gave him what he needed.
LE hasn't sent them out to hound Terri. They are doing that on their own because of their own beliefs. That says plenty to me about all their characters.

bbm

I don't understand why she couldn't just answer the question...clearly, Terri had the bulk of parenting Kyron, and he looked very well cared for...

 

[BeanE]

At the June 18 press conference, Jason Gates said that Terri is "the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," and LE has not modified that statement at any time afterwards.

It's only an assumption that TP saw Kyron after Kyron was last seen with Terri.

I disagree that as well as other things you list in your post above are assumptions. I think they are opinions.

We are all free here to look at and analyze the information available, and to form opinions about what it more likely and less likely to be accurate, what may be true or untrue, factual or not, accurate or not.

 

[Adrienne37]

Some seem to forget that it wasn't just one polygraph that Terri flunked but THREE including one that she got up and walked away from. Some posts seem to suggest that LE has lied to Terri about the results of her polygraph. If that were the case, did they lie to her all three times? Has LE actually abandoned their investigation because Desiree has told them unconditionally that Terri is involved, therefore, they must do any and everything to arrest her? I don't think that is the case at all. As I have stated repeatedly, Terri is where she is at, i.e., the center of this investigation, because of Terri, no one else. She has no one to blame but herself. I'm not sure how people can excuse or justify her behavior and think that it's okay to attempt to hire someone to kill your husband or start a "sexting" relationship with a man while your stepson, the one you have supposedly raised, is missing; but obviously she has supporters out there and I guess that's a whatever floats your boat type situation. JMO.

 

[STEADFAST]

I disagree that as well as other things you list in your post above are assumptions. I think they are opinions.

We are all free here to look at and analyze the information available, and to form opinions about what it more likely and less likely to be accurate, what may be true or untrue, factual or not, accurate or not.

Well opinions or assumptions, what I mean is that there isn't information like "Terri was seen shopping that morning" for the people who think she's guilty to have to discount.

 

[STEADFAST]

IMO, would LE risk publically stating that a minor was the last known person to have seen Kyron? Could that potentially put the minor in "danger" if he potentially saw more?

IMO, it does not state TH was the "last known person to see Kyron" but "before he disappeared"

All they would have to say is that Terri is not the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared. They wouldn't have to say anything about a minor.

 

[M-pathetic]

OT--(sorry, newbie!)--but since you're a mod: When I attempted to click the "thanks" button for your post, I received (as so often) a "message from webpage!" or something similar, and then my name is not added to the thanks at the bottom of the post. Explanation (anyone)? TIA!

 

[1Chump]

All they would have to say is that Terri is not the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared. They wouldn't have to say anything about a minor.

I would agree if his parents had not allowed him to be interviewed publically. But now he is one of two named publically.

IMO, the only way for LE to state it was someone other than TH would be to name the person. Otherwise, the speculation would be on the minor even if LE tried to say it was not him.

 

[BringKyronHome]

BBM: She wasn't though...not until TP is discounted. HE was, and he sure isn't guilty. So, maybe being the last one to him isn't necessary the "AH HA" moment we are looking for.

PS was his backpack left in the classroom? I believe I remember reading that.

Originally Posted by BeanE
Here's what TP said. These are my own transcriptions, because I've seen a lot of inaccuracies in the transcriptions in news articles and on the net. I only trust myself for video transcriptions. Your mileage may vary.

Video 1:

- I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never did see him after that.

- And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Miss Porter's like it's alright calm down, calm down she's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she's like alright I'm gonna leave and she left.

Video 2 (reporter says TP saw Kyron around 8:45):

- And he walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi, Kyron, and he's like, Hi. I'm gonna go see this cool one. Electric one. And I'm like, Alright, bye. And that's the last time I saw him. He never did make it back to class.

Video 1: http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/int...id=VIDURVNWS08

Video 2: http://www.kptv.com/video/23842579/index.html

I KNOW!!!

TP's statement drives me nuts...especially since LE has basically told us that they believe he is mistaken. I hate the reason that they gave "there were no subs in the class that day'...because DER! Any 8yo is going to see an adult at school as a sub...even though it was a parent volunteer, so on one hand I wanna think LE is stating this because they are trying to keep some facts out of the public, but on the other, finding out about the student tours on Thursday, leaves more room for TP to be 'mistaken.' So at this moment I'm trying to exclude TP from the mix.

TK on the other hand is an interesting guy. We can't really figure out what time he saw Kyron based on his comments...but knowing he saw him with other kids without Terri I think does support the after 8:45 timeline.

And the original timline that said he was seen at around 9 and in the late morning hours by someone other than Terri...and then it switched to 8:45 by Terri, is interesting to me too...makes me wonder if it's these kids that saw him, but it also makes me wonder if it was the chaperone too...because of TP's comments.

It's too wishy washy for me right now...so I'm just going to stick with LE right now...

The last KNOWN person to see Kyron was Terri @8:45 (with the caveat that I will not be surprised if we find out later that LE has known all along that Kyron was in the school without Terri for some persiod of time).


Yes his backpack & coat were reported to be in his classroom...this is just one more reason I hate this idea that Terri possibly left with Kyron...Kyron wouldn't have left without his jacket...and besides that...why the heck didn't the teacher become alarmed when Kyron didn't show up at any point while his things were there...

No matter how I slice this, the school looks partially to blame.

Whether this was Terri or some sicko...why in the world did they not double check (procedure or not)...he was there, then gone, his things were still there...appointments don't generally last the full day...why did the school not become alarmed at some point, it just baffles my mind!

This was certainly an unusual day, and all the confusion played a part, whether intentional or coincidental...the bottom line is, common sense should have dictated a follow-up call to someone...even if it wasn't normal procedure...because it was an abnormal day, he was there then not, and his belongings were left behind...

Some more earthshattering news is going to have to come out for me to change that perspective...there is just no way around that for me...I don't give a rats-behind what their normal procedures are, all the excuses in the world will never ever be enough to excuse their neglegence on this!

 

[STEADFAST]

Later in the June 18 press conference (after he has said Terri was the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared) Gates says of Terri, "She's associated with the case because she is the last person to have seen Kyron."
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Briefing-on-new-Kyron-flier-with-stepmom-96685544.html

TP's interview came out before this press conference. I see nothing in it to indicate that TP saw Kyron after Terri saw Kyron. He's just talking about the last time he saw Kyron.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Snipped and bolded by me...

I agree wholeheartedly. If Terri was told she failed the LDT, with Desiree already suspecting her, I can imagine that she would be in a panic and very vocal about everything. If she's innocent, and being told she failed a LDT and Desiree is suspecting her, what should she do? How should she act? She was vocal at first and then distant later. This is reasonable, even predictable behavior, IMHO, of someone who is innocent and not being believed. If she is a sociopath with NPD, I believe she'd have handled it with more finesse. As it stands, I believe she's a troubled woman innocent of this crime.

The leaked reports indicate Terri only failed a portion of her LDT related to the case. If she's responsible, she would've failed more than a portion, as I strongly believe only one person is involved (either a pedophile or Terri). It makes more sense to me that Terri either lied about where she was for a portion of the morning because she was engaged in some illegal or untoward behavior or she knew her alibi sounded flimsy, or LE believed her initial alibi sounded flimsy and lied about her failing that portion of her poly in an effort to gain more information. It is legal for LE to lie about the poly. My third scenario falls in line with BeanE's that Terri didn't fail but showed inconclusive, and LE stretched the truth in an effort to gain information.

MC told us that she was grilled for 6 hours about 1 question and broke down.
-->I'm assuming this was the 'inconclusive result' from her first poly

Kaine told us that Terri left the 2nd poly before being hooked up to the machine, then returned 10 days later to do the 2nd.

Finster told us that she was taking a 2nd poly because she broke down in the first and didn't finish.
--> I'm assuming that Finster is confusing things a bit, but is talking about the same time as Kaine.

Desiree spoke about her not being able to account for her whereabouts that morning.
-->Im assuming this is the 'portion' that may have come up inconclusive or that Terri was told she flunked.

I think Terri took 1 poly, either came up inconclusive or LE couldn't easily verify it...like say driving around town with a cranky toddler.

I think she came back in to do the 2nd, was grilled for 6 hours about her whereabouts, didn't crack, but couldn't handle a poly at that time (all voluntary remember) and then left. Returned 10 days later, and potentially had the same results.

It was after that LE asked for video from the stores.

To me it sounds as though Terri has been clear on her whereabouts all along (thanks Desiree for the confusion) but that for LE didn't like it for some reason: unverifyable OR it came up as elusive or whatever.

Either way, I agree that if the video showed either Kyron in the truck with her, OR her purchasing suspicious items, like a shovel...I'd say her arse would be in jail.

They obviously don't have that...so what time was she at the store, and when is this hour+ of driving around...my guess it was right after leaving Skyline...what time ddo stores open up 10?

Was she driving around partially because what point is there taking a cranky kid out of the a soothing car tide and getting her settled in the house, just to turn around and pack her up a few minutes later to head to the store...makes more sense to hope she takes a nap and is in a better mood to shop when the stores open up and aren't crowded enough to aggrevate her.

I think I went a little off topic...sorry for the ramble...

 

[Dee10]

Didn't her father also say she flunked in the People's Mag. article?

 

[Jo in Calif]

BBM: She wasn't though...not until TP is discounted. HE was, and he sure isn't guilty. So, maybe being the last one to him isn't necessary the "AH HA" moment we are looking for.

PS was his backpack left in the classroom? I believe I remember reading that.

Originally Posted by BeanE
Here's what TP said. These are my own transcriptions, because I've seen a lot of inaccuracies in the transcriptions in news articles and on the net. I only trust myself for video transcriptions. Your mileage may vary.

Video 1:

- I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never did see him after that.

- And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Miss Porter's like it's alright calm down, calm down she's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she's like alright I'm gonna leave and she left.

Video 2 (reporter says TP saw Kyron around 8:45):

- And he walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi, Kyron, and he's like, Hi. I'm gonna go see this cool one. Electric one. And I'm like, Alright, bye. And that's the last time I saw him. He never did make it back to class.

Video 1: http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/int...id=VIDURVNWS08

Video 2: http://www.kptv.com/video/23842579/index.html

I had a little bit of a problem with these two videos. Video #1the reporter called 8yr. old T a 3rd grader. Video #2 reporter called 8yr old T a 2nd grader. T's stories didn't quite seem to mesh, in my opinion, one he was in the hall, when he saw Kyron and one he was down stairs when he saw Kyron. T's GM said T told her he saw Terry leave the school alone, how, in my opinion would he have seen that? We also don't know what T told LE with their interview with him. In my opinion it didn't mesh with the stories that T told in the videos and this is possibly why LE is saying that Terry was the last known person to see him. All this is MOO.

 

[BeanE]

Didn't her father also say she flunked in the People's Mag. article?

Oh let me look that one up. I think you're right. Thank you, Dee.

ETA: Not coming up in the online articles. I think that was only in a print version. Let me see if I can find a thread.

 

[Emeralgem]

Didn't her father also say she flunked in the People's Mag. article?

Yes, he did and IIRC a friend of hers, who was interviewed, also revealed she had failed a poly.....Can't remember the friends name though..Anyone else remember?

 

[BeanE]

Didn't her father also say she flunked in the People's Mag. article?

Oh let me look that one up. I think you're right. Thank you, Dee.

ETA: Not coming up in the online articles. I think that was only in a print version. Let me see if I can find a thread.

Yes, he did and IIRC a friend of hers, who was interviewed, also revealed she had failed a poly.....Can't remember the friends name though..Anyone else remember?

Okay found it. No, he said only that she took it twice, not that she failed it. Same for her friend, Finster - said only she was retaking the poly, I couldn't find any articles on the friend the other day where she said she failed it.

"In addition, her father tells People, police have given Horman at least two polygraph tests (police have not revealed the results), have searched her house more than once, taken her truck twice and interrogated her for up to six hours several times."

If anyone can find an article with anyone other than K&D saying Terri failed LDTs, I'd appreciate it. I also checked Tarver, the first husband of Terri, who mentioned the phone call with Terri's son, but there was nothing about failing LDTs in that article either.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Yes, he did and IIRC a friend of hers, who was interviewed, also revealed she had failed a poly.....Can't remember the friends name though..Anyone else remember?

Yes it was her friend Jayme Finster...She said Terri was going in for a second poly because she broke down in the first.

my opinion is that she has things a tad confused.

Kaine said that she showed up for the 2nd and left before being hooked up.

MC said she was grilled for 6 hours straight on one question.

Her dad said she was interrogated for 6 hours.

I think Finster is wrong a bit...that Terri showed up to do the 2nd poly, but was grilled for 6 hours about that 1 question (that may have been elusive in the first) broke down & left BEFORE doing the 2nd. Making it necessary to return at a later date (for a 3rd time) to do the 2nd poly.

The only reports of Terri flunking are by people that have heard the results FROM Terri. There is a VERY good chance that Terri could have been told by LE that she flunked (whether she did or did not) and there is also a chance that she is just guessing.

One comment she made to Kaine was that LE told her that the pings are wrong, because they are reporting that she was someplace that she wasn't. So to me this says that they are lying to her...or that she may feel as though she is being considered a liar, and must have flunked.

Bottom line is that until LE tells us that she flunked, I think we should not draw that conclusion.

 

[BeanE]

Yes it was her friend Jayme Finster...She said Terri was going in for a second poly because she broke down in the first.

Do you have an article in which Finster says Terri failed a LDT? If so, I'd appreciate a link. I was unable to find any. Only as you said, that she was taking another.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Do you have an article in which Finster says Terri failed a LDT? If so, I'd appreciate a link. I was unable to find any. Only as you said, that she was taking another.

No, I only have that one article that she sais Terri was going in for a second poly because she broke down and didn't finish the first (which I think was when she was SUPPOSED to take her 2nd but wasn't hooked up because she broke down and left).

I think I've only seen K&D say she flunked too...did Mike ever make comments about it...other than that she was grilled for 6 hours on 1 question?

 

[Morag]

....BIG SNIP


TK on the other hand is an interesting guy. We can't really figure out what time he saw Kyron based on his comments...but knowing he saw him with other kids without Terri I think does support the after 8:45 timeline.

And the original timline that said he was seen at around 9 and in the late morning hours by someone other than Terri...and then it switched to 8:45 by Terri, is interesting to me too...makes me wonder if it's these kids that saw him, but it also makes me wonder if it was the chaperone too...because of Tanner's comments.
...Big Snip

This continues to puzzle me. If TK (referenced above) saw Kyron in the gym, he had to have seen him sometime after 8:35, when the buses arrived. I'm not strictly discounting that his parent(s) brought him in earlier, but if he rode the bus, then he had to have seen Kyron in a less than ten minute interval, if Kyron disappeared at 8:45.

While most timelines that day would be a little murky, surely TK knows if he went directly into the gym, and thus saw Kyron during that interval. If he went to his classroom after de-busing, then the time gets to be very brief for him to have seen Kyron prior to 8:45. I believe that the 7th and 8th grade classrooms are at the other end of the building from the gym.

It seems possible that he could have seen the white truck from the bus. So, if Terri was there when TK arrived, he saw the truck, put his book bag in his classroom, walked (directly?) to the gym, and saw Kyron there with his friends, then returned to his classroom before the last bell at 8:45. This timeline is awfully tight for Terri to be the abductor.

http://kezi.com/news/local/181456

 

[Mylou]

Okay found it. No, he said only that she took it twice, not that she failed it. Same for her friend, Finster - said only she was retaking the poly, I couldn't find any articles on the friend the other day where she said she failed it.

"In addition, her father tells People, police have given Horman at least two polygraph tests (police have not revealed the results), have searched her house more than once, taken her truck twice and interrogated her for up to six hours several times."

If anyone can find an article with anyone other than K&D saying Terri failed LDTs, I'd appreciate it. I also checked Tarver, the first husband of Terri, who mentioned the phone call with Terri's son, but there was nothing about failing LDTs in that article either.

This is very interesting, and thanks is not enough!!